PTR opinions of Disc and Holy (5.2 PvE)

90 Pandaren Priest
10560
Hello! I glanced through the first page of the forums here and didn't see anything, but I'm wondering how those of you who, unlike me, have had a chance to test feel about the current state of disc and holy. What spec are you preferring to play? Do you feel like it was the best spec to play for most fights or do you just prefer it? Any mana issues with the gear being scaled up/down, or was it all pretty solid?

I saw Twistedmind's post about Solace. Still hold true? Are you guys running solace as disc and mindbender as holy?

Any other info is greatly appreciated. I would love to spend all day digging for the info, but unfortunately I have to spend all day writing essays on classical liberalism instead.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
I tested Holy with Solace and I actually really like it. It's best if you're having issues with mana and on fights with constant damage as the GCDs spent on Solace are a form of throttling down your mana usage while still getting a decent, free heal. Although, mana didn't seem to be much of an issue for both specs on the fights I tested.

The 2/4-pc T15 set bonuses are awesome for Holy, and I'm looking at 20% bigger PoMs on average while the 4-pc bonus comprised 4-5% of my total healing. As it stands, Holy will be doing amazing throughput in 5.2, especially with more Spirit allowing us to be more aggressive with our healing and more so once we obtain our new tier bonuses (relative to the other healing specs, the T14 bonuses for Holy are pretty meh).

As for Disc, PW:S will certainly be used more often and offensive Penance should definitely be used on CD. I was able to keep up with other healers on most fights whilst being 10-15% ahead of them on fights with predictable burst (Holy Paladins are another story, IH is just amazing). The only concern I have is how we'll scale into HMs with higher damage, as most of our throughput comes from absorbs with intrinsically low overhealing. Still, I was more than able to sustain rather substantial usage of PW:S, and it looks like the only time that PoH is worth casting over PW:S is if the PoH will heal at least 4 people with minimal overhealing.

Overall, Holy and Disc will both be viable options as the nerfs to SS mean that it's not going to be as crucial in a 25-man anymore. Ultimately, I would probably still go Disc on fights with predictable burst damage and Holy on fights with constant damage to take advantage of DI in conjunction with our 2-pc tier bonus.
Edited by Ceddya on 2/24/2013 12:31 PM PST
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90 Draenei Priest
8015
I've tested both, I wasnt really happy with either, as i have come to rely on D.A and i really missed being able to do that. I found i was getting next to no proc's with my current forging as in 5.1 i prefer mastery, reforged into crit which was a slight (very slight) improvement.
To be completely honest, disc is playing like a really gimped version of how we play it now. during high damage fights, the best out put was still coming from POH spams with Cascade on CD. for lower damage times, attonement.
In Disc i was coming in low to middle with the Shamans owing every fight, druids second, then pallys, then disc then holy.
Holy was playing like it normally does, with its normal strengths and weaknesses. This has been my ptr experience thus far.
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90 Pandaren Priest
10560
02/24/2013 12:24 PMPosted by Ceddya
Overall, Holy and Disc will both be viable options as the nerfs to SS mean that it's not going to be as crucial in a 25-man anymore. Ultimately, I would probably still go Disc on fights with predictable burst damage and Holy on fights with constant damage to take advantage of DI in conjunction with our 2-pc tier bonus.

Yeah that two piece does look amazingly tasty. Thanks for the info on the other fights. Call me crazy, but I'm glad PW:S is back. I'll still play Holy on any fight I can get away with it, though. Seen any Tayak/Empress style fights where you just can't justify not picking disc?

To be completely honest, disc is playing like a really gimped version of how we play it now. during high damage fights, the best out put was still coming from POH spams with Cascade on CD. for lower damage times, attonement.

Interesting. I am a bit confused as to why, with gear scaling, you did not find the capability to utilize PW:S. Did you just not find you had the mana, or did you feel it was ineffective?
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90 Draenei Priest
13065
02/24/2013 12:51 PMPosted by Pearthemedic
I've tested both, I wasnt really happy with either, as i have come to rely on D.A and i really missed being able to do that.


That's the whole point of the changes, to get away from that kind of "healing".

02/24/2013 12:51 PMPosted by Pearthemedic
I found i was getting next to no proc's with my current forging as in 5.1 i prefer mastery, reforged into crit which was a slight (very slight) improvement.


Keep your mastery as it is and try reforging secondaries into haste. Make liberal use of Inner Focus and PW:S to help with burst AOE damage inbetween SS cooldowns. Haste will increase raw throughput of both PoH and Atonement which are your bread and butter triage healing spells.

02/24/2013 12:51 PMPosted by Pearthemedic
To be completely honest, disc is playing like a really gimped version of how we play it now. during high damage fights, the best out put was still coming from POH spams with Cascade on CD. for lower damage times, attonement.


What? I don't know about you but I do this already. What in the world were you doing before? Just PoH blanketing and relying on DA? That's a very poor and inefficient way to heal.

In Disc i was coming in low to middle with the Shamans owing every fight, druids second, then pallys, then disc then holy.
Holy was playing like it normally does, with its normal strengths and weaknesses. This has been my ptr experience thus far.


I don't think you've learned how to use all of your healing spells and cooldowns properly. Keep practicing.
Edited by Tiesha on 2/25/2013 7:20 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12085
02/25/2013 07:19 AMPosted by Tiesha
I don't think you've learned how to use all of your healing spells and cooldowns properly. Keep practicing.


I haven't been on the PTR yet, but judging by your comments I don't think you have either, let alone all of the MSV heroics/some HoF heroics as Disc. What gives you any right to be an !@# to a individual that is trying to be helpful with his current experience on the PTR. I'm not on the PTR, doesnt seem like you are, He was, and is just letting us know what he thought.

Now,im not saying your incorrect, as just blanketing the raid with only DA is not good gameplay and is a inefficient way to heal, but still, don't call someone out and make him feel bad for "not know how to play". Maybe he just sarted playing a priest and noticed that Blizzard gave us this silly spell that offered so much bang for his buck so he would just cast that all the live long day..Maybe that's all he knows, who knows, who cares. Just offer some insightful feedback.

I don't give 2 $%^-es how disc priest do in normal modes, or 10m. It comes down to 25m, and heroic at that. The current new model for disc priests have us severely lacking behind in terms of throughput and ability to save someone from the brink of death. In consistent AoE damage situations, which is pretty much every fight in the 5.2 raid, we can't quite compete on the same level as the other healers (Which Is ridiculous,as Blizzards new healing model was apparently that every healer should be able to perform each role efficiently, ie Tank and raid healing). This is simply not the case. Again, think about heroics, where the damage going out is going to be too much for our small little heals to handle. And "having to go holy" shouldn't have to be an option.

For god sakes, I have seen logs from the 5.2 Normal 25m raids for Holy pallies, and their Illuminated Healing is off the charts. They do more absorption than Spirit shell and Divine aegis. It's completely bonkers, absorption should be our bread and butter.

We have no effective AoE anymore with the change to crits (Dont even start with the mastery increasing non-crits by a little bit, cause frankly its minuscule, and negligible at that.). Try healing up 5 people using a archaic group-targeting heal that does like 34k healing non-crit on people with 450+k health pools. Your trying to fill an ocean up with a garden hose. Of course you have other healers filling that ocean up too, but at least there filling it with a oversized watermain pipe, and making a difference...Rather,lets use offensive penance+instant HF/solace! Probably net you more healing that a average PoH now, wait not probably...will!! AoE via-vi single targeting, and heals that you aren't even controlling! How fun!

While Perthemedic may not be doing things properly to maximize his results, I would further like to know if this was in LFR? Or a normal group? 10m? 25m?

Also, since I have not personally been on the PTR, just pouring through logs/watching live streams/talking to people in blood legion/Midwinter I would really like to know what legitimate players have to say about these changes. Such as Ceddya, he seems to know what's up.

... (Holy Paladins are another story, IH is just amazing). The only concern I have is how we'll scale into HMs with higher damage, as most of our throughput comes from absorbs with intrinsically low overhealing. Still, I was more than able to sustain rather substantial usage of PW:S, and it looks like the only time that PoH is worth casting over PW:S is if the PoH will heal at least 4 people with minimal overhealing.


At least i'm not the only one concerned. But you have the mentality of "just going holy" for those high throughput fights. I frankly don't think that should be necessary, or required. I should be able to be right on that holy guys heels as disc, maybe not beat him, but definetly steppin' on the backs of his heels, and have the tools in order to do that.

While I have not the time to get on the PTR to participate with my guild/guild isn't on the PTR this round, I would encourage everyone who has(esp heroic level guilds) to please post your thoughts and concerns about the changes here, the good the bad and the ugly, and please lets not just roll on our backs and accept it while we have our spec completely changed mid-stream.

- Concerned priest
Edited by Drbigblunts on 2/25/2013 11:30 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12085
02/25/2013 11:29 AMPosted by Dorkyboypwns
Has anyone tested HOLY DPS on PTR?


02/25/2013 11:29 AMPosted by Dorkyboypwns
HOLY DPS

02/25/2013 11:29 AMPosted by Dorkyboypwns
DPS


Who cares, your a holy priest. If your worried about your DPS as holy, you have other problems, maybe like spec-identity problems.

Just my 2-cents tho.
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90 Draenei Priest
13065
02/25/2013 11:25 AMPosted by Drbigblunts
...


You really shouldn't be using the logs on the PTR to make rash judgements on the status of healing in 5.2 just yet (Illuminated Healing was a bugged for a while). Changes are coming in every few days and most people here are waiting for a release build to hit before making final decisions. Right now too many people are acting like Chicken Little ATM when there really is no reason to. I know I'm not the only one a little annoyed by all of the "sky is falling" posts in the priest forums these days.

The changes made are to get rid of the blanketing the raid with PoH playstyle. That is something we all agree with is boring and inefficient. The person I responded so specifically said they they had grown to rely on that playstyle to heal and were complaining about low throughput on the PTR because the changes have made that playstyle nonviable. I may be blunt and to the point but it's true. I don't sugarcoat things.

25m Disc does need a little help. The changes to SS and DA hurt them the most. You never really capped out SS in 25m to begin with so rarely was it ever abused like in 10m. The changed to SS really hurts a spell that does 20-30% of a priests healing in 25m. Add in the DA nerf to PoH and it hurts even more. I'm still hoping that some other adjustments are made to help disc priests in 25m.

I know I mentioned possibly tacking on a DA proc to Halo. Halo wouldn't be used by priests in 10m cause of the heal/mana cost ratio when compared to Divine Star/Cascade. Tacking a DA proc to Halo would be great for 25m Disc cause you will get much more full use out of it in 25m and it will help with burst AOE damage.

If you want more detailed information on what's going on I suggest taking a peek at the math being done on the HTP forums. There are threads for each PTR build on the General Discussion and Theorycrafting discussions on all of the major changes on the Theorycraft forums.

Blizzard just barely started 25m testing on the PTR again last week or so. So expect more changes in the next few days.
Edited by Tiesha on 2/25/2013 12:19 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12085
Much more informative. Thank you.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
They really need to find a way to make it so that Atonement healing doesn't benefit from damage modifiers. As it stands, fights like Horridon are going to greatly favour Disc, especially once he gets 4 stacks of Cracked Shell (constant +200% damage modifier).
Edited by Ceddya on 2/25/2013 12:49 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
15835
02/25/2013 12:49 PMPosted by Ceddya
They really need to find a way to make it so that Atonement healing doesn't benefit from damage modifiers. As it stands, fights like Horridon are going to greatly favour Disc, especially once he gets 4 stacks of Cracked Shell (constant +200% damage modifier).


But it's fun.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12085
02/25/2013 12:49 PMPosted by Ceddya
Atonement healing doesn't benefit from damage modifiers


Isn't that half the fun of atonement? And Is there damage modifiers on all the fights? If not, I don't see that big of a problem with one spec being OP on one fight, unless its absolutely ridiculous.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
02/25/2013 01:01 PMPosted by Drbigblunts
Isn't that half the fun of atonement? And Is there damage modifiers on all the fights? If not, I don't see that big of a problem with one spec being OP on one fight, unless its absolutely ridiculous.


Seeing big numbers may be 'fun', but all you're really doing on that fight is using a Penance, Solace and Smite rotation. It's hardly engaging. A constant damage modifier also results in balancing issues, and it puts healers without the ability to heal via damage at a disadvantage.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
9855
02/25/2013 12:18 PMPosted by Tiesha
...


You really shouldn't be using the logs on the PTR to make rash judgements on the status of healing in 5.2 just yet (Illuminated Healing was a bugged for a while). Changes are coming in every few days and most people here are waiting for a release build to hit before making final decisions. Right now too many people are acting like Chicken Little ATM when there really is no reason to. I know I'm not the only one a little annoyed by all of the "sky is falling" posts in the priest forums these days.

The changes made are to get rid of the blanketing the raid with PoH playstyle. That is something we all agree with is boring and inefficient. The person I responded so specifically said they they had grown to rely on that playstyle to heal and were complaining about low throughput on the PTR because the changes have made that playstyle nonviable. I may be blunt and to the point but it's true. I don't sugarcoat things.

25m Disc does need a little help. The changes to SS and DA hurt them the most. You never really capped out SS in 25m to begin with so rarely was it ever abused like in 10m. The changed to SS really hurts a spell that does 20-30% of a priests healing in 25m. Add in the DA nerf to PoH and it hurts even more. I'm still hoping that some other adjustments are made to help disc priests in 25m.

I know I mentioned possibly tacking on a DA proc to Halo. Halo wouldn't be used by priests in 10m cause of the heal/mana cost ratio when compared to Divine Star/Cascade. Tacking a DA proc to Halo would be great for 25m Disc cause you will get much more full use out of it in 25m and it will help with burst AOE damage.

If you want more detailed information on what's going on I suggest taking a peek at the math being done on the HTP forums. There are threads for each PTR build on the General Discussion and Theorycrafting discussions on all of the major changes on the Theorycraft forums.

Blizzard just barely started 25m testing on the PTR again last week or so. So expect more changes in the next few days.


BULL!@#$! they took away only thing Disc has! now im going be Forced to Either Respect or reroll or Stack massie Crit which still yields me only to about 15% which is nothing.

they take away the PoH bubbles there is no reason for Disc

#1 They Hard cast
#2 they have no AoE
#3 PoH was only thing that was able help without going OOM you still cant PWS a Whole raid so enles they Take Cooldown on rupture off Disc is now One of worst PVE healers ingame they have nothing i repeat nothing now to bring to a raid you have your 100% crit for 1 healer every 45secs yep Big deal not only did they nerf SS being effected by Mastery so did PoH/DA thus puting us even lower sure your bubbles on pws are 100k... ya at look at having cast it 10 times to stop some aoe wide dmg so they either need revert the nerf

or Remove PWS Debuff for disc & Remove CD on rapture to 0 seconds for disc otherwise your still going be using 125k mana alone on pws during aoes and im sorry but disc lost everything it had im being forced to reroll or go holy which i do not like and we allrdy have 1 on our team.

this patch is going force most teams esp hardcore to drop their disc healers and go for something else which is allready happening.

i'v been on ptr since the craps been going on its fairly bad in pve in pvp it wont matter disc has hard cast which they allways get locked down very easy.

im sorry but disc is uttter crap atm as it stands this was a 100% nerf to a class that was made as a bubble healer every other healer has none hard cast we are only class that has to Hard cast every spell & hope it crits.
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90 Pandaren Priest
10560
You are insane. Want to grab a coffee?

e: actually I'll respond seriously too. You should really consider the value of new PW:S before saying Disc will be useless. I haven't played it in the PTR, but another post here has clearly indicated that they got a lot of use out of it. Penance buff will also be a big boost with atonement. SS is still in the game. Chill out.
Edited by Ezekiah on 2/25/2013 5:29 PM PST
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90 Draenei Priest
13065
02/25/2013 05:28 PMPosted by Ezekiah
You are insane. Want to grab a coffee?


Sanity on the forums? Psh.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
The reason no one takes the complaining in these forums seriously is that most of the complaint posts sound like something a crazy person scrawls on the wall of the asylum.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12085
Mine wasn't crazy. Chelsea half went off the deep end though.

I just hope they realize of the potential issues and viability with these changes, especially in 25m heroic with lots of pulse, consistant AoE damage, and hopefully that they even care a tiny bit about our spec. It feels at them moment they don't really as there hasn't been much feedback about these changes, how they feel, our concerns, etc., and that 5.2 is going to be there little petrie dish to try things out, and that is frankly not acceptable; Even by Blizzards own previous statements about major changes mid-expansion.

*Sigh*

Has anyone does any serious 25m testing and like to share their thoughts? I will be that you don't have many good things to say about our state in 25m, but I am dying and hoping to be proven wrong.
Edited by Drbigblunts on 2/26/2013 6:27 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
02/26/2013 06:26 AMPosted by Drbigblunts
Has anyone does any serious 25m testing and like to share their thoughts? I will be that you don't have many good things to say about our state in 25m, but I am dying and hoping to be proven wrong.


Horridon has a constant damage modifier that clearly caters to Atonement healing. Disc has an edge over every other healer on this fight.

Holy and Disc Priests are both highly viable for Iron Qon and should be able to do well on that fight. Pre-shielding via SS and PW:S works really well for Overloads or Unleashed Flame in P1, and there will be plenty of opportunity for SS to shine on the other phases too.

Disc also does well on the Twin Consorts, and PW:S + SS will see good usage on this fight. Depending on how well your raid handles certain abilities though (i.e. if they need the pre-shields for Barrages), Holy may actually be better for this as it's able to sustain higher output than Disc.

As for Lei Shen, there are plenty of opportunities to pre-cast SS, and PW:S/PW:B are invaluable during the transitions especially when it comes to dealing with Static Shocks. I would certainly go Disc for this fight.

Overall, Disc and Holy are both highly competitive specs. As mentioned before though, these are normals and we'll see how this changes are we move onto heroics.

Also, IH is doing a ridiculous amount of shielding given the right conditions. Nerf prlz. :p
Edited by Ceddya on 2/26/2013 6:43 AM PST
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