Loot system?

90 Human Warlock
7245
I am in the process of recruiting and forming the first raid team for guild in the next few weeks. Meaning I am trying to get ready myself plus help the ones we have get ready as well.

I am curious as to what loot system is the best to use to distribute the loot. In past expansions when I managed to get into a raid, it was always set on master looter and everyone who can use the gear would roll and the winner got it.. MS rolled first then OS..

I keep reading in some of the recruitment spams about DKP and other loot systems.

I just want some input from raid leaders as to what add ons/loot system do you use. I want to make sure the gear goes who the raider that needs it and can use it.
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90 Orc Warrior
17225
There is essentially only one requirement for loot systems for a raid: you dole out the gear in such a way that best benefits the raid team, rather than any individual. Generally speaking you want to equitably distribute the loot rather than over-gearing one person... because said person could up and leave or be absent and all of your gear investment is down the toilet.
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90 Human Warlock
7245
Basically setting up a rule.

Ex: 1 piece of gear for main and 1 for off spec per raider? depending on the raid.
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90 Orc Warrior
17225
Basically setting up a rule.

Ex: 1 piece of gear for main and 1 for off spec per raider? depending on the raid.


That rule is fine; but the weakness of that loot system manifests itself if you have to consistently PUG people that you don't intend to keep. Under this system Joe-20k-DPS will have just as much of a chance to get loot as your core raiders, and you obviously won't want to keep them. Any loot they get is wasted for your raid; since the person who got it is never coming back. If you have a consistent roster then this is not an issue.
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90 Draenei Priest
18040
03/02/2013 08:08 AMPosted by Nidyam
I just want some input from raid leaders as to what add ons/loot system do you use.


We use Suicide Kings, and we have two lists, one for non-tier gear, and one for tier gear.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Suicide_Kings
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90 Human Warlock
7245
Suicide Kings works nicely for repeated PUGs, since people retain their spot making coming back week-after-week rewarding. DKP is pretty outdated. EPGP is the newer, better version, but thats a lot of complexity so don't use it unless you have loot fighting that needs to be addressed.

Basically:

Pugs and casual guilds: rolls or suicide kings
Progression raids: loot council
Loot drama: epgp


I will take a look into Suicide Kings... or just do the rolls.
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90 Dwarf Warrior
12760
Since DKP systems vary, here's the one my guild uses.

All attendees receive a point per raid at the end of the night — seated or not, providing a consolation prize for the bench. Guild-first kills award an additional point to those seated, but also post-raid.

When loot drops, highest DKP wins the loot. DKP is set to zero, regardless. Ties in DKP count are resolved by a roll, and only the winner spends.

Loot not claimed by DKP is awarded by roll to appropriate classes. This is usually where the character of a guild or raid is obvious; the better of the two will see a lot of deference to players who truly need an item to benefit profession.

Unclaimed loot is disenchanted for the guild bank.
Edited by Aedilhild on 3/2/2013 1:53 PM PST
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17 Draenei Shaman
0
Our rule is MS>OS but you can only win one MS per night (unless a piece drops and only you can use it) and I have never ever seen one overgeared raider compared to others. As yes pugs can win but they to can only get one win and with out that pug means no raid, no raid means no gear anyway.
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90 Tauren Shaman
14010
03/02/2013 10:49 AMPosted by Solaeris
I just want some input from raid leaders as to what add ons/loot system do you use.


We use Suicide Kings, and we have two lists, one for non-tier gear, and one for tier gear.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Suicide_Kings


Same, Suicide Kings works great for us
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90 Troll Priest
8825
We use a simple, MS first OS second, roll system.
But we also do more then just roll, we try to figure who would benefit more from the piece of gear.
Rolling seems only come into play for my guild when both rollers benefit nicely from the piece of gear.
Edited by Trollinhobo on 3/3/2013 8:44 AM PST
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We also use SK, but only for our 25 mans. For a 10 man team, I've always thought anything other than MS>OS is a bit of overkill.

You can put courtesies in place (like one piece per night unless no one else needs it) but going with anything more complicated might be more administration than it's worth with a small team.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
11080
We use MS > OS. If it's an item a lot of people rolled on, particularly if many need it to raid, they are asked to link their items. Someone who has a 489 and wants a 496 will not get it if another raider (who goes into raids on a regular basis) has a 471. Many times they discuss it afterwards and trade one another. Blood Spirits automatically go to the guild and are held by me in order to prevent GB theft (we had an account hacked before). Once in a while, and only when we have enough, raiders are asked to /roll for whatever item they want made. Raiders who are not part of that specific run do their /roll whenever they are on next. A few days later, the winner is announced. We then help build the item for that person (typically a guildie has the pattern).

I've never been a fan of DKP, SK, or any other loot system. I personally won't raid with a guild that uses them.

Back in Wrath I raided with a guild that had one item limit per raid. That pretty much killed the fun in those runs.

My advise would be ask your raiders what they want.
Edited by Hespler on 3/4/2013 10:49 AM PST
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90 Human Warlock
7245
Thank you all for the advice. I will keep you updated on how it goes
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15740
Loot council run by people who aren't sleeping with anyone in the guild is hands down the best loot system.

If you take out the second part it drops to worst.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
11080
if many need it to raid, they are asked to link their items. Someone who has a 489 and wants a 496 will not get it if another raider (who goes into raids on a regular basis) has a 471. Many times they discuss it afterwards and trade one another.

I've never been a fan of DKP, SK, or any other loot system.


Are you aware that you're actually using Loot Council? This is exactly how Loot Council works. Your team sits down and goes "okay, who is this item a good upgrade for?", or sometimes "who hasn't gotten loot in a while?".

If there's a tie, the players just sort it out quickly, or roll off to determine the winner.


There is no "council" technically. I decide if this ever happens (very rare) or they sort it out aftewards amongst themselves. It does not work the same way as it does in many other guilds where the entire leadership discusses it.

We also don't go by who hasn't gotten loot in a whle, just so I am clear (look at my gear as proof of that LOL). The raid is to gear people in a manner that they are capable into going into any raid at any time. It is not to satisfy their personal ambitions. We have successfully erradicated many of these gear-obsessed people. Everyone gets loot eventually as it is necessary for their success as a raider.
Edited by Hespler on 3/5/2013 7:08 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
10200
We use EPGP. It's actually very simple once you learn it, and it is the best way to avoid loot drama and award people that consistently show up on time and do a good job.

It can even award standby players to avoid people getting disgruntled if they cannot get into a certain raid on a certain night.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7915
Loot Council is definitely the best for your team as a whole. It's simple and effective. When you do have to pug, you have two options. You can either consider the pug equal to your raiders or give loot to raiders first. Whichever you do, be upfront with them. Both have their disadvantages and advantages. Considering them equal means you're potentially losing loot the could benefit the raid.

If you let them know they won't get loot if a raid member needs it, it's sometimes more difficult to find a pug. Normally, you will end up with better pugs doing this as you get people that want to experience the content regardless of whether they gain loot or not. These pugs are also more likely to join your guild so they can benefit from the loot as well as help you fill your spot.
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90 Draenei Priest
17345
03/05/2013 07:03 AMPosted by Hespler
There is no "council" technically. I decide if this ever happens (very rare) or they sort it out aftewards amongst themselves. It does not work the same way as it does in many other guilds where the entire leadership discusses it.


It may be a "council of one" and your raiders may sort out decisions they don't like after your decision is made but the basic principals of Loot Council are still there.

Every raid team uses a "loot system" even if that system is just the /roll and the highest roll wins.
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