Illuminated Healing OP?

90 Draenei Priest
10225
I think the problem right now is that paladins might be getting lets just use the numbers from Tiberria's post for convenience (so I am not suggesting these are the actual numbers) 40K hps from their mastery and shamans are getting maybe 10K hps from their mastery, and the pally gets 60K hps from direct heals, and the shammy 90K from direct heals. In theory its equal, but in practice with the fights in T15, there never is really enough damage for the 90K hps of the shaman to be utilized because the 40K from the pally just absorbs all that. Its by no means the fault of the pally, but rather a the design of the encounter and absorb mechanics in general. In practice its the nature of the mastery being an absorb that really makes it quite powerful, not necessarily the amount of healing it actually does (although it is quite a lot).
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87 Human Paladin
7060
Sweet baby paladin Jesus.

No one has started arguing whether or not IH is a passive or active bonus yet?

This thread may actually go somewhere.
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90 Night Elf Monk
8475
If you look at monk healing too and monks stacking mastery (which I'm not sure many are because i don't think that's the 'way to go') but they have a lot of healing attributed to their mastery as well.


wat?
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90 Draenei Shaman
5355
Not to say that Blizzard has ever been particularly serious about balance (seriously, fourth expansion, N'th patch, how hard is it to look at a class lagging behind by 15% and just add 15% to their output across the board), but if they were to balance absorbs, they could make them trigger after a portion of the damage is already applied, thus either A) reduce damage by a set percentage and then disappear or B) allow say 20-40% of damage to ignore the shield.
Edited by Zarotustr on 3/12/2013 10:55 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10520
Sweet baby paladin Jesus.

No one has started arguing whether or not IH is a passive or active bonus yet?

This thread may actually go somewhere.


We can't have that now can we. I say its passive and anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

On a more thread related note,

Not to say that Blizzard has ever been particularly serious about balance (seriously, fourth expansion, N'th patch, how hard is it to look at a class lagging behind by 15% and just add 15% to their output across the board), but if they were to balance absorbs, they could make them trigger after a portion of the damage is already applied, thus either A) reduce damage by a set percentage and then disappear or B) allow say 20-40% of damage to ignore the shield.


This doesn't do anything other than shift the overhealing elsewhere and doesn't balance anything (reference to rebalancing of absorbs).

The issue with giving a flat thoroughput boost doesn't take into account fight mechanics and/or why the class is lower than the other classes.
Edited by Eikocarol on 3/12/2013 10:59 AM PDT
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1 Tauren Shaman
0
A) reduce damage by a set percentage and then disappear or B) allow say 20-40% of damage to ignore the shield.
Because making Blood DKs useless is totally awesome.

Or wait, you say. We should institute a double-standards rule WITHIN PVE for absorbs! That's not horribly confusing at all. :/
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
I think the problem right now is that paladins might be getting lets just use the numbers from Tiberria's post for convenience (so I am not suggesting these are the actual numbers) 40K hps from their mastery and shamans are getting maybe 10K hps from their mastery, and the pally gets 60K hps from direct heals, and the shammy 90K from direct heals. In theory its equal, but in practice with the fights in T15, there never is really enough damage for the 90K hps of the shaman to be utilized because the 40K from the pally just absorbs all that. Its by no means the fault of the pally, but rather a the design of the encounter and absorb mechanics in general. In practice its the nature of the mastery being an absorb that really makes it quite powerful, not necessarily the amount of healing it actually does (although it is quite a lot).


There won't be enough damage until heroic content. Shaman Mastery does not shine until you hit heroic encounters.
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90 Pandaren Monk
8135
Some1 has to be the top healer , this patch is the holy Pala .. i'm just happy it's not as ridiculous as 5.1 where disc priest were always 20-25% ahead of all other the healers.
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90 Draenei Shaman
5355
A) reduce damage by a set percentage and then disappear or B) allow say 20-40% of damage to ignore the shield. Because making Blood DKs useless is totally awesome.Or wait, you say. We should institute a double-standards rule WITHIN PVE for absorbs! That's not horribly confusing at all. :/


We are brainstorming here. Obviously exact numbers would have to be fine-tuned. DK's are not healers, however. Who cares if their absorbs stay different? A "double standard" is only relevant if something unfair happens, otherwise it is called "being different". If my car is white and yours is blue, it is not a double standard, it's just different.
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1 Tauren Shaman
0
03/12/2013 12:13 PMPosted by Zarotustr
DK's are not healers, however. Who cares if their absorbs stay different?
you can't even be serious right now
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
03/12/2013 12:13 PMPosted by Zarotustr
DK's are not healers, however. Who cares if their absorbs stay different?


The amount of ignorance in this statement is so great that I am temporarily unable to respond in a constructive manner.

I just...wow.
Edited by Tiriel on 3/12/2013 12:22 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
7275
We are brainstorming here. Obviously exact numbers would have to be fine-tuned. DK's are not healers, however. Who cares if their absorbs stay different? A "double standard" is only relevant if something unfair happens, otherwise it is called "being different". If my car is white and yours is blue, it is not a double standard, it's just different.

There's. There's just so much wrong in this post. I don't even know where to begin. I mean. I just. I can't. I just can't. I simply can't.

Bravo, good sir. Bravo.
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Very productive responses to Zarotustr's question. Nice.

We're talking about tweaking healers' shields/healing (and I, at least, am reading from a PvE perspective). How will DK shields working differently than healer shields affect that? The idea is that if healer shields get nerfed or changed mechanically, they will receive compensation in some other area, so it's not like we're suggesting a flat, across-the-board class nerf, if PvP is your concern.

Your insight is appreciated.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
Very productive responses to Zarotustr's question. Nice.

We're talking about tweaking healers' shields/healing (and I, at least, am reading from a PvE perspective). How will DK shields working differently than healer shields affect that? The idea is that if healer shields get nerfed or changed mechanically, they will receive compensation in some other area, so it's not like we're suggesting a flat, across-the-board class nerf, if PvP is your concern.

Your insight is appreciated.


If you change how absorbs work on a fundamental level, other things are affected.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
24245
I think it's the most OP mastery in the entire game from a PvP perspective.

I don't know anything about PvE though.


are you aware resto shamans exist
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90 Pandaren Monk
7275
03/12/2013 12:30 PMPosted by Leviathel
Very productive responses to Zarotustr's question. Nice.

Are you reading the same post I'm reading? The whole post reeks of general ignorance. Want me to clarify?

03/12/2013 12:13 PMPosted by Zarotustr
DK's are not healers, however. Who cares if their absorbs stay different?

So, we should take away a death knight's ability to self mitigate just because you want to see paladins do less healing? They don't matter because they aren't healers, according to you. Oh, and what about a monk's only real tank cooldown, Life Cocoon? Should that be nerfed as well? Or perhaps a shaman's self-applied absorb, that should be nerfed as well, correct? All in the name to make IH less effective.

DA "double standard" is only relevant if something unfair happens, otherwise it is called "being different".

A double standard is a double standard, no matter how you look at it. Whether it's advantageous or otherwise, it's still a double standard. The idea that you want to nerf healing across the board to bring paladins in line, in your mind, but leaving Death Knights in the dust because their only form of mitigation is their self heals and absorb, not to mention other classes like Disc priests, is a huge double standard. It just is.

If my car is white and yours is blue, it is not a double standard, it's just different.

This has nothing to do with anything whatsoever, and honestly, it's two completely different ideas pulled from the Nether. Honestly, I'm not sure I follow exactly where you came up with this.
Edited by Fistlobster on 3/12/2013 12:44 PM PDT
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If you change how absorbs work on a fundamental level, other things are affected.

Could you be a little more vague? ;P

I don't think anyone said just flat out change all absorbs from every source forevers and change nothing else.

Also, everyone appears to be freaking out about the healer shield vs DK shield thing. Elaborate.
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03/12/2013 12:44 PMPosted by Fistlobster
So, we should take away a death knight's ability to self mitigate just because you want to see paladins do less healing? They don't matter because they aren't healers, according to you. Oh, and what about a monk's only real tank cooldown, Life Cocoon? Should that be nerfed as well? Or perhaps a shaman's self-applied absorb, that should be nerfed as well, correct? All in the name to make IH less effective.

I don't think you guys understand. The poster was suggesting that NOT ALL SHIELDS HAVE TO DO THE SAME THING. IH and whatever other HEALER shields are being suggested for tweaks (not Life Cocoon, for instance, since it's a 3m CD and not being used consistently on multiple people like some other shields are). The poster said that they don't see anything wrong with DK shields still functioning as they do NOW while healer shields are adjusted for balance. They are saying THAT is not a double standard, it's just different mechanics (in this case different absorb abilities) working differently.
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90 Pandaren Monk
7275
I don't think anyone said just flat out change all absorbs from every source forevers and change nothing else.


...Except he did.

Not to say that Blizzard has ever been particularly serious about balance (seriously, fourth expansion, N'th patch, how hard is it to look at a class lagging behind by 15% and just add 15% to their output across the board), but if they were to balance absorbs, they could make them trigger after a portion of the damage is already applied, thus either A) reduce damage by a set percentage and then disappear or B) allow say 20-40% of damage to ignore the shield.
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Fistlobster: He's talking about healers, and he can feel free to jump in and correct me, but I don't think anyone's calling for an all-around nerf of shield healers. Just a change in the way healing class + spec's shields work to put more emphasis on heals and less on absorbs. This would mean boosting shield healers' healing to compensate for less shielding.

EDIT: Clarified, just to be safe, that I am only talking about healer shields, not DK, BrM, Pally tank, or any other type of shield out there.
Edited by Leviathel on 3/12/2013 12:53 PM PDT
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