I wish I'd never chosen Brewmaster

90 Pandaren Monk
5960
I love it to pieces, I really do... but in raids I just seem to take such massive spikes of damage.

I keep shuffle up 100% of the time, Elusive brew up as often as possible too... but sometimes I will take next to no damage for up to 10 seconds, then all of a sudden the boss will smash me down to 10%, relentlessly. It feels like I'm relying on luck of whether the boss hits me or not. It's not like when the bosses do hit me I have the armor buffer there, either.

It's so hard to find a raiding guild who wouldn't rather just take a Platey or Druid.
Even in PuGs I get told I take so much damage. Is it something I'm doing wrong? Look at my stats, please.
Edited by Whistlewind on 3/1/2013 5:59 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
10965
Have any logs? I have trouble believing you are keeping everything up and receiving at least a normal amount of healing and still having trouble in your current gear level vs content.

I main tank for a H 25m guild and never see any issues compared to our various other plate and bear tanks. Actually I'm usually the same damage/healing taken with a large boost over their total DPS.
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1 Tauren Shaman
0
That is what Guard and Dampen Harm are for
Edited by Kangamooster on 3/1/2013 8:06 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
18840
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7591979125

read it carefully. Your stat allocation is all over the place. So you might not be using the tank mechanics as well as you think.

And as Rikimu said, logs help us understand what is goign on.

"all of a sudden the boss will smash me down to 10%, relentlessly" is a very broad statement without context.
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90 Human Warlock
16700
03/01/2013 08:58 AMPosted by Leeflow
"all of a sudden the boss will smash me down to 10%, relentlessly" is a very broad statement without context.

And generally when people say this, it's been shown to be exaggerated or the result of something going horribly wrong.
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90 Pandaren Monk
9560
03/01/2013 08:05 AMPosted by Kangamooster
That is what Guard and Dampen Harm are for


Dampen harm doesn't even trigger for me most of the time.

I guess we just have to work harder to get the same results as other classes... /sadpanda
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90 Pandaren Monk
18840
That is what Guard and Dampen Harm are for


Dampen harm doesn't even trigger for me most of the time.

I guess we just have to work harder to get the same results as other classes... /sadpanda


if you are getting killed fast and DH is not being triggered. I'd say it's 99,99% chance you are doing something wrong.

Specially considering you didn't step into hard modes.

And generally when people say this, it's been shown to be exaggerated or the result of something going horribly wrong.


exactly.

It's guaranteed that monks, if played properly are on par with other tanks. Any player having issues, should stop, check the forum, check their rotation gearing etc .. because something is wrong. Guaranteed.
Edited by Leeflow on 3/1/2013 11:01 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
10280
exactly.

It's guaranteed that monks, if played properly are on par with other tanks. Any player having issues, should stop, check the forum, check their rotation gearing etc .. because something is wrong. Guaranteed.


I can attest to this. I came here with some logs from our bladelord attempts and got plenty of help. Now, I take hardly any damage to Overwhelming Assaults (unless I mess up!).

So, OP, bring some world of logs reports, it helps a ton.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10965
03/01/2013 09:40 AMPosted by Wanglo
Dampen harm doesn't even trigger for me most of the time.

Clearing normal mode at i490 isn't going to result in a lot of events that would trigger DH but it's still better than the "rng" or Healing Elixers on most fights, at least you got 45 sec for it to proc all it's charges. On a lot of fights that I know will have a lot of up-front damage I will even pop it on the pull.

Even H Blade Lord won't proc it a lot of the time because Guard should be soaking the Overwhelming Assaults. I don't really mind, so your basically complaining that you don't get hit for 20% of your life often enough?
Edited by Rikimu on 3/1/2013 11:36 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
9560
03/01/2013 11:36 AMPosted by Rikimu
I don't really mind, so your basically complaining that you don't get hit for 20% of your life often enough?


It's basically a waste of a defensive cooldown, especially when there are many fast hits that are under 20% of my life.

I tried healing elixirs and it actually came in more handy than dampen harm...
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90 Pandaren Monk
9560


if you are getting killed fast and DH is not being triggered. I'd say it's 99,99% chance you are doing something wrong.

Specially considering you didn't step into hard modes.

It's guaranteed that monks, if played properly are on par with other tanks. Any player having issues, should stop, check the forum, check their rotation gearing etc .. because something is wrong. Guaranteed.


I'm not getting killed fast. Never said I was. That said, something like sha of fear thrash has killed me before without triggering DH once. So I guess I did something wrong because I didn't white crit and proc an elusive brew in time.

My bad.

But you're right, I should have to do hard modes in order to show how on par they are -_-
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1 Tauren Shaman
0
If you're not being killed fast what are your healers doing? Active mitigation doesn't mean "I don't ever need a healer," you know.

Also,
03/01/2013 01:10 PMPosted by Wanglo
So I guess I did something wrong because I didn't white crit and proc an elusive brew in time.
no, that's what you should have Guard up for. It's quite possible 10m normal Sha doesn't do enough damage per swing to bypass 20% of your hp, especially if you were wearing stamina trinkets at the time.
03/01/2013 01:10 PMPosted by Wanglo
But you're right, I should have to do hard modes in order to show how on par they are -_-
Don't be sarcastic and dismissive when people are trying to help you. Frankly the problem is most likely you. The problem was me when I started Brewmaster for a while, and there are still times where I realize it's my fault that I screw up on things (e.g. didn't start using Dampen Harm on Blade Lord until fairly recently).

Absolutely the best thing you can do for yourself in terms of improving as a player is to ALWAYS tell yourself there is something better you can do, and to realize there is ALWAYS someone who knows better than you. There is bad advice and good advice, sure, but if you look through Eflow's previous posts and think that's bad advice - well, then.
Edited by Kangamooster on 3/1/2013 1:28 PM PST
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90 Tauren Monk
13135
03/01/2013 01:10 PMPosted by Wanglo
something like sha of fear thrash has killed me before without triggering DH once

It's 3 attacks. If none of them were over 20% of your health, that means you were under 60% health going into that thrash for it to kill you.

Which implies that, well, something is wrong, be it healers not paying attention, you screwing something up, etc.
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90 Pandaren Monk
9560
If you're not being killed fast what are your healers doing? Active mitigation doesn't mean "I don't ever need a healer," you know.

Also,
So I guess I did something wrong because I didn't white crit and proc an elusive brew in time.
no, that's what you should have Guard up for. It's quite possible 10m normal Sha doesn't do enough damage per swing to bypass 20% of your hp, especially if you were wearing stamina trinkets at the time.


I take less overall damage but when I do it can tend to spike depending on RNG.

Thrash happens every 9 seconds. Guard is used for a previous thrash, 30 second cooldown, fyi. I had agility trinkets on before and DH still didn't trigger I'm just trying different things. Shuffle is up. I'm moving back and forth picking up gift of the ox in my ring. I have to save my 3m cooldown for the blossom.

I'm just bad so don't listen to me is what I get from everyone, including my guildies.

It's very disheartening when I hear healers tell me how hard I am to heal, even though the meters and logs indicate clearly that I have taken less damage and less healing.

"On par" at the end is not necessarily the same thing during the fight.

I have been following the damn tutorials Leeflow posts in almost every monk thread. (thank you Leeflow, btw, the tutorials DO help though, but the class itself has design issues that you seem to want to overlook, especially when compared to other tanking classes)

I'm TRYING to like this brewmaster...
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90 Pandaren Monk
10280
03/01/2013 01:40 PMPosted by Wanglo
(thank you Leeflow, btw, the tutorials DO help though, but the class itself has design issues that you seem to want to overlook, especially when compared to other tanking classes)


Such as?
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90 Tauren Monk
13135
03/01/2013 01:40 PMPosted by Wanglo
I have to save my 3m cooldown for the blossom.

Why?
Guard+EB should handle that fine.

It barely kills DPS who stand in it for us (if our MW is on the platform, he'll just revival it and no one needs to LoS). Between stagger, high dodge, and guard, it shouldn't be a problem unless you're being kept at low health for some reason (and even then, the power buff from the orbs should allow some EH spam).
Edited by Brewhahanss on 3/1/2013 2:03 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
9560
03/01/2013 01:52 PMPosted by Chuin
(thank you Leeflow, btw, the tutorials DO help though, but the class itself has design issues that you seem to want to overlook, especially when compared to other tanking classes)


Such as?


I'm not in the mood to write down all my thoughts on class comparisons, I have tanked on warrior and DK before, but I wish I had:

- a real 1 min defensive cooldown, maybe even just touch of karma
- a more reliable way to proc elusive brew, such as chi spent or energy spent
- better self healing method than Gift of the ox, which requires boss/mob movement

I'm not asking for much, am I?
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90 Pandaren Monk
10965
03/01/2013 01:40 PMPosted by Wanglo
Thrash happens every 9 seconds. Guard is used for a previous thrash, 30 second cooldown

I'm not sure what to say I've done Sha on both 10m and 25m and 100% of my deaths have resulted from Deadly Reach killing me due to platform fails.

You literally only need 1 stack of EB to negate a Thrash since you can telegraph the attack from his animation that appears in his hand.

Also, looking at your armory I can see why you have trouble. Only 3300 haste and crit? No wonder you don't see any EB proc's as you are already using a 2H which can suffer from erratic proc's to begin with.

I would seriously consider backing out of the expertise hard cap and throwing 1200 towards your haste and crit and get out of those expertise gems. Could also use reforgelite or something to get that wasted rating out of your hit.

Sure with some posted logs several people here could identify what you are doing wrong on the fights you claim are hard to be healed in (if it's Sha make sure to log it yourself due to platforms). Happy to offer suggestions but I just can't believe you are that much of a struggle to heal without something being wrong, if anything based on my own personal results of moving through 10m and 25m normal & heroic fights.
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90 Pandaren Monk
9560
03/01/2013 02:00 PMPosted by Brewhahanss
I have to save my 3m cooldown for the blossom.

Why?
Guard+EB should handle that fine.

It barely kills DPS who stand in it for us (if our MW is on the platform, he'll just revival it and no one needs to LoS). Between stagger, high dodge, and guard, it shouldn't be a problem unless you're being kept at low health for some reason (and even then, the power buff from the orbs should allow some EH spam).


The healer and I are the ones grabbing most of the orbs, so I often won't proc an EB as I run back and forth and smack the panda every now and then to keep up threat. I do guard, but I also FB to make sure I don't die...
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90 Human Monk
5590
03/01/2013 02:04 PMPosted by Rikimu
You literally only need 1 stack of EB to negate a Thrash since you can telegraph the attack from his animation that appears in his hand.

"Negate" is a strong word. As high as it may be (up to 100%), avoidance is still just a chance at not taking damage.

I've been hit by 5 out of 6 hits from a Dread Thrash with over 80% avoidance.
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