Patch 5.2 Official Trailer: The Thunder King

90 Undead Mage
12670
Didn't we team up with Thrall to fix that?

And isn't finding leverage to be used against Hellscream one of their own problems?


It's their problem, but considering that they're considered traitors in all but name to the Horde right now, they're not in a position to be assaulting the Thunder King's fortress. That, and most of em aren't even in Pandaria.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
0
Didn't we team up with Thrall to fix that?

And isn't finding leverage to be used against Hellscream one of their own problems?


It's their problem, but considering that they're considered traitors in all but name to the Horde right now, they're not in a position to be assaulting the Thunder King's fortress. That, and most of em aren't even in Pandaria.


What, even by the blood elves? The ones actively plotting rebellion against Hellscream?

Surely, some of them could make their way over to conspire with the Sunreavers.
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90 Undead Mage
12670
What, even by the blood elves? The ones actively plotting rebellion against Hellscream?

Surely, some of them could make their way over to conspire with the Sunreavers.


They could, yes, but it's unlikely. And there's a big difference between actively plotting and actually being considered traitors.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
0
What, even by the blood elves? The ones actively plotting rebellion against Hellscream?

Surely, some of them could make their way over to conspire with the Sunreavers.


They could, yes, but it's unlikely. And there's a big difference between actively plotting and actually being considered traitors.


How is it unlikely? This is a world where portals occur in every shape and size.

How unlikely would it be that Lor'themar hears of the trolls' suppression? He's got agents everywhere and the problems between Garrosh and Vol'jin aren't exactly secret. How hard would it be for him to reason that A) the trolls and he share a common interest, B) the trolls know how to fight the Zandalari and C) the trolls could be a valuable asset in taking down Hellscream?

How difficult would it be for him to get an agent to the Echo Isles (which have been liberated now, remember), get a few select Headhunters who are intent of finding out what happened to Vol'jin, and portal them back? He could make a deal with them: help him fight the Zandalari and get leverage, he'll help them find Vol'jin.

Boom. Trolls get new lore. Story doesn't exclude anyone. We have an added layer of conflict.

As it stands now, it seems totally weird that the Darkspear, who have had the most interaction with the Zandalari and who have the biggest beef with Hellscream, would be left out of this plot.

I can vaguely buy the "no Darkspear invited to the campaign" excuse. But still, that's a paper plot wall. You could justify the Darkspears' presence on Pandaria any number of ways.

Maybe Lor'themar has them ported in special.

Maybe Vol'jin, not trusting Garrosh, had a detachment of trolls follow him to Pandaria. After all, he made it there on his own.

Maybe a few Darkspear infiltrate the Zandalari ranks and use their ships to get to Pandaria, then escape and meet up with the Sunreavers.
Edited by Enekie on 2/27/2013 2:56 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6685
Simple.
Trolls are in the Horde dog house.

Why would you want to attract Garrosh' ire by allying with the Darkspear within the Horde.
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90 Goblin Shaman
10270
It wasn't that bad :<
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90 Blood Elf Priest
18325
I think from a design perspective, the trailer wasn't that great. They didn't give us the right context/time on each little screen shot so you literally got half a second for an image to barely register before they blipped to the next boss. There wasn't enough time to go "WOAH that is badass!" for any particular boss in all honesty. I noticed that most of my friends woulds ay "WOAH" about things.. that they have seen before in sneak peaks on mmo champion and so were looking for it. It was more a yay about a cameo then actually seeing something that impressed them.

So cut out some of the shots (they had a few that made me wince as it showcased the worst of wow's graphics for longer then things like that bird boss thing you barely got to see), extend the length of the things truly worth viewing so that it actually leaves an impression. I didn't mind the rhyming, though I've always felt his voice was a little TOO bland and a little too 'I am a monk who is moved by nothing'. Even the most tranquil of monks would know that some words are to be said with heat and passion.

The one thing I truly liked about this and what did leave an impression was how they represented the three factions here. The bad guys didn't affect me much, but.. first they show Jaina heading up the alliance with her new look, and Lorethemar heading up the Horde. I felt it very subtley and yet very tellingly said "This is the conflict you're looking at. Jaina and Lorethemar are going to clash, and it's going to be BIG and affect both factions." The fact that it's not Garrosh and Varian standing there, but those two? It really speaks volumes without having to spell it out directly to us. I thought whoever came up with that was brilliant.
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90 Goblin Hunter
12395

So cut out some of the shots (they had a few that made me wince as it showcased the worst of wow's graphics for longer then things like that bird boss thing you barely got to see), extend the length of the things truly worth viewing so that it actually leaves an impression. I didn't mind the rhyming, though I've always felt his voice was a little TOO bland and a little too 'I am a monk who is moved by nothing'. Even the most tranquil of monks would know that some words are to be said with heat and passion.


Except Cho ain't no monk; he's a Lorewalker, which means he's a historian, archivist, poet and scribe all at once.

Totally different mindset.
Edited by Kopperschott on 2/27/2013 6:35 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Rogue
0
Ultimately, I kind of wish there had been two trailers.

I actually don't mind the theme of the first one. They wanted a villain of legend, someone so horrible he is spoken of only in cryptic poems. I do wonder why they bothered predicting the Zandalari will save them, though. Kind of diminished the poem for me when it talks about nature and power and dominance and then goes into a weirdly-specific reference.

For what they intended to accomplish, I think it works. It just wasn't about the stuff I was interested in.
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90 Gnome Warlock
11855
Dave Kosak said in one of today's interviews that up until the Zandalari part, the narration was part of an Ancient Poem, telling tales of the Thunder King. The last bits are new additions to the poem, written by Cho himself.

Seeing as Lorewalkers likely wrote the poem in the first place, his own addition to the poem is likely part of his duties in the Seat of Knowledge.
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90 Goblin Warlock
7275
The Zandalari came out of nowhere to resurrect this dead baddie that they really shouldn't have any prior knowledge of... because...?

I suppose it would be a mildly interesting idea that the corruption of Lei Shein reached out and pulled the lesser-minded but somehow higher definition trolls out of the shambles of their empire as foot soldiers for something bigger and badder, but that brings several inconsistencies to light.

First, obviously and already addressed, the Zandalari had their time and they should be destroyed. We've cleaned house like, what, three times? They've been in every expansion and we've slapped them down in every expansion. Somehow, though, they managed to scrape together an army big enough to bring back a thunder god from Pandaria. What?

Second, also mentioned by Enekie, Lei Shein doesn't have any personality, and that's something Blizzard's antagonists are lacking. They aren't motivated to do anything. They want "power" and "domination." Vague goals that are good for short-term villains - like Lei Shein - and require no post-patch elaboration or focus. Someone mentioned this was a filler expansion, and they are absolutely right. Odds are, we'll move on from this boss and there will be no blip in the story. We'll get a bit of dialogue from Lor'themar - bless - and maybe a glimpse into the inevitable crazy-story Jaina's brewing, and that'll be that. This patch is entirely negligible to WoW's story.

But I think it's worth debating whether or not losing a few big battles would be beneficial to the story. If Lei Shein had a better conflict other than "threatening to do really bad things by being alive," like tipping the balance against the pandaren and thus threatening their place in their land, and he succeeded in doing this, there's more investment in the story. There's more opportunity to submerge oneself in the story. Imagine - their native homeland is threatening to chew them up and spit them back out. They're running up a down escalator and if they don't pull out all of the stops, they'll lose their claim to Pandaria. It'd be fantastic, But sadly the moment I saw that this was a new raid I knew it was going to be another one of those "hey lets kill this guy b/c he's bad and get all the phat loots." I knew we were inevitably going to win.

And that's one the more depressing parts of WoW, I find. Each new expansion brings a new villain without a real threat. No question that we might lose to the flat big boss character at the end. No investment in the conflict, because there isn't one. It's just another gear run.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
18325

So cut out some of the shots (they had a few that made me wince as it showcased the worst of wow's graphics for longer then things like that bird boss thing you barely got to see), extend the length of the things truly worth viewing so that it actually leaves an impression. I didn't mind the rhyming, though I've always felt his voice was a little TOO bland and a little too 'I am a monk who is moved by nothing'. Even the most tranquil of monks would know that some words are to be said with heat and passion.


Except Cho ain't no monk; he's a Lorewalker, which means he's a historian, archivist, poet and scribe all at once.

Totally different mindset.


True, but that makes the blandness even worse. Poets, scribes, the people who would take news land to land, all know that tone of voice is needed to convey a sense of urgency if you want to drum up the troops and get the young idiots to go out and join the military. What we were given was the historian side. The guy who's doing a poetic stanza about a *past* event, which is not meant to drum up the natives to take a stand and protect themselves.

The purpose of the trailer is to act like those poets and bards did in real life. To drum up the 'troops', ie: us, and get us to march out and face the thunder king. That means tone of voice is key, and a lorewalker would know to go from the sedate ballad of the past, and pitch their voices appropriately to stir the listener. They fell flat on that.
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90 Gnome Warlock
11855
@Aerstole: We've only barely faced the Zandalari in that silly Cataclysm patch with ZG and ZA. In Vanilla we assisted the Zandalari in fighting the Priests of Zul'Gurub, and the next Zandalari we see are in Zul'Drak, intent on recording the downfall of their brethren. Those Zandalari were quest givers to us.

So we've never beat them down on a large scale before. In this patch, we receive news on their current home situation, with Prophet Zul warning King Rastakhan about the Cataclysm and he deciding to do nothing about it. After many warnings, he finally gave Zul a fleet of Golden ships, to get the crazy Prophet off his case (which leads one to suggest that Rastakhan needed Zul seeing as he could've killed him off but chose not to). When the Cataclysm hit and Zandalar started to sink, they turned to the one with the answers: Zul and his Golden fleet. (Today, Kosaks interview suggests that Zandalar wasn't totally destroyed, but the majority of its people are certainly not the ones on the Thunder King's isle).

The Zandalari are ancient allies of the Mogu, so Lei Shen isn't some 'baddie' that they have no knowledge of. The Zandalari would have knowledge of the Ancient Mogu Emperors, up until Shao-Hao sealed Pandaria away.

As for his personality, I haven't seen much of Lei Shen or any outstanding personality, so I think he might just turn out to be like any other Mogu. (Unfortunately)
Edited by Radget on 2/27/2013 8:26 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Rogue
0
The Zandalari, however, are composed of the Drakkari, Gurubashi, Amani and Farraki, all of which we have had extensive battles with.

And, to be honest? That "silly Cataclysm patch" was enough. I know some people argue that it wasn't a good representation of them and they're right. But sometimes, you only get one shot. And frankly, they haven't really changed much since then.

So far, it looks like they're still looking to be more "powerful," so they've cooked up another whacky scheme that we have to stop.

I always thought the story would be more poetic if it were the Last Stand of the Zandalari. If this wasn't just about getting power, but about actually settling down and finding a new home, this story would be more tragic. We wouldn't be fighting the same old power-obsessed trolls, we'd be fighting desperate holdouts. We'd be seriously considering our actions and at the end, we'd have no good answer.

Imagine, then, if it came down to this, if Taran Zhu stood before Jin'rokh the Breaker and said: "Throw down your arms, Zandalari. The Mogu treat you like beasts, your defenses have fallen and all you have left are your ships. Go to them now, before you find out what awaits you after this life."

Imagine, then, if Jin'rokh rumbled in reply: "Shado-Pan, my people are slaves, my home is beneath the sea, my warriors are being slaughtered. I am already in hell."
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90 Goblin Warlock
7275
02/27/2013 08:25 PMPosted by Radget
The Zandalari are ancient allies of the Mogu, so Lei Shen isn't some 'baddie' that they have no knowledge of. The Zandalari would have knowledge of the Ancient Mogu Emperors, up until Shao-Hao sealed Pandaria away.


I confess I didn't know this.

Imagine, then, if it came down to this, if Taran Zhu stood before Jin'rokh the Breaker and said: "Throw down your arms, Zandalari. The Mogu treat you like beasts, your defenses have fallen and all you have left are your ships. Go to them now, before you find out what awaits you after this life."

Imagine, then, if Jin'rokh rumbled in reply: "Shado-Pan, my people are slaves, my home is beneath the sea, my warriors are being slaughtered. I am already in hell."


Poetic, indeed. Too good to wish for, though.
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90 Gnome Warlock
11855
Imagine, then, if it came down to this, if Taran Zhu stood before Jin'rokh the Breaker and said: "Throw down your arms, Zandalari. The Mogu treat you like beasts, your defenses have fallen and all you have left are your ships. Go to them now, before you find out what awaits you after this life."

Imagine, then, if Jin'rokh rumbled in reply: "Shado-Pan, my people are slaves, my home is beneath the sea, my warriors are being slaughtered. I am already in hell."


I'll admit, this does sound neat. If only it had gone this way.

There's mention and suggest of the Mogu/Zandalari relationship and how it isn't the same as it use to be way back when. Lei Shen, while he does share his power, looks down upon the Zandalari, seeing himself as higher beings, what with their connection to the Titans.

I don't think the Zandalari here are as desperate as they were in Kun'Lai, which is a shame, but it does lead to the suggestion that maybe the Zandalari have split ways, with this fleet seeing their people's salvation in ancient allies.

We have Zul and Rastakhan to deal with and maybe one of them will be looking for desperate measures to save their people. (I know, Trolls are overused, but there will be more of them in the future).
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90 Orc Hunter
15435
So if big mean mogu king man make slaves out of all bear peoples...

What he turn Dugathar and other peons into?

Dis not good. Dugathar need to escape weird empty Pandarialand and get back to real Pandarialand in time to fight mean Empororeror! Dugathar will make world save for peon kind!
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6685
If the Emperor doesn't yell "UNLIMITED POWAH" I quit life.
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90 Goblin Hunter
12395


True, but that makes the blandness even worse. Poets, scribes, the people who would take news land to land, all know that tone of voice is needed to convey a sense of urgency if you want to drum up the troops and get the young idiots to go out and join the military. What we were given was the historian side. The guy who's doing a poetic stanza about a *past* event, which is not meant to drum up the natives to take a stand and protect themselves.

The purpose of the trailer is to act like those poets and bards did in real life. To drum up the 'troops', ie: us, and get us to march out and face the thunder king. That means tone of voice is key, and a lorewalker would know to go from the sedate ballad of the past, and pitch their voices appropriately to stir the listener. They fell flat on that.


Bad call by the director I'd think, since Jim Cummings is spotless as a voice artist. :p
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12585
I don't understand anyone who says they don't understand that Lei Shen is a big deal. His hand and the remnants of his work are visible all over Pandaria. All of the Mogu warriors who we are fighting and dealing with? Remnants of his empire. The Serpent's Spine, the main thing standing between the Mantid and swarming this entire continent? The Thunder King had it built. The massive distinctive statues in the Vale? Lei-Shen's work again. The very shrines that serve as the hub zones for Horde and Alliance were built by his empire.

It has been millenia since the Mogu empire fell, and its remnants are STILL incredibly visible throughout Pandaria. Lei-Shen was one of the biggest factors in the shaping of the history of the continent. And yet people are saying that they don't see the big deal about the guy.

The Thunder King comes.
Edited by Aganaer on 2/28/2013 2:08 AM PST
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