Grimoire of Sacrifice is rendered impotent

90 Night Elf Hunter
6730
Wait, so I won't get hit with 145k chaos bolts even through my 60% damage reduction?

Sweet. Thank you Blizzard.
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90 Human Warlock
6120
Cortland said:

Wait, so I won't get hit with 145k chaos bolts even through my 60% damage reduction?

Sweet. Thank you Blizzard.


Well yes, didnt you know the damage taken is inversely proportionate to your intelligence?
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Cortland said:

Wait, so I won't get hit with 145k chaos bolts even through my 60% damage reduction?

Sweet. Thank you Blizzard.


Well yes, didnt you know the damage taken is inversely proportionate to your intelligence?


Hahahaha! Made my day!
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90 Undead Warlock
10130
The main issue with the talent is even at a slight dps loss, if the fight isn't tank and spank sac will do more dps than the other two, simply because any time where a pet is switching targets/bugs (heroic elegon for example) sac is massively better.

The only way to really counter it is to micro manage your pet which a lot of people simply don't do.


If pets are factored into Warlocks dps, anytime they are not attacking is a loss. Travel time, putting issues, pet death all constitute a loss.

A ran some bgs with pet builds on ptr. Sac is the clear winner in my eyes. If a pet dies you have to sound a resource to get it back or run without a pet for undetermined length of time. Either way you are looking at damaged lost, by use of resource or lack of pet.

The buffs to other spells were a buff to sac inadvertently. I think destruction will remain sac or go home.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
6730
Cortland said:

Wait, so I won't get hit with 145k chaos bolts even through my 60% damage reduction?

Sweet. Thank you Blizzard.


Well yes, didnt you know the damage taken is inversely proportionate to your intelligence?


Ah, the old "this spell is so hard to cast that nobody ever should get hit by it" argument.

In that case, you shouldn't miss having it.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
17205
Ah, the old "this spell is so hard to cast that nobody ever should get hit by it" argument.

In that case, you shouldn't miss having it.


Indeed, many destruction warlocks would prefer a faster style more like end of Wrath with less emphasis on chaos bolts with all cooldowns going.
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90 Human Rogue
8250
Don't know about anyone else but I'll be taking Sac still, Managing pets is boring as watching paint dry.
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90 Human Warlock
17000
02/27/2013 06:31 PMPosted by Cortland
Wait, so I won't get hit with 145k chaos bolts even through my 60% damage reduction?

Grimoire of Sacrifice adds a DoT to Chaos Bolt, not a damage boost. The direct hit of a Chaos Bolt will be unchanged.

03/01/2013 03:33 AMPosted by Kelvaren
Indeed, many destruction warlocks would prefer a faster style more like end of Wrath with less emphasis on chaos bolts with all cooldowns going.

Don't try to use Ad Populum to argue your point. You can't prove the majority agree with you, and Blizzard knows that.

03/01/2013 08:58 AMPosted by Aphellia
Don't know about anyone else but I'll be taking Sac still, Managing pets is boring as watching paint dry.

Pets really aren't a big deal. My only concern is that I'll need to carry stacks of books around, and maybe that the reforges for Supremacy and Sacrifice are different.
Edited by Serinicas on 3/1/2013 9:07 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
17205
03/01/2013 09:06 AMPosted by Serinicas
Don't try to use Ad Populum to argue your point. You can't prove the majority agree with you, and Blizzard knows that.


Actually just refuting the druid's ignoratio elenchi via levity, but, ya know, it's a PVP thang.

I'll restate: in my experience, many destruction warlocks who engage in arena combat would prefer less emphasis placed on landing huge, rare chaos bolts.
Edited by Kelvaren on 3/1/2013 9:59 AM PST
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90 Worgen Mage
11090
03/01/2013 09:57 AMPosted by Kelvaren
Don't try to use Ad Populum to argue your point. You can't prove the majority agree with you, and Blizzard knows that.


Actually just refuting the druid's ignoratio elenchi via levity, but, ya know, it's a PVP thang.

I'll restate: in my experience, many destruction warlocks who engage in arena combat would prefer less emphasis placed on landing huge, rare chaos bolts.


Uh...most casters in pvp would prefer to not cast at all, I thought that was a foregone conclusion this expansion? From a pve point of view I welcome a casting class that has extremely hard hitting abilities, but there always has to be a penalty for them, in this case it is the cast time. The idea of destro was one of my favourites this expansion, though I did prefer when they used soulfire instead of chaos bolt, just because I liked the look of it better.
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90 Human Warlock
13045
To be honest though, most locks should have a demon.

If the reason you took sac was because you hate pets you might prefer a non-pet class better.


Pets haven't really been a big part of our DPS for a while; they were a huge part of the solo game way back when though.

When I really started playing this Lock, pets were a pretty small part of our damage, usually less than 5% of my total damage done.

I know for a period of time during Wrath specifically, Locks were wanting our pets to mean more to us, to have a greater impact on our damage output.

As raid encounters have gotten more complicated, and pets have slowly grown more powerful and more integral to our output, pet AI has been more of an issue for sure, and it'll only get worse as fights get even more complicated.

The point is that while Warlocks have been a "pet class" all along, our pets haven't been a big part of our raid performance until Cataclysm, and then you had all of these brutal fight mechanics that were seriously frustrating, especially on heroic-level content. This is best illustrated by comparing the basic tools that our pets have versus the tools that Hunter pets have, and the biggest difference is all of the mobility abilities like speed boosts and teleporting behind a target, etc. Hunter pets are made for being a bigger part of their DPS pie, and ours still lag behind in that department.

Warlock pets have none of those things, and while I'm sure we are "balanced" around that fact, it doesn't make the play experience any less frustrating, especially on a fight with multiple target switches and AoE situations. Nothing is more frustrating that seeing my pet run away from a boss while I am trying to kill an add or something.

I choose GrimSac because of these factors, and I likely will continue to in the future just because I don't want to have to deal with pet interactions on increasingly complicated fights. Hell, my 10-minute cooldown demon with a ranged attack can't even hit the dragon on Gu Cloudstrike in Shado-Pan monestary, nor can my Fel Puppy. I know, "lol 5-mans", but the point is, it's a really simple encounter and pets just take a dump on it.

Throw in instances where my pet just runs around in circles trying to find a path to a target, and GrimSac just becomes more and more attractive.

02/28/2013 08:56 AMPosted by Avatarroku
If a pet dies you have to sound a resource to get it back or run without a pet for undetermined length of time.


We either have to spend time (casting) or a soul shard. Either is a DPS loss. I can't count the number of times my pet has randomly died, and I won't know why. Sac is just easier/better than dealing with all of that stuff.
Edited by Setekh on 3/1/2013 4:53 PM PST
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90 Undead Warlock
13160
Ah, the old "this spell is so hard to cast that nobody ever should get hit by it" argument.

In that case, you shouldn't miss having it.


Indeed, many destruction warlocks would prefer a faster style more like end of Wrath with less emphasis on chaos bolts with all cooldowns going.


No thank you.

I quite like tickling my opponent actually, then throwing a Haymaker and knocking out their teeth.
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4 Undead Warlock
0
There's nothing wrong with pet ai, just ask Al'Akir.

What's even more fun is soul linking your pet with it's awesome ai. So much fun to be had where 1 hit on your pet insta kills both the pet and you.
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[quote]fun but sidetracking fact, the greater elementals a shaman can summon have twice as much health as our infernal/doomguard, can both be summoned at the same time, and are usuable in the arena.


Question.... Since when have the two Elementals Ever been able to be used at the same time? Pretty sure the answer is never, they share a 1 Min CD with each other...
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90 Undead Warlock
11145
As a new lock rolled three months ago and a player returning to WoW after four years I find the change frustrating. But in particular the comments from the dev regarding HIS philosophy for MY character really rub me the long way - very patronising. In a former life I worked in the finance industry and often dealt with executives who had lost sight of the fact that customer opinion mattered in product design decisions. I sense a disturbingly familiar sentiment when I read Ghostcrawler's comments about locks and their pets.

As for me as a new lock, I really enjoy the challenge of PVP and still in a learning curve, but I find lock pets extremely frustrating to manage in arena where the environment is highly dynamic and unforgiving, and requires flexibility and reliablity - neither of which are present in lock pets. The problems with Pet AI and mechanics have been covered ad nauseum in these forums. So the main reason I use gosac is because the pets suck, not because I dont like pets or dont agree with the prescribed philosophy.

I dont pretend to speak for all locks but in my opion, rather than than proferring whimsical motherhoods about class philosophy to justify a shortcut fix, the designers could actually add value by addressing the fundamental reasons many locks prefer gosac over fighting two battles in arena, one with the enemy and the other with a recalictrant pet.


I love this post....
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90 Pandaren Shaman
13920
02/26/2013 07:57 PMPosted by Crocelle
(fun but sidetracking fact, the greater elementals a shaman can summon have twice as much health as our infernal/doomguard, can both be summoned at the same time, and are usuable in the arena)

Haven't been able to have them both out since some random time in Wotlk or Cata, and Earth Elemental is totally useless unless you have PE. Only reason it sees use in PvE otherwise is because the damage it puts out over 1 minute is free for Enhancement (they can just drop the totem during an open GCD), don't even know if Elemental bothers.
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90 Goblin Warlock
7555
I think it's intentional.

I can't find it off the top of my head since it's fairly old, but GC did make a tweet where he mentioned that GrimSac was there primarily for 'die hard fans of the old sacrifice talent' but that 'most warlocks should be using pets'.

It being nonviable seems in tune with that sentiment.
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90 Worgen Hunter
19840
poor warlocks, pets suck. welcome back to the suffering
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14 Worgen Priest
20
Blizzard should be forced in playing warlocks with a pet out. I know Demo isnt compatible with GoSac, but that damn Felguard has the WORST AI ever. It will intercept your target, then goes back to you...WTF? WHY?!

Not only that, you'd have to spam that attack button just to he can actually attack someone.

There's a reason why a lot of warlocks doesn't like dealing with pets. They are so wonky and hasn't been fixed by Blizzard for 3 expansions now.

Fix the root of the problem, not the temporary solution.
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