Totemspot Interview

MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Human Mage
10015
A preference for a stat is not in and of itself a problem. The soft cap is the problem. And soft caps themselves are not necessarily a problem — but when you have two of them, and you're pegged against the ceiling of one of them, and it renders a whole lot of temporary buffs (like the legendary meta) far less potent, that's a significant problem.

The devs clearly agree that this is a problem — the question is how to solve it?
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90 Gnome Mage
11545
03/01/2013 08:17 AMPosted by Lhivera
It could, but let's assume for the moment that I may have more success in directing dev attention to a single thread of feedback in response to the interview than I would have in trying to get them to look at multiple threads on different topics


Ok then, just a couple off the top of my noggin;

1. The afore-mentioned editing of Rune of to allow it to affect one other person in the party/raid (ends up being sorta a mage version of Symbiosis)

2. Magical Conversion - Allows Spellsteal to dispel friendly targets. Successful dispels give you a buff of X over Y amount of time.

3. Font of Magic - Places a buff on friendly target for X seconds. While the buff is active spells cast by the friendly target cost no mana. Instead the mana cost is deducted from the mage. For each spell friendly target casts while buff is active, a stacking damage buff of X is applied for Y time

If you can't tell, I have a theme in my mind of assist someone in group, benefit self. Provides utility, and rewards you a bit for doing so. Also, has the benefit of being a BONUS. You could never balance our damage around expecting us to have these active as they require someone else's participation to work.
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100 Draenei Mage
18665
Thank god, in the future we will be set free.
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90 Troll Mage
11175
It could, but let's assume for the moment that I may have more success in directing dev attention to a single thread of feedback in response to the interview than I would have in trying to get them to look at multiple threads on different topics


Ok then, just a couple off the top of my noggin;

1. The afore-mentioned editing of Rune of to allow it to affect one other person in the party/raid (ends up being sorta a mage version of Symbiosis)

2. Magical Conversion - Allows Spellsteal to dispel friendly targets. Successful dispels give you a buff of X over Y amount of time.

3. Font of Magic - Places a buff on friendly target for X seconds. While the buff is active spells cast by the friendly target cost no mana. Instead the mana cost is deducted from the mage. For each spell friendly target casts while buff is active, a stacking damage buff of X is applied for Y time

If you can't tell, I have a theme in my mind of assist someone in group, benefit self. Provides utility, and rewards you a bit for doing so. Also, has the benefit of being a BONUS. You could never balance our damage around expecting us to have these active as they require someone else's participation to work.


While I wasn't necessarily thinking of these examples, I was also thinking it might be a good idea to implement talents that provide utility for the raid and a self buff to reward the mage for using them.

I think it's obvious we need more utility. Being that we are a pure damage dealing class, it would be nice if our utility functioned in a way that provided the raid with something interesting(not necessarily more damage like Time Warp), while rewarding the mage with a damage buff since that is our primary function in a raid. We would feel the need to use these abilities to help the raid, but not feel penalized for not spamming only damage abilities. The reward could vary based on the effectiveness of the utility so as to not just be a fire on CD type deal.
Edited by Methusulä on 3/1/2013 10:09 AM PST
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90 Human Warrior
11920
this news is just to awesome...... my glass is way full on the future of mages maybe i can go back to my love one day
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90 Gnome Mage
13615
A preference for a stat is not in and of itself a problem. The soft cap is the problem. And soft caps themselves are not necessarily a problem — but when you have two of them, and you're pegged against the ceiling of one of them, and it renders a whole lot of temporary buffs (like the legendary meta) far less potent, that's a significant problem.

The devs clearly agree that this is a problem — the question is how to solve it?


The obvious answer is to remove at least one of the caps. The Crit one, in this instance, regarding Frost, would be preferred. I understand that Frost is the classic PvP spec and PvPers have really grown to like everything that frost has become over the years, but Shatter has just gotten stupid. When Ice Lance was first introduced as a new spell in BC, it was a completely unique and really cool mechanic. Now, the entire spec is bogged down by Shatter, which is essentially a Crit Cap, and Fingers of Frost. Fingers of Frost is just stupid. "Treat the target as if it were frozen" is essentially 'spontaneous damage increaser,' and is especially dumb in PvE when your target can't even become frozen in the first place. The concept of Ice Lance that was so cool in BC has swallowed the entire spec and turned it into this mishmash of behind-the-scenes mechanics that are convoluted and ultimately nonsensical.
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MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Human Mage
10015
A preference for a stat is not in and of itself a problem. The soft cap is the problem. And soft caps themselves are not necessarily a problem — but when you have two of them, and you're pegged against the ceiling of one of them, and it renders a whole lot of temporary buffs (like the legendary meta) far less potent, that's a significant problem.

The devs clearly agree that this is a problem — the question is how to solve it?


The obvious answer is to remove at least one of the caps. The Crit one, in this instance, regarding Frost, would be preferred.


It won't be the crit cap. Quoting GC's answer:

Do you have any long-term plans for getting Frost out from under pretty attainable soft caps on both crit and haste?

Haste, yes. Crit, no. It’s intentional that Frost has a low soft cap on crit, and that they switch to haste (or potentially mastery) after that. The Glyph of Icy Veins helps with that, but there will pretty much always be some instants in your rotation, leading to some haste soft capping, but it is potentially too easy to reach that with the number of temporary haste effects we’ve given out lately. We don’t really like that that Glyph becomes (unintuitively) “mandatory” once you’re at a certain gear level, but it’s a necessary evil for now.


The Haste cap is the one that's going to be attacked. And that's good -- Shatter is the iconic mechanic behind the spec, and bringing it into PvE so that it felt more like it always had when soloing was a good thing.

The question is how to solve the Haste cap when the spec gets so much damage from instant and 1.5-second casts?

________________________________________________
Find answers to questions about Mage mechanics in
Lhivera’s Compendium • http://lhiveras-library.com/compendium
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90 Gnome Mage
13615
I'm just saying that the crit cap is the obvious answer, even if that's not what they want to do. The haste cap is a cap from the game itself - after a certain point, the game will not allow the GCD to get shorter. The crit cap, however, is as it is because the devs have arbitrarily picked that number for Shatter. It can be tweaked or even removed much more easily than the haste one.

The next most obvious solution is to increase the value of mastery. Honestly, Frost's mastery (and Fire's while we're at it) is super boring. You never 'see' anything from it, and it's about as exciting as the old passive damage increasing talents that they were so desperate to get away from in MoP (and failed to do in Cata). That said, the most basic way of improving mastery is to just increase the numbers for it, which doesn't fix how boring it is. Still though, having hit, crit, and haste caps and then just saying everything else should go to mastery is not a very enjoyable gearing process, and doesn't fix the issue of temporary crit/haste buffs being less valuable than intended.

But let's be honest here for a second. Frost may be way more PvE viable than it has been in a very long time, but it still isn't doing anything close enough to Fire or Arcane to make it a relatively popular PvE spec. Now, I'm a big fan of 'play what you love,' but I do acknowledge that typically, what most people love is doing more DPS, and pick the spec of the patch. I say this because it will likely be some time before Frost really starts to become a popular raiding spec, and in "some time," it's probably going to get a huge overhaul that would greatly reduce the strength of the haste cap. The devs have made it pretty clear that they think that ranged mobility and/or instant cast damage has gotten way out of control, and that at some point they are going to have to rein it in. Given that Frost Mages have FoF'd Ice Lances, BF-FFBs, and two options of instant cast bombs, they are huge perpetrators of this (and it gets even worse, when you consider that in PvP, Mages have several instants that can freeze enemies, eliminating the need for FoF). I think it's fair to say that Frost is going to get a huge tone-down of its powerful instants, which will greatly diminish the power of the haste cap.
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100 Gnome Mage
19870

The biggest problem with these talents is that they’re trying to do too much. They’re very much tied to mana, but Frost and Fire don’t really care about mana


I maintain this is the core issue with these talents. They are clearly mana talents. Once you add the +damage they become a maintenance buff. They work as mana talents. They don't work as a static buff. Having to move off your rune for a little bit would not really be that bad. You would lose some regen, but while moving you are spending less mana too. It works out. Having evocate interrupted half way through, not a huge deal, as you can evocate another half cast in a few seconds or just push your next evocate slightly earlier then normal. It works out. Both talents work from a mana point of view. But of course that brings us back to fire/frost not caring.

I still feel that the best course would be for Invocation to become baseline for Arcane and add a glyph to turn it into RoP. Fire and frost can continue with the old evocate model for the times they need it. The tier can be replaced with new talents.

For the new talents, I actually agree with Lhiv (I know shocking ;) ) that another CD is not the route to go. In fact there are to many stacking CDs as is (for lots of classes), and just creates balance issues. I really think they need to be utility, preferably raid effective utility.

Some ideas that feel 'magey' to me:

Mass alter time. Could be done in a couple ways. You could have it work just like our current spell, only raid wide. Or you could summon an hourglass, like end of time, that raid members could click on. It would serve as a raid wall that works a little differently.

Mass teleport. Grab every raid member in X range of the mage and move them to the targeted location. Would serve a similar function to the lock portal, but differently with different strengths/weaknesses.

Shared steal. Cause any buffs stolen by the mage to be copied to all group members.

Mass invis. Could serve similar function to the rogues stealth circle. Could limit it to just mage group, or to raid members with in X yards of caster. Invis on all targets works exactly like mage self invis.

Wall of flame. Line of sight limiter at target location. Enemies that pass through take X damage. Damage low to moderate, enough to be noticeable, but less then any real AE damage spell.

Dome of Ice. Raid CD. Reduce damage for those under it.

Those are just some quick ideas off the top of my head. But you kind of get where I am going. Abilities that add some utility, not another damage CD.
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90 Undead Mage
14465
Holy crap, Neeber. I like your brain. It's a good brain.

You bring up a neat point though with your talent ideas. I would adore begin given some friendly utility for my 90 talents instead of maintenance effects, and I never really considered that the regen factor of the current talents is really only an Arcane concern. And I think Mages would earn more favor whether they were supreme damage sources or not if they had more fun utility. What teleportation & foodstuffs started could be easily predicated on by some real in-combat support abilities.

I hope some devs get your vibes. c:
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
03/01/2013 07:25 AMPosted by Ikaruss
The problem I have with the talents is that RoP and IW seem like they were put in for the sole reason of reducing mobility. They're like a punishment for reaching level 90, rather than a reward.


I assume you meant Invo and not IW. Incanter's improves mobility, survivability and DPS all at the same time. The only thing it really needs is to be drastically superior in DPS to the other two when used on CD, so that you are drawn towards choosing it on fights where that is possible, not just fights where that is easy. I'd like to see some Mages making the choice to, for example, go eat a tick of a voidzone to get a colossal damage boost if their healer can handle it. I mean you can do that now but it's a DPS loss. As-is, with only a tiny advantage over the other two, sometimes people don't even take it on fights where it pops on CD like H Will or Garalon.
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