Blind player no longer able to follow in BGs

(Locked)

90 Blood Elf Paladin
11560
Now, have someone tell you where you live or over vent: "Go North, no South, no South East" and see where you end up


Look at how your character stands. Press W. Note that no matter which direction your character is facing, W makes him walk in that direction. Not north.

Look at the direction his character is facing, tell him to run forward, left, or right. You can also combine forward with left or right. If necessary, backing up is also possible.

Keyboard turning has a consistent turn rate across all races, so you can learn how long to hold the turn key for a specific angle. Mouse turning may be harder, but we're dealing with a blind person playing a video game that's almost entire visual. Of course it'll be hard.
20 Pandaren Monk
7805
03/05/2013 10:21 PMPosted by Arcurex
My condolences on the lose of the original position you held... Your situation is, however, a bit different in that depending on the organization you were employed with (as well as your line of work), you may have been eligible for sick leave, or disability retirement (if you could not recover), or have been given a post where you could preform the duties given to you... Point being, you knew what you signed on for when you took on your job vs the OP's blind friend, as well as the rest of us, who had no idea such a game breaking decision was being made behind our backs. And yes, given the circumstances of the OP's friend, the term Game Breaking IS appropriate.


Yes Game Breaking is quite an appropriate term for this and very few other folks and I really do feel for them. But you don't close the streets because a blind man lives in the city.

The feature was being exploited to achieve a ludicrous level of advantage and now that particular feature is gone. I just don't see follow termination as a bad thing when viewing the big picture. I'd rather see the people who exploited the feature removed but I also understand that that may be exponentially more difficult and really not solve the problem.

Beyond that the user agreement pretty much states that Bliz can change what ever when ever. So yes everyone does in fact know (or should know) what they've signed up for (no need to go into the whole visible script thing either).


Your analogy would be closer to the city being closed to the blind exclusively as this change truly only affects them.

Your use of "exploited" is, I assume, directed at multi-boxers, which blizzard has repetitively stated they have no issue with... if in fact though it is directed at bots, there is no common bot that would uses /follow. Though it would be possible to set one up to do so, the same could be argued for any function in this game. Furthermore, it would be far simpler to program a bot to follow a set path as the layout of bgs never changes.

Regarding the user agreement... how many people do you think actually read it in full? How many do you think Bliz think read it in full? More importantly, do you you know how often such things are waived in the face of claims of negligence (which is what I'd imagine this topic would fall under)?
MVP
90 Night Elf Priest
10900
I wonder if Blizzard could give some kind of attachment that simply makes a constant unique sound.

Then the following person could simply listen for the position of the sound and follow it.
87 Night Elf Druid
6555
The solution, as I posted on p10, is simple. Give /follow a confirmation box so it's voluntary from both sides. Won't stop multiboxers, but it should stop the bots.


Once again, an idiot who doesn't have the slightest idea how complicated it would be to program something like that into a game as complex as WOW.

This would also be exploited like crazy by children trying to annoy people.
Edited by Amergin on 3/5/2013 10:42 PM PST
20 Pandaren Monk
7805
03/05/2013 10:40 PMPosted by Amergin
The solution, as I posted on p10, is simple. Give /follow a confirmation box so it's voluntary from both sides. Won't stop multiboxers, but it should stop the bots.


Once again, an idiot who doesn't have the slightest idea how complicated it would be to program something like that into a game as complex as WOW.


About as simple as making the "join Battleground window" pop-up, or maybe that crz realm invite?
90 Night Elf Mage
13915
03/05/2013 10:40 PMPosted by Amergin
The solution, as I posted on p10, is simple. Give /follow a confirmation box so it's voluntary from both sides. Won't stop multiboxers, but it should stop the bots.


Once again, an idiot who doesn't have the slightest idea how complicated it would be to program something like that into a game as complex as WOW.

This would also be exploited like crazy by children trying to annoy people.


You know what, I don't know how complicated it would be, either.

Please, explain it to me. Plain english, please, as my experience in programming is limited to forum BBCode.
90 Gnome Priest
7440
I'm sick of the "reason" they got rid of Follow

Bots: BAN THEM. Quit screwing around and Perma Ban any IP caught doing it on first offense. They run Warden so they can figure it out. You can also randomly send tells to a Bot and ask it questions that can't be scripted

Multi Boxers: Just cause some of ya'll are dense and cant figure out how to play shouldnt be an issue. My friend and I ALONE kept a 7 box Shammie Bz in AV one day. We couldnt kill him but he couldn't kill us. Which meant that they were missing 7 people to us missing 2. Learn to play. Whats that? 40 Boxer in with Drek? Drop all Towers then grab the mines and wait. Not too hard to understand. Either he'll get bored and leave/log and then ya'll go kill Drek or he'll come out and you can then Kill Drek.
90 Night Elf Mage
13915
I'm sick of the "reason" they got rid of Follow

Bots: BAN THEM. Quit screwing around and Perma Ban any IP caught doing it on first offense. They run Warden so they can figure it out. You can also randomly send tells to a Bot and ask it questions that can't be scripted

Multi Boxers: Just cause some of ya'll are dense and cant figure out how to play shouldnt be an issue. My friend and I ALONE kept a 7 box Shammie Bz in AV one day. We couldnt kill him but he couldn't kill us. Which meant that they were missing 7 people to us missing 2. Learn to play. Whats that? 40 Boxer in with Drek? Drop all Towers then grab the mines and wait. Not too hard to understand. Either he'll get bored and leave/log and then ya'll go kill Drek or he'll come out and you can then Kill Drek.


IP bans don't work because many people have rotating IPs. Meaning that their IP changes from time to time, and then they're no longer banned, because they have a different IP.

Edit: However, I do 100% support banning botters. ^^
Edited by Pounceykins on 3/5/2013 10:48 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Paladin
11920
alright. I guess the roads should be blind people friendly. its not fair that blind people can't drive. I can tell them from a room somewhere with a camera attacked to the hood of the blind person's car telling him to turn left after 500 feet. Uh oh. there is a person in the way? PRESS THE AUTO STOP BUTTON!! or, we could simply have him sit in the passenger seat and pretend he is driving the car and continue to tell him okay you are doing great. How can you enjoy a game that requires visual stimulation? If I couldn't see I can't imagine having fun. Its a bummer, but they can't design a game to fit the needs of a tiny few. Just like how blind people can't drive without FULL assistance, if a blind person has to /follow someone in PVP then I am sorry but life isn't fair and I think your friend needs to either find a new hobby or just not do random BG's. maybe do some dungeons/LFR with him. DBM has procs and sounds he can hear.. you can read the mechanics to him and pay attention to him while hes doing the fight. tell him you are in the fire! move forward!

OMG. okay in pvp first of all if you start a cast your follow doesnt work anymore.. so if your friend were to /follow the whole time you then hewouldn't be helping the BG team at all ..

also, sorry I didn't look through a 13 page thread to find a post with a link in it where the video is.
90 Human Hunter
9295
What I see here is someone complaining about how Blizzard fixed an issue for a vast majority of the player base but in return offering no solution. Ok point out the problem but also offer a suggestion for how you think it should be fixed.

Someone mentioned in passing a great solution to this problem while still offering legit players to use the /follow command. I would like to expand on their idea.

Suggested solution:
Allow players to use the /follow command in BG's and Arena, but the player being followed needs to accept the request, and may only be followed by ONE other player.

This will stop botters from abusing the command, stop multiboxers from using the command and provide the EXTREMELY few legit cases where using the /follow command would be allowed.
87 Night Elf Druid
6555
Blind players make up 0.000001% of the playerbase.

Why are they so entitled as to want their needs met, but not the other 99% who are sick and tired of multiboxers and bots?


The utter thoughtlessness and cruelty of people like you is just unbelievable.

I'm sure the effect of this change on blind players using this feature wasn't considered.

Let's hope Blizzard can do the right thing and come up with a solution that works appropriately for each type of player that uses /follow (bots, boxers, and the blind)


This game like every other VIDEO game was not made for blind players. It' made for people who can see the VIDEO part of the VIDEO game.

The blind players can still play if they wanted to, the just need someone to direct them when they travel, so blizz didn't really ruin the game for them since they needed someone to direct them before the change anyway. Instead of just hitting /follow he now has to listen to the directions from who ever he is playing with and actually navigate. So, in fact, they did not break the game for blind players, the just require blind players to put a little more effort into playing.
Look at how your character stands. Press W. Note that no matter which direction your character is facing, W makes him walk in that direction. Not north.Look at the direction his character is facing, tell him to run forward, left, or right. You can also combine forward with left or right. If necessary, backing up is also possible.Keyboard turning has a consistent turn rate across all races, so you can learn how long to hold the turn key for a specific angle. Mouse turning may be harder, but we're dealing with a blind person playing a video game that's almost entire visual. Of course it'll be hard.


I do agree that for blind people that are playing, there is a few methods of movement and fighting. This of course involves other people and communication. Without knowing the guy in the OP in RL or vent, I'd imagine he will try different methods and at least maybe try to come up with a viable playing solution. If he got this far, I'm sure there will be some attempts at something no doubt.

I do hope though that Blizzard would take a proactive stance on this though and look at all sides here and realize that they did indeed break a players game which was most likely a side affect they didn't consider. I'm certain though that a solution could be implemented that would be cost effective on Blizzards part, not affect normal players and not help botters as well. Of course no one knows, probably not even Blizzard, how many players this has affected that used the /follow for normal playing. It could be 10 players or it could be a thousand players. Statiscally, the OP in quesiton is not the only one though. Either way, I do feel that it is something that should be looked at and a viable acceptable solution implemented.

It just feels wrong to completely break a game for a group of people and not address a possible solution. And lets be real as well: Botters will find a way they always do, hell they fly in Pandaria on level 84's, AFK'ers will find a way as well. All-in-all this will mainly affect the few blind folks needing /follow and the ones deemed a problem will thrive like normal.

Gettign rid of /follow is a bandaid to the botting issue, nothing more. There needs to be more something to address them as a real issue instead of knee jerk reactions that will only hurt regular players.
90 Night Elf Mage
13915
also, sorry I didn't look through a 13 page thread to find a post with a link in it where the video is.


. . . It was near the top of the OP.
90 Pandaren Monk
BUR
15125
I wonder if Blizzard could give some kind of attachment that simply makes a constant unique sound.

Then the following person could simply listen for the position of the sound and follow it.


It should be possible via a addon. You can track the direction a person is in relation to you. You can also track their distance. You could add voice prompts to it, but i don't believe you could account for obstacles so it wouldn't be perfect.

So far I haven't personally seen any reliable solution to this problem. Adding a prompt to the follow command doesn't solve anything. It isn't as if a prompt is the single weakness of bots ;/. Requiring a account to be flagged and prove their disability to allow them access to the "follow" command seems... a bit clunky. It doesn't seem like a appropriate solution. At least in my opinion.
27 Human Warlock
1840
To the fake lawyer or at the very least, the bad lawyer..

http://www.ada.gov/t3hilght.htm
I. Who is Covered by Title III of the ADA

The title III regulation covers --
Public accommodations (i.e., private entities that own, operate, lease, or lease to places of public accommodation),

Commercial facilities, and

Private entities that offer certain examinations and courses related to educational and occupational certification.

Go back to school kid!

I do feel sorry for the guy who no longer can play. Maybe something can be done, but I seriously doubt that anything suggested in this thread will be implemented. I'm no techie, but i'm sure there are things that could be done. It's just a matter of how complicated/expensive it is.

To the op. I think it is great that you go out of your way to help your friend. Keep up the kindness, and GL with this issue. =)
90 Night Elf Mage
13915
I wonder if Blizzard could give some kind of attachment that simply makes a constant unique sound.

Then the following person could simply listen for the position of the sound and follow it.


It should be possible via a addon. You can track the direction a person is in relation to you. You can also track their distance. You could add voice prompts to it, but i don't believe you could account for obstacles so it wouldn't be perfect.

So far I haven't personally seen any reliable solution to this problem. Adding a prompt to the follow command doesn't solve anything. It isn't as if a prompt is the single weakness of bots ;/. Requiring a account to be flagged and prove their disability to allow them access to the "follow" command seems... a bit clunky. It doesn't seem like a appropriate solution. At least in my opinion.


If I remember right, the prompt wouldn't be a confirmation for the person doing the following, it would be for the person being followed to accept or reject.

And heck, to discourage players deliberately annoying others by spamming a /follow macro, add on a couple of features, such as, ignoring a player causes you to automatically reject all their /follow requests, and/or add an option to the Interface thingy to automatically reject all /follow requests.

. . . Like how I turned off the Buzz thing on MSN because a friend of mine kept annoying me with it constantly.
Edited by Pounceykins on 3/5/2013 10:59 PM PST
alright. I guess the roads should be blind people friendly. its not fair that blind people can't drive. I can tell them from a room somewhere with a camera attacked to the hood of the blind person's car telling him to turn left after 500 feet. Uh oh. there is a person in the way? PRESS THE AUTO STOP BUTTON!! or, we could simply have him sit in the passenger seat and pretend he is driving the car and continue to tell him okay you are doing great. How can you enjoy a game that requires visual stimulation? If I couldn't see I can't imagine having fun. Its a bummer, but they can't design a game to fit the needs of a tiny few. Just like how blind people can't drive without FULL assistance, if a blind person has to /follow someone in PVP then I am sorry but life isn't fair and I think your friend needs to either find a new hobby or just not do random BG's. maybe do some dungeons/LFR with him. DBM has procs and sounds he can hear.. you can read the mechanics to him and pay attention to him while hes doing the fight. tell him you are in the fire! move forward! OMG. okay in pvp first of all if you start a cast your follow doesnt work anymore.. so if your friend were to /follow the whole time you then hewouldn't be helping the BG team at all ..also, sorry I didn't look through a 13 page thread to find a post with a link in it where the video is.


There's so much win here, even I feel like a better person reading it! Jeeesh, where to start on this masterpiece of human thought:

Starters, blind people cannot drive anywhere in the US period. There are no "seeing eye drivers" blind folks can rent at the DMV. There is a major issue called human life at stake in that issue. Guess what though? WoW is a game, there is no human life involved now is there? It's about entertainment. Not just yours or mine, but all players capable of playing as well. The blind guy proved he could play the game, that was untill Blizzard removed /follow from BG's.

Secondly, had you bothered to read, they don't want the game designed around a blind player at all. In fact, for a blind person, they did pretty damn well considering. No, no game changing things, they just want Blizzard to reevaluate the /follow option in BG's so they can play again. This won't affect you, won't affect me and ultimatly, it wont affect the bots or AFK'ers because they are always three steps ahead of Blizzard. It only affects the very very few blind folks needed /follow with has been in game for a long time.

I love how people like you always knee jerk drivel from your pie hole going against simple and rational requests from people that otherwise, you've never heard complain about anything. I know reading is hard and comprehension is even harder for the likes of you, so it's best to geek out behidn a screen and let someone else talk for you. Makes you appear much less of a dirt bag that way.
63 Blood Elf Hunter
510
Your analogy would be closer to the city being closed to the blind exclusively as this change truly only affects them.Your use of "exploited" is, I assume, directed at multi-boxers, which blizzard has repetitively stated they have no issue with... if in fact though it is directed at bots, there is no common bot that would uses /follow. Though it would be possible to set one up to do so, the same could be argued for any function in this game. Furthermore, it would be far simpler to program a bot to follow a set path as the layout of bgs never changes.Regarding the user agreement... how many people do you think actually read it in full? How many do you think Bliz think read it in full? More importantly, do you you know how often such things are waived in the face of claims of negligence (which is what I'd imagine this topic would fall under)?


No, tar the blind guy;
Of course I'm referring to the multi-boxers as those who've exploited the feature.

Bliz really doesn't need anyone to read it's user agreement. Once accept is selected on an account weather the person had read and understood it or not makes no difference. they have accepted the terms of the agreement.

More over WOW isn't a reasonable necessity to life nor wellbeing. I highly doubt the courts will be overruling WOWs user agreement. This ain't handicap parking and wheelchair ramps at the hospital. It's a video game and frankly by definition not expected to be frequented by those who are visually impaired. A proper analogy may be urinals in the ladies room.

I still say the boxers wrecked it for themselves and anybody else who may have had a legitimate intent for follow and will likely stick to that position. When folks start making YouTube videos about how to run a game exploit what the @$** would they think was going to happen. Assuming of course that follows termination was even intentional and not just an error.

I reckon we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Edited by Arcurex on 3/6/2013 10:34 AM PST
90 Night Elf Mage
13915
I reckon we'll just have to agree to disagree.


Okie-dokie. ^^

Time for hugs, then? : D

No particular reason. I just really like hugs. And biting.

:: hugs, but refrains from biting even gently ::
63 Blood Elf Hunter
510
Time for hugs, then? : D


/hug
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