Holy Paladin T15 Set Bonuses

90 Night Elf Druid
15480
Wouldn't you worry about the nerfs you'd receive if you HoPo generated quicker? Because i can tell you it would come swift and harsh. More HoPo=more free spells which leads to rebalancing the class.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
10900
02/28/2013 06:03 AMPosted by Sadiemay
Wouldn't you worry about the nerfs you'd receive if you HoPo generated quicker? Because i can tell you it would come swift and harsh. More HoPo=more free spells which leads to rebalancing the class.


I'm not convinced much of a nerf would be needed. Holy Paladins were right on par with druids and MWs of the same skill level with their absorbs being the "sniper" of heals, not their HoPo generation. Disc pulled way ahead because of their absorbs and Shamans just needed a flat out buff.

I'm okay with them building 4sets around HoPo generation and not fixing it at baseline.
I'm okay with them fixing it at baseline and building 4sets around presumed throughput.
However, the current tier 4pc made one thing obvious, HoPo generation, as it stands at baseline right now, is subpar.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
15480
02/28/2013 06:18 AMPosted by Ceresc
with their absorbs being the "sniper" of heals, not their HoPo generation


To me i see these as one and the same. A lot of the IH affect came from EF blanketing. Not saying that some didn't come from direct heals, but would put more of the burden on IH from EF though.

Maybe i am just old school. I don't like the EF blanketing. I do it because it is effective, just really not that fun to me. But that is just me.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
10900
To me i see these as one and the same. A lot of the IH affect came from EF blanketing. Not saying that some didn't come from direct heals, but would put more of the burden on IH from EF though.

Maybe i am just old school. I don't like the EF blanketing. I do it because it is effective, just really not that fun to me. But that is just me.


I do it because its effective, as well, and to some degree I agree. Though I can still see the difference on fights where I do not EF blanket.
However, things I become concerned with are talents like HA. Its a rather useful ability for burst right now with the 4pc. However, I've used the ability without the 4pc and the difference is remarkable. To the point that, I don't talent it on that toon because it doesn't have the required burst it needs and ends up being overheal, with the other healers more effectively doing what it can't do with HS on a 6s cd.
Edited by Ceresc on 2/28/2013 6:39 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Priest
7670
And here is where you start to see the difference. Blizz recognized that the playstyle was greatly improved by lowering the cd on Penance so they baselined a decreased cd.
Holy Paladins, despite the glaring evidence to the improvement of the playstyle, Blizz has not done anything about it.


Disc really is taking the bullet for Holy Paladins in 5.2 as the excessive amount of absorbs from Disc's SS and DA is masking just how strong IH is. With substantial nerfs to DA and SS coming up though, and with most Paladins going heavy Mastery for EF + IH blanketing, it'll be interesting to see if anything gets done about the 4pc bonus.
Edited by Ceddya on 2/28/2013 6:41 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Troll Shaman
17270
02/27/2013 05:18 PMPosted by Felshifter
I think the biggest issue with the 4p bonus is simply that if you get it early it will be really strong as you'll need the extra healing from beacon on most fights, but as you progress and the tank/you get more gear that extra healing becomes less effective.

More gear just means bosses are tuned to do spikier damage on the tank. The heals are more likley to be overheal, but the heals that are not overheals become even more valuable.

Paladin got completely spoiled with an amazing 4pc in tier 14. Seriously amazing set bonus. Whatever comes after that will always seem weak.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Shaman
11855
Holy paladin here! (It won't let me sign in as her though.. any ideas?)

I'm just wondering if it'd be worth it to hold on to the T14 4 set for all of T15 (kind of like some druids did when they held on to the Firelands tier bonus), or if it's too big of an ilvl gap to do so without gimping myself. 2 Seconds off Holy Shock is a big deal.
Edited by Kharra on 2/28/2013 7:18 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
15480
02/28/2013 07:14 AMPosted by Kharra
I'm just wondering if it'd be worth it to hold on to the T14 4 set for all of T15


509 tier maybe, 496 probably not as the stats on the 522 should make the difference.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
10900
02/28/2013 06:41 AMPosted by Ceddya
Disc really is taking the bullet for Holy Paladins in 5.2 as the excessive amount of absorbs from Disc's SS and DA is masking just how strong IH is.


I don't think Disc is masking anything about Holy Paladins. Yes, IH is strong. No, it's not overpowered. Well played classes are still competitive with Holy Paladins, excepting Shamans. I really do believe Shamans were quite weak this Tier and need some love.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
15480
02/28/2013 07:43 AMPosted by Ceresc
Well played classes are still competitive with Holy Paladins, excepting Shamans.


:( shamans have no class
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
10900
02/28/2013 07:51 AMPosted by Sadiemay
:( shamans have no class


I really feel bad about Resto Shamans this Tier, I hope they get some love.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Priest
7670
02/28/2013 07:43 AMPosted by Ceresc
I don't think Disc is masking anything about Holy Paladins. Yes, IH is strong. No, it's not overpowered. Well played classes are still competitive with Holy Paladins, excepting Shamans. I really do believe Shamans were quite weak this Tier and need some love.


Based on what I've tested, Paladins appear to be ahead of the pack, but we'll see once 5.2 hits the live servers.

The issue isn't with output per se, but as it stands, 40-50% of your output is coming from IH. The fact that your mastery makes up such a big portion of your total healing through absorbs should raise some eyebrows, as it's one of the reasons why they removed the guaranteed DA portion from PoH.

This really is mostly due to your T14 4-pc, and I suspect most Holy Paladins will keep it for as long as possible, and that's another issue in itself.
Edited by Ceddya on 2/28/2013 9:39 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
16240
The new 4 piece bonus will be quite alright, in my opinion. I know that our beacon overheals and more heal transfers mean more overhealing but you have to look at Beacon as a utility tool as well. With 70% of our healing transferred that means that on fights with heavy raid damage or even heavy tank damage when both tanks are taking hits, it allows us to not having to switch to tanks as often.

I'd also like to know if it will transfer 120% of Holy Light because the wording of the bonus suggests it.

Finally, as a 10 man holy paladin I think both the current and the next 2pc bonus are only ok. We just rarely stack enough for HR and Daybreak to make a significant difference. There definitely some fights but in 10 man I basically need the whole raid to make those spells worth the mana cost.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
13180
02/28/2013 06:03 AMPosted by Sadiemay
Wouldn't you worry about the nerfs you'd receive if you HoPo generated quicker? Because i can tell you it would come swift and harsh. More HoPo=more free spells which leads to rebalancing the class.


Such nerfs would be expected, whether it's a nerf to healing output or an increase in mana costs, and I'm sure they will be attached to the abilities that help generate such Holy Power. I'm completely fine by this.

02/28/2013 09:30 AMPosted by Ceddya
I don't think Disc is masking anything about Holy Paladins. Yes, IH is strong. No, it's not overpowered. Well played classes are still competitive with Holy Paladins, excepting Shamans. I really do believe Shamans were quite weak this Tier and need some love.


Based on what I've tested, Paladins appear to be ahead of the pack, but we'll see once 5.2 hits the live servers.

The issue isn't with output per se, but as it stands, 40-50% of your output is coming from IH. The fact that your mastery makes up such a big portion of your total healing through absorbs should raise some eyebrows, as it's one of the reasons why they removed the guaranteed DA portion from PoH.

This really is mostly due to your T14 4-pc, and I suspect most Holy Paladins will keep it for as long as possible, and that's another issue in itself.


I feel the main culprit is Eternal Flame and the excellent synergy it has with Illuminated Healing. I feel the best course of action would be to reduce the duration of Eternal Flame and readjust healing output accordingly to dampen the effectiveness of blanketing the raid with Eternal Flames and, in relation, Illuminated Healing absorptions.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
12545
I was very sad when I came back to the game for patch 5.0, and saw what they did to my beautiful Daybreak. Very sad, indeed.

02/28/2013 07:43 AMPosted by Ceresc
I don't think Disc is masking anything about Holy Paladins. Yes, IH is strong. No, it's not overpowered.


I don't agree with you. Disc is masking a number of things currently, including pushing our strength to the back burner. A single paladin is not necessarily OP, but 3 good ones in a 25m will be, and very soon.

02/28/2013 10:06 AMPosted by Areos
I feel the main culprit is Eternal Flame and the excellent synergy it has with Illuminated Healing. I feel the best course of action would be to reduce the duration of Eternal Flame and readjust healing output accordingly to dampen the effectiveness of blanketing the raid with Eternal Flames and, in relation, Illuminated Healing absorptions


Most likely, Holy Paladins will be nerfed via Divine Purpose dropping to 15% or so, and they'll add something to a Ret/Prot talent that restores it to 25% for Ret/Prot. Very clean, very simple, and they wouldn't have to tweak numbers very much, if at all.

Riôt
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
10900
02/28/2013 09:30 AMPosted by Ceddya
The issue isn't with output per se, but as it stands, 40-50% of your output is coming from IH.


That number is inflated. IH typically does 25-35% of our healing, sometimes a little more.

02/28/2013 10:42 AMPosted by Riôt
A single paladin is not necessarily OP, but 3 good ones in a 25m will be, and very soon.


I definitely don't believe that a single paladin is OP, however, I don't raid in 25s, so I'll take your word on the 3 in raid. The question though is- If it does become a problem in 25s, what then, would that mean for the 10m paladin, who is already in line with other healers?
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
13180
Most likely, Holy Paladins will be nerfed via Divine Purpose dropping to 15% or so, and they'll add something to a Ret/Prot talent that restores it to 25% for Ret/Prot. Very clean, very simple, and they wouldn't have to tweak numbers very much, if at all.

Riôt


I don't see Divine Purpose being nerfed because a lot of Eternal Flame blanketing I've seen so far, done by my buddy Holy Paladin and I with promising results, is done with 1 Holy Power Eternal Flames blanketing as many people as possible. I feel that if Eternal Flame/Illuminated Healing synergy is going to be nerfed, it should be through reducing Eternal Flame's duration.
Edited by Areos on 2/28/2013 11:13 AM PST
Reply Quote
Until we can figure out the exact amount that we're gaining throughput and efficiency-wise with the current 4 set it's debatable whether or not it'll be worth keeping around. Considering how much of our healing is directly affected by HS and the fact that it HIGHLY depends on skill level, playstyle, and the amount of potential healing we're giving up it'll be difficult to make a general statement, and it might also depend on the amount of stats you're giving up.

For instance, for certain people it might be better to hold onto t14H 4set until they get t15H 4set dependent on how much they rely on HS. t15N 4set might not be worth it for certain paladins.

It'll also depend heavily on fight and other gear upgrades. If you get an early weapon upgrade, additional int might not be as important to you because your heals at that point might be big enough to warrant wanting more of them.

Most likely, Holy Paladins will be nerfed via Divine Purpose dropping to 15% or so, and they'll add something to a Ret/Prot talent that restores it to 25% for Ret/Prot. Very clean, very simple, and they wouldn't have to tweak numbers very much, if at all.

If this were to happen it would have happened in 5.1.
Edited by Röthtwo on 2/28/2013 11:23 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
17230
I definitely agree here. The t14 4pc is the only bonus where I have ever thought to myself "this bonus should be baseline". Every other tier set bonuses felt exactly like that, a bonus and I didn't feel "gimped" when I lost the bonus in favor of another. In fact I was always excited to get a new bonus, something different

This time around though I will be very sad to lose the 4 second HS...especially when the new 4pc bonus is pretty passive. Like others have said, before the 4s HS, HoPo generation was/is pretty sluggish. Holy shock is our only mana efficient way to generate it, everything else is pretty expensive (HR and Tower of Radiance are both pricey). Although I have heard spirit levels in 5.2 will enable us to use CS to generate HoPo but many pallies don't like that playstyle and again it's fairly expensive for not even being a heal.

Even if numbers had to be tweaked, I would love to keep 4s HS. As many others have said, it makes HoPo generation so much more fluid.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
21745
Going from an incredible bonus that makes the spec a million times more fun to play to the most boring passive thing I have seen since T8 2 set giving a 15% 9 second hot on Holy Shock crits. I can't wait!
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]