The REAL reason Horde lose AV all the time.

90 Blood Elf Hunter
9390
02/24/2013 03:43 PMPosted by Bynir
the Iceblood Choke is the most powerful in the game (not the bridge like you previously stated). Iceblood can protect every single one of the Horde assets and not letting a single person through, ever.


Iceblood cannot protect glav. And with enough alliance push you can get into IBT. The iceblood choke point isnt as game changing as everyone thinks it is.
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100 Night Elf Druid
16525
Iceblood cannot protect glav. And with enough alliance push you can get into IBT. The iceblood choke point isnt as game changing as everyone thinks it is.


You can absolutely defend Galvangar using the Iceblood choke. Not many people run past it during the initial Galv rush so a team as small as 10 people can hold the choke, 3 people in the tower and 27 protecting the captain.

If you look at the Alliance counterpart - there's Stonehearth Bunker off in it's little world, Balinda's hut that has 2 paths to it, the graveyard bang in the middle but far away from Balinda and Stonehearth Bunker and then Icewing which is really the only 'stronghold' that can easily be (and is) used against the Alliance.
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90 Undead Priest
8345
02/24/2013 01:46 AMPosted by Jugaa
This past AV holiday I qued with 3 friends (2 of which are in dreadful gear) and all we did was D galv and then back cap. We won like 11 of 12 games.


Every damn AV match I try to get people to D Galv, and maybe 6-7 other people go...and we hold them off for a while but it seems 15+ ally are there and it's a wipe. I've given up and just blacklisted the 40 mans anyway...


I blacklist the zerg fest AVs too but the defensive ones are still really fun. We're from the same server so add me if you want and I'll be down to run some. I think the reason we get people to go Galv with us is because we bring healers.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
9390
02/24/2013 04:28 PMPosted by Bynir
Iceblood cannot protect glav. And with enough alliance push you can get into IBT. The iceblood choke point isnt as game changing as everyone thinks it is.


You can absolutely defend Galvangar using the Iceblood choke. Not many people run past it during the initial Galv rush so a team as small as 10 people can hold the choke, 3 people in the tower and 27 protecting the captain.

If you look at the Alliance counterpart - there's Stonehearth Bunker off in it's little world, Balinda's hut that has 2 paths to it, the graveyard bang in the middle but far away from Balinda and Stonehearth Bunker and then Icewing which is really the only 'stronghold' that can easily be (and is) used against the Alliance.


Everything you say...is ONLY in a hypothetical world. I'd like to know your approximate losses to the above mentioned comments you've made in say ..however many years you've played av. Feel free to even make up a number.

Can people defend galv? Sure, but the amount defending him will either be wiped by the majority attacking force....OR the small attacking force will be wiped at galv by the large defense and those remaining at the choke will be wiped by the alliance forces pushing forward.

Again, this would ONLY happen when all the planets align correctly in the cosmos (in a PUG setting) . Rath strat avs sure but those are run with purpose and precision. In a pug random bg world...everything you say....will never happen....only in the land of theory where everyone wishes they lived.

I should edit and point out you have over a 60% win rate in AV with 2000 matches played so I dont think anything has effected you that often in there.
Edited by Shâd on 2/24/2013 6:26 PM PST
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100 Night Elf Druid
16525
02/24/2013 06:23 PMPosted by Shâd
I should edit and point out you have over a 60% win rate in AV with 2000 matches played so I dont think anything has effected you that often in there.


You'll also notice that I'm mostly a defence player:

Alterac Valley towers defended 630
Alterac Valley towers captured 191

You're right it's all hypothetical. It's also hypothetical to assume the bridge is utilised much in this day and age where we all wish we lived.

Fact is, everything else still stands. The Horde can rush and have an easier time of doing so (in a game of straight up racing and no defence) than the Alliance does. They just play stupid for reasons listed on the other page.
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90 Undead Rogue
9025
well i can say is that ive played a lot of av since june of 2005 and its morphed into a very different game over the years. Galvenger and Balinda really isnt needed to win anymore and and if your still going to them i kind of laugh because they are about reinforcements not defeating Van or Drek and the whole game now days will last about 8 to 11 min . your will never use the reinforcements in that time.The towers and bunkers are what is needed to get rid of the marshals and to lower Van's and Drek's defense. Recap is about keeping thier defense and attack power up.I disagree that the iceblood choke point is the strongest in the game the archers for iceblood tower are almost always defeated in the begining zerg .
where the north towers archers are behind the bridge choke point where they are less vulnerable and the south tower protects other end of the bridge and the entrance to north and south towers.it is the archers that make the choke point formidable and the bridge can be a problem with knock back now.
these days winning in av is about understanding when to kill opponents so that they dont respawn in places that allow them to recap or defend against your offense.And mainly to be the fastest at taking towers and bunkers and to defend them against the recap teams that are sure to come and take them back.The sooner you take out the bunkers or towers the less reinforcements the other team has and the sooner you can end the game by killing Drek or Van.
Edited by Imback on 2/24/2013 7:36 PM PST
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90 Gnome Priest
6575
02/24/2013 06:53 PMPosted by Bynir
They just play stupid


/rolls eyes

The Horde lose because Horde players are stupid by nature.... yes, you are very logical and well informed.

maybe... just maybe ... there might be another reason why horde struggle on the AV map.

i got a crazy idea-
why don't you take your vast knowledge of AV and roll horde for a while and see what it takes for a win?

The horde need a lot more then 32 people sitting on a hill out side of Frostwolf keep and 8 people defending Towers and ONE Grave Yard (the alliance winning strat).

and because it takes a bit more effort to pull off a horde win ... the alliance have the advantage
Edited by Pumpkinz on 2/24/2013 7:52 PM PST
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90 Undead Rogue
9025
well ty for your off handed compliment .
i will say this there are a lots of bad players on both sides but considering your comment and my statements , "the alliance should win every game of av , if they dont then the horde are not the only stupid players in the game"
Edited by Imback on 2/24/2013 7:46 PM PST
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90 Undead Rogue
9025
i got a crazy idea-
why don't you take your vast knowledge of AV and roll horde for a while and see what it takes for a win?

i have and there are some like me who have a vast knowledge of av on both sides.
and your also right that the alliance have the advantage.
that is why i suggest we flip starting points randomly to get the game a fresh challenge and even the game up a bit. besides why should we have all the fun on horde?
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90 Gnome Priest
6575
02/24/2013 08:03 PMPosted by Imback
that is why i suggest we flip starting points randomly to get the game a fresh challenge and even the game up a bit.


That is an awesome idea! O.o
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90 Undead Rogue
9025
i think so too and we need some fresh fun in bg's
the flipping the starting points would work in any of them.but some of them like eots it really wouldn't matter.
now ab or sm that would shake it up a bit.
we already do it in sota in the same game.
Edited by Imback on 2/24/2013 8:16 PM PST
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90 Undead Priest
1770
what? http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/moon-guard/Amarlovie/statistic#21:153
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100 Night Elf Druid
16525
The Horde lose because Horde players are stupid by nature.... yes, you are very logical and well informed.

maybe... just maybe ... there might be another reason why horde struggle on the AV map.

i got a crazy idea-
why don't you take your vast knowledge of AV and roll horde for a while and see what it takes for a win?

The horde need a lot more then 32 people sitting on a hill out side of Frostwolf keep and 8 people defending Towers and ONE Grave Yard (the alliance winning strat).


No, you're twisting my words. I said they play AV stupid, which they do. I have a Horde character (admittedly not levelled because I hate questing and Mists takes a long time to get through) and it was as easy as it is for Alliance to reach the base and NOT aggro the entire base.

The Alliance win more zergs not because it's easier but because the single most important thing in zerg games is starting timers.

Alliance:
- 15 people go to Galv
- Death Knights, Paladins and others ride towards Frostwolf and cap towers and graveyards on the way while others kill Galv
- Towers go down, the Alliance go all in and focus fire on Drek'Thar as opposed to any remaining warmasters.

Horde:
- 35 people go to Balinda (who has less health than 5 man dungeons)
- Balinda dies, 2 people then decide to go cap Stonehearth Bunker (again after Balinda's death despite the bunker being the first thing to be reached on the map by either side)
- 1 person caps Icewing then leaves
- 32 people ride to Stormpike Graveyard where they all insist on dismounting to cap it
- They finally make it into Dun Baldar, cap both bunkers, leave them undefended
- Run around the entire Alliance base aggroing everything (I can't tell you how many times the Druids who are behind a freaking mountain far away from everything have been dragged over the graveyard)
- Bunkers left undefended are backcapped
- Yell 'all in' then focus fire on the bunker warmarshals, instead of focus firing on Vanndar Stormpike

Go into an AV and tell me if that plays out differently. That's what happens 85% of the time. If 35 people didn't go to Balinda and instead started timers (which is in the Horde's favour because you reach Stonehearth Bunker before the Alliance can even reach Galvangar) and sent people north, they'd win faster games more.
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100 Gnome Priest
8870
Ahem....correction.

Horde doesn't always lose AV.

Whenever the hordie shaman multiboxer shows his head they win without fail.

Him and his greasy little crew of 20 or so shaman toons always backcap and win.

You can hear him on public wow vent day or night..."hey, little shaman toons, let's target the healers first and then we can go back to their GY to farm them for the next hour"...LOL.
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Because AV is a terrible BG, so far from what any other BG is and 9/10 people just want it over as soon as possible win or lose so they can do something fun instead.
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