Grimoire of Sacrifice is rendered impotent

90 Human Mage
17245
Nice work blizzard. I keep hearing how you don't want to cookie cutter our talents, but then you guy pull this crap.... No one but the crappiest warlocks will take this talent now, and why should they? For that matter, why should they be affliction locks anymore??

Good work crippling another class....
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90 Troll Druid
17085
The idea was to limit things that were clearly better, I am surprised they did not hit incarnation for the same reason.
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90 Undead Mage
14225
Its easier for them to ruin the one talent than to fix the other two.

It sucks but it seems to be a fairly consistent trend.
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90 Human Warlock
17825
And it totally fails to fix the underlying problem wich is, once we've stacked up enough Mastery, we'lll just go back to sacrifice again. All it's done is killed sacrifice for warlocks not in full bis cutting edge gear with sub par mastery totals.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16330
02/25/2013 08:37 PMPosted by Ishrn
The idea was to limit things that were clearly better, I am surprised they did not hit incarnation for the same reason.

The main reason it was clearly better was because it meant that the warlock didn't have to put up with craptastic pet mechanics.
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90 Human Mage
17245
Well, I've said before... rather than trying to give feedback on why your class needs fixing, rather than demand that other classes be kicked in the balls, this is why the game will eventually die. People who love what their classes do just to have them wrecked later doesn't always instill a "We'll persevere" attitude. It is what leads to people just getting tired of it and unsubscribing.
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12 Goblin Warlock
0
Shocking that a Marine Biologist isn't in touch with the playerbase, eh? Keep on thinking that the vast majority of Locks LOVE their pets, Greg!

So basically we have a talent that is supposed to be bad, similar to glyphs that offer you a Quality of Life change at the cost of throughput.

It's design intention is now precisely for it to be bad. I find that to be hysterical but woefully unsurprising.
Edited by Guldanica on 2/25/2013 9:39 PM PST
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90 Orc Warlock
10490
Figures. And I was just starting to LIKE 'lock.
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90 Orc Warlock
11170
As soon as I saw the destro buffs my first thought was "I bet they're buffing that because they're going to take it out of sacrafice".

The only real suprise to me in the last round of changes was that there wasn't another fear nerf.
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90 Human Warlock
13425
Will have to see where it comes up against the other choices once sim numbers come out. Big thing to remember is that as long as it falls within that 5% patchwerk style performance; live performance will probably come out ahead with GoSac simply because you won't have to worry about the absolutely terrible pet mechanics, and abysmally poor encounter design further hindering them.

Add on top of that; that eventually with mastery scaling, GoSac will outpace the other two again (if early math is to be believed) and its only a temporary fix to the actual problem; which surprisingly no one seems to have identified yet.
Edited by Acteon on 2/26/2013 8:53 AM PST
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90 Human Warlock
12355
02/26/2013 08:52 AMPosted by Acteon
Add on top of that; that eventually with mastery scaling, GoSac will outpace the other two again (if early math is to be believed) and its only a temporary fix to the actual problem; which surprisingly no one seems to have identified yet.

According to my understanding, the problem is that Affliction and Destruction's mastery does nothing to increase the damage done by pets, but it does increase the damage done by GoSac.

Why they can't buff Affliction and Destro mastery to increase pet damage... I have no clue.

I LOVE Grimoire of Sacrifice. What I hate is that they've neutered it for now, and they're likely to neuter it again as we reach higher mastery levels. Awful.
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90 Orc Warlock
11170
It's all good, immolate and conflag got a further 5% nerf to offset the GoSac nerf.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
9085
To be honest though, most locks should have a demon.

If the reason you took sac was because you hate pets you might prefer a non-pet class better.
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90 Goblin Warlock
16125
02/25/2013 08:52 PMPosted by Spinnerdh
The idea was to limit things that were clearly better, I am surprised they did not hit incarnation for the same reason.

The main reason it was clearly better was because it meant that the warlock didn't have to put up with craptastic pet mechanics.


Not even that. Demo is the only mastery that will scale with the other 2 talents. Affliction and destro using sac get sac boosting every single secondary stat(via whatever spell is buffed by sac for the spec) whereas a pet doesn't do anything with their mastery.
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90 Draenei Paladin
16320
fun but sidetracking fact, the greater elementals a shaman can summon have twice as much health as our infernal/doomguard


Yeah, you're supposed to kill the totem, though. Not the elemental.

The totem has 154k, a doomguard has 199k.

OT: this nerf makes me sad :( Blizz taking the lazy way out and choosing to nerf one option rather than balancing the tier.
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90 Human Warlock
13425
To be honest though, most locks should have a demon.

If the reason you took sac was because you hate pets you might prefer a non-pet class better.


Or maybe I'd prefer pets that had more health than a catacylsm player.

Pet's that didn't have retarded AI.

Pet's that had more useful abilities.

More importantly, the ability to swap pets in and out like a shaman does with his totems. Cause that's literally all a warlock pet is. A totem.

A totem with more health, but is still globaled in 1 or 2 hits by a warrior.

A totem that can move, but is rarely ever where you need it the most.

A totem that can not be as easily replaced or switched.

Isn't that just sad? (fun but sidetracking fact, the greater elementals a shaman can summon have twice as much health as our infernal/doomguard, can both be summoned at the same time, and are usuable in the arena)

Now I'm not saying shamans are OP or anything they got their own problems. But that's exactly what I see when I see our current demon pets. A more useless version of an already pathetic totem. Everytime one of the things is on me I find it as a mere nuisance, comparable to that of a fly buzzing around your ear. You could instantly swat it dead if you want but it's really not worth the trouble since it can't do much to harm you.

Totems and flies... wow those should be the last things I think of when I think of a demon. Way to go blizzard!

So yes. I picked warlocks at the start of BC because they were a more fun pet class. I'm still waiting on our pets to come back though, cause the ones I have now have been replaced by imitations of the real thing. So if blizzard wants more locks keeping their pets around... maybe they could OH I DUNNO buff them?

Nerfing Sacrifice into oblivion does nothing but remove a valuable option to the class. The pets are still useless. It's less about picking a talent that's useful and more about picking one that's the least useless. In an ideal version of this game locks would have the CHOICE to play with their pets or without their pets and not feel like they're getting ripped off. Promoting more than one playstyle is crucial to keeping peoples interest in the class. Removing what we like (or nerfing it until its useless) just brings us back into a cookie cutter spec.

Though instead of us all picking sacrifice and enjoying it, we're all picking supremecy and hating it. So in the end nothing changed except giving us all one less reason to like our class and one less reason to keep playing the game. At least we were content with sacrifice...


Amen.

Warlocks have a long, sortied past with developer 'vision' of the class. There isn't a "Play it your way!" choice here. Its "Play it our way, or we'll nerf your way into obscurity."

That mentality only drives a divide between the player and the class; reminiscent of CataSyndrom which was nearly the extinction of the warlock class. Good job, development team. Good job.

But I say that without hate, without anger, or sarcasm. The team is once again pushing in the same direction that lead to the cata-mentality of "I don't care.", and if a player doesn't care; they won't keep playing. Its the passionate ones that will stick around, but they'll just be silenced; can't have people spouting profanities and hate even if the heart is in the right place.
Edited by Acteon on 2/27/2013 6:09 AM PST
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90 Human Warlock
6120
As a new lock rolled three months ago and a player returning to WoW after four years I find the change frustrating. But in particular the comments from the dev regarding HIS philosophy for MY character really rub me the long way - very patronising. In a former life I worked in the finance industry and often dealt with executives who had lost sight of the fact that customer opinion mattered in product design decisions. I sense a disturbingly familiar sentiment when I read Ghostcrawler's comments about locks and their pets.

As for me as a new lock, I really enjoy the challenge of PVP and still in a learning curve, but I find lock pets extremely frustrating to manage in arena where the environment is highly dynamic and unforgiving, and requires flexibility and reliablity - neither of which are present in lock pets. The problems with Pet AI and mechanics have been covered ad nauseum in these forums. So the main reason I use gosac is because the pets suck, not because I dont like pets or dont agree with the prescribed philosophy.

I dont pretend to speak for all locks but in my opion, rather than than proferring whimsical motherhoods about class philosophy to justify a shortcut fix, the designers could actually add value by addressing the fundamental reasons many locks prefer gosac over fighting two battles in arena, one with the enemy and the other with a recalictrant pet.
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90 Tauren Druid
13005
The main issue with the talent is even at a slight dps loss, if the fight isn't tank and spank sac will do more dps than the other two, simply because any time where a pet is switching targets/bugs (heroic elegon for example) sac is massively better.

The only way to really counter it is to micro manage your pet which a lot of people simply don't do.
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