Mage 5.2 PVE raiding survey

MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Night Elf Druid
11830
Hey guys,
Now that 5.2 is here, there is a lot of angst and worry happening in the mage forum. For me to be able to go to the community managers with mage problems, I need data. I've done this type of thing before when I was raiding on a druid, but now that I'm raiding as a frost mage, I have a great deal invested in mages being viable now.

To be able to take data to the community managers & developers, I need actual World of Log data from your raids.

Specifically, it would be helpful if you filled out the answers to the following questions and posted it here:

Part 1: Show me the numbers:
1) What is your current 5.2 specialization?
2) What type of content have you run in 5.2 (5-mans, solo, LFR, 10-normal, 25-normal, etc)?
3) Link(s) to 5.2 raid logs on your mage (even LFR logs are useful):
4) Did you change specializations for 5.2? If you changed specs for 5.2, what spec were you before?
5) Is your ilevel generally around the same range as your other raid members from the logs you posted? If not, are you over-geared or under-geared compared to the other members of your raid?

Part 2: How are you feeling about your mage?

6) What is your average ilevel?
7) What quality of life problems are you seeing with your current specialization?
8) If you changed specializations, why did you change?
9) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's movement damage?
10) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's stand-still damage?
11) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's utility in raids?
12) If you could change one thing to improve your current spec, what would it be?

UPDATE: as mages from EU start raiding, you can post your answers/logs on the EU forum post that someone cross-posted: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6787179757#1
Edited by Lissanna on 3/6/2013 2:13 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
0
Part 1
  • 1. Frost
  • 2. ToT 10N
  • 3. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-l07y23suds61xx30/sum/damageDone/?s=3657&e=3947
  • 4. Changed from Arcane to Frost
  • 5. All dps in my raid is within 5 ilvls of one another
  • Part 2
  • 6. 493
  • 7.Frost seems to be fine QoL-wise. I'd love a glyph to add my WE's damage to myself and remove the pet, but that's just because I don't like pets.
  • 8.Arcane damage doesn't look very good and I enjoyed the Scorch Weaving rotation.
  • 9. Movement damage is fine; I use Ice Floes. I wish we had KJC but whatever
  • 10. Standstill damage is fine
  • 11. What raid utility
  • 12. Again, some way to not have to have a pet.
  • As an aside, my preferred spec is Fire, but until I get better gear, my damage is better as Frost. The biggest change that needs to happen to fire is CM scalability that decreases CM bonus as crit goes up. I recognize that it creates a soft crit cap but it's much more preferable than just straight up reducing CM everytime mages start to get too much crit.
    Reply Quote
    90 Human Mage
    5315
    Part 1: Show me the numbers:
    1) What is your current 5.2 specialization? - Currently Fire
    2) What type of content have you run in 5.2 (5-mans, solo, LFR, 10-normal, 25-normal, etc)? - Thus far only 5-mans and 5.0/1 LFR content.
    3) Link(s) to 5.2 raid logs on your mage (even LFR logs are useful): None available ATM.
    4) Did you change specializations for 5.2? If you changed specs for 5.2, what spec were you before? - Yes, changed from Arcane after some testing on dummies.
    5) Is your ilevel generally around the same range as your other raid members from the logs you posted? If not, are you over-geared or under-geared compared to the other members of your raid? - In LFR I find I'm typically a bit more geared than peers.

    Part 2: How are you feeling about your mage? - I'm feeling less effective in terms of DPS, and (of course) faael the RNG of Fire at my ilvl (read: low crit) hampers my ability to generate consistent and comparable DPS to my peers.

    6) What is your average ilevel? - 481~ish
    7) What quality of life problems are you seeing with your current specialization? - Low instance of crit, abysmal AOE capabilities. Zero utility to offer raid outside of DPS. Lackluster DPS compared to 5.1 in identical gear and fight instances.
    8) If you changed specializations, why did you change? Arcane was really throttled down in DPS potential, the rotation became mind-numbingly mundane with the removal of scorch weaving, RoP no longer viable forces me into an even worse lvl 90 talent.
    9) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's movement damage? - Better than Arcane, but still gimpy and limited to single target mobile damage.
    10) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's stand-still damage? - Lackluster, even when utilizing an optimal rotation.
    11) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's utility in raids? - Zero utility, honestly.
    12) If you could change one thing to improve your current spec, what would it be? - Trade-off crit% reliance for higher baseline spell damage. Reinstate cleave ability to spread dots to 3+ targets.
    Reply Quote
    90 Draenei Mage
    12105
    Part 1: Show me the numbers:
    1) What is your current 5.2 specialization?
    2) What type of content have you run in 5.2 (5-mans, solo, LFR, 10-normal, 25-normal, etc)?
    3) Link(s) to 5.2 raid logs on your mage (even LFR logs are useful):
    4) Did you change specializations for 5.2? If you changed specs for 5.2, what spec were you before?
    5) Is your ilevel generally around the same range as your other raid members from the logs you posted? If not, are you over-geared or under-geared compared to the other members of your raid?

    Part 2: How are you feeling about your mage?

    6) What is your average ilevel?
    7) What quality of life problems are you seeing with your current specialization?
    8) If you changed specializations, why did you change?
    9) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's movement damage?
    10) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's stand-still damage?
    11) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's utility in raids?
    12) If you could change one thing to improve your current spec, what would it be?


    1. Frost/fire/arcane. Jumping between them as i work through normals to see which i like the most.
    2. 10 ToT, 4/12 in the first day
    3. Not sure who uploaded logs this week. will post when i find out.
    4. Was arcane before.
    5. Lower by 4-5 ilvls.
    6. 504.96 (clost to 505)
    7. Arcane has problems with movement, frost still somewhat lacks when hard swapping targets, and fire with the nerd to inferno blast only spreading to one target makes it more useful to just tab/target for LB.
    8. I started as frost in 5.1, so i went back to it when 5.2 hit. Only played arcane because of the insane damage it was doing compared to the other specs. Liked the changes to frost, so i gave that a shot first.
    9. Arcane - Lacking due to the removal of scorch, having to use only ice lance or fireblast lowers the damage severely. Frost - Not to bad, but with the removal of the pet freeze, moving is more punishing if you don't have any FoF or BF procs waiting. Fire - Still the same. Scorch spam/inferno blast with instant pyros makes it pretty decent.
    10. Arcane - Turret, really decent. Frost - could be a bit better. Still lacking (may get better once i replace LoTC), Fire - BURN!!!
    11. Arcane - AB slow is the only useful thing really, as GI/Caut is for all specs. Frost - Due to pet freeze/DF, helped a lot on add fights for controlling them. Fire - pretty much same as arcane but with a bit worse useful ness. (no slow unless glyphed FFB)
    12. Arcane - Add a new ability, that is stronger based on number of charges and costs mana, but can be used while moving. But make it so it doesn't refresh the stacks. Fire - Change it back to Inferno blast spreading dots/bombs to 2 other targets instead of 1. Frost - add pet freeze granting FoF procs even if it doesn't snare.
    Reply Quote
    MVP - World of Warcraft
    90 Night Elf Druid
    11830
    Thank you Lissanna for making a thread like this. It will help alleviate and hopefully cut down the forum echo.

    Best of luck.


    You're welcome! I know that logs overall are going to be missing for most people who haven't had a chance to raid yet, but if people can fill in logs as they get them, I will probably let this sit until Sunday at the earliest before I start trying to compile any of the data.
    Reply Quote
    90 Night Elf Mage
    16990
    Hi there - thanks for reaching out to us! Many of us have a lot to say as the mage community is in dissaray right now. 5.2 is still new and some dust will settle, but the initial view isn't so great.

    Part 1:
    1) Frost
    2) Currently I am 5/12N 25M after the first night of raids. We were 10/16H 25-M in 5.1.
    3) See below:
      Megaera: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/73e1oqye4ntmnu1v/details/27/
      Tortos: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-06lgz8rnj61oaakk/details/7/

    4) Always frost ;) I've been trying to be a voice in the frost community.
    5) I'm on the higher end but we're all 503-512.

    Part 2:
    6) 511
    7) I'm going to try to keep this concise:
      Ramp-up time on the frostbolt debuff is a tax that encourages bad play. Target switching is what gets a lot of encounters down and even though we can multidot, we sacrifice a lot of DPS on fights like Horridon if we do the fight "correctly."
      Further encouraging bad play are the Level 90 talents. I think people have done a good job tearing these apart. I'm just adding my voice to it-- they're a punishment not a reward.
      Frost bomb will never be used seriously (only for fun) because of the clunky cast time and as more haste is obtained, NT continues to dominate it. Further, we get trinkets that play to our strengths yet we can only use NT to activate them (LotC, BotH).
      Haste already GCD caps us during burst. By the end of heroic gearing we will not be benefiting from additional haste.
      Crit will be capped entirely and provide no additional benefit in heroic gear.
      Mastery has next to no use, WE water bolt damage isn't enough.

    8) I will forever be frost, even if the dark ages of Dragon Soul return. I endure bad specs, I don't change.
    9) Honestly I think it's fine. Our first tier talents are fun, flavorful, and allow for a variety of approaches to movement. The L90 talents can be woven in without as much complaint as the community allows, but it is taxing, punishing, and negatively impacts gameplay.
    10) Stand-still "feels" fine, but see my points above about ramp-up and feeling encouraged to intentionally do fights incorrectly in order to maintain reasonable DPS.
    11) We lack utility. In an age of hybrids and glorified warlocks, mages don't bring much to the table-- except a table, which doesn't really do anything but save people a few silver each night.
    12) Address any or all of the items I've covered in point 7. I love frost mages, and I'll always play a frost mage. However, it's exceedingly frustrating to stay competitive as one. We pull our hair out, have a very high room for error, and cannot recover DPS whenever we have to do any target switches or mechanics in a fight.
    Edited by Akraen on 3/6/2013 10:01 AM PST
    Reply Quote
    Part 1

    1 - Frost
    2 - 10N
    3 - Horridon only. Jin didn't record :( http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-hkvdjccp29up85rb/sum/damageDone/?s=3228&e=3472
    4 - Changed from Arcane to Frost. Intention for Fire with crit gear
    5 - All dps is within 4 ilvls of each other. I do not feel competitive with my fellow dpsers.

    Part 2

    6 - 501
    7 - I like the quicker response of frost, seeing biggers numbers then previous patch. I do not like my lack of AoE compared to other specs.
    8 - Didn't care for the rotation in 5.2, or that to put out good numbers you had to be planted.
    9 - It's mostly fine. I do not care for the debuff requirement in ToT. There are many multi target fights, I feel pentalized compared to multi dot dps specs.
    10 - It's fine. Same concern as above.
    11 - Only utility I know of is: ice block. Can be useful to help healers during progression fights.
    12 - Improve damage, and bring back freeze. I miss it, it was very helpful on adds and soloing.

    In summery: After my first raid night, I'm exceptionally concerned about my performance and "fun" playing on my mage.
    I'm 20% below my fellow dps'ers on a multi target fight. With our lackluster AoE, why bring a mage?
    I dont like adding my voice to others that have said, "why bring a mage, when other classes are so much better." But the fact that I'm wondering if I have to reroll to have fun, is a major concern.
    Edited by Kiriel on 3/6/2013 10:06 AM PST
    Reply Quote
    Edit on 3-7-13 to add suggestion for fire under #10.

    Part 1: Show me the numbers:
    1) What is your current 5.2 specialization? Fire
    2) What type of content have you run in 5.2 (5-mans, solo, LFR, 10-normal, 25-normal, etc)? ToT 1st boss
    3) Link(s) to 5.2 raid logs on your mage (even LFR logs are useful):
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-lbikruzoj5csi4ku/sum/damageDone/?s=1020&e=1286
    4) Did you change specializations for 5.2? If you changed specs for 5.2, what spec were you before? No, have been sticking to fire spec since 5.0
    5) Is your ilevel generally around the same range as your other raid members from the logs you posted? If not, are you over-geared or under-geared compared to the other members of your raid? Yes
    Part 2: How are you feeling about your mage?
    6) What is your average ilevel? 500
    7) What quality of life problems are you seeing with your current specialization? Severely underperforming. I might be overreacting, however on some wipes in ToT 2nd boss, my dps on the meter was 7k above our DK tank.
    8) If you changed specializations, why did you change? Didn't change
    9) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's movement damage? Average. I mean, I can dps while on the move, but the dps overall is a huge concern.
    10) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's stand-still damage? Severely underperforming. It is worth mentioning that pure ST dmg of fire is fairly low, how we came more or less competitive in 5.1 raids is by spreading the love (dots) on multiple targets. All fights (except Blade Lord) allow us to do so. This was a required step to find ourselves once again after combustion nerf. Taking away dot spread (and LB spread) is affecting our dps in a negative way.
    11) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's utility in raids? I feel that my class doesn't bring anything useful to the raid. Lust can be done by other classes, and my dps is, well, laughable.
    12) If you could change one thing to improve your current spec, what would it be? Remove lvl 90 talents. All of them.
    Edited by Vortune on 3/7/2013 9:23 AM PST
    Reply Quote
    MVP - World of Warcraft
    90 Night Elf Druid
    11830
    It would be interesting to see the progression of gear scaling as more and more groups clear ToT. Will the issues go away and the situation improves or will it stay the same and get worse?

    Might as well keep a record of the first few days/weeks of raiding just in case some guilds delete their older logs. Just a thought.

    Getting data from the first week or two of the patch can be helpful in terms of figuring out if the mass panic is based in real data or psychological/cultural factors in the community that have people spooked. If I can help disentangle those things, it increases the probability of getting fixes. I did the same survey thing for resto druids in Cataclysm when we went through a really rough patch of healing, and that was actually really helpful data for everyone involved.
    Edited by Lissanna on 3/6/2013 10:19 AM PST
    Reply Quote
    90 Blood Elf Mage
    10440
    Part 1

    1. Fire
    2. ToT Normal
    3. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/lsdmfm9qij8j39dz/details/7/
    4. I did change to Fire. I was Arcane before.
    5. This is a new guild so I didn't really check. Just based on mouseover using my ElvUI I seem to be about 5 ilvls higher than my guildies. I should be overgeared for the current content.

    Part 2

    6. 500
    7. The first problem is we lack quality AoE which leads to the 2nd QoL issue. NT is insanely better than the alternatives. LB doesn't scale well with haste so at my gear level, its hilariously behind NT, even multi target. Frostbomb just flat out sucks. As far as I can tell, our AoE rotation is CoC, DB, Flamestrike, but only after you've multidotted with NT. The payoff for having to press this many buttons is pretty crap compared to Warlocks and Hunters who both humiliate our AoE DPS and have less buttons to press to get those numbers. Fire is also ridiculously disproportionately affected by gear scaling.
    8. I switched because Arcane is dead. The new Arcane has no mana management, no proc management, no burst windows, no mobility, no cleave, no AoE. The rotation doesn't just do piss poor DPS, its embarrassingly behind literally every other raid DPS spec in the game in every area important to serious raiding.
    9. My movement damage is fine. I don't feel overly penalized and due to Scorch being baseline, Fire is now less affected by movement than before. We're still hit harder by movement than pretty much any other class, but Fire isn't so far behind like Frost and Arcane that I count it as a serious design oversight.
    10. Stand still is low. This is due to gear scaling and I will catch up.
    11. What utility? We have no utility.
    12. If there was one thing I'd like? Its utility. If its just one spell, make it a good one like... Temporal Shift - heals back 30% of the damage the raid takes over 6 seconds. 2-3 minute CD.
    Reply Quote
    90 Undead Mage
    10590
    Part 1: Show me the numbers:
    1) Fire
    2) 10 man normal
    3) Guilds logs bugged but I did msv/HoF with a PuG.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/2c7sd7szk0jp7fsf/sum/damageDone/?s=1138&e=1456
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/mv6tgo1ieoerk3oc/dashboard/?s=500&e=738
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/mv6tgo1ieoerk3oc/dashboard/?s=8085&e=8520
    4) Been fire since DS
    5) ilvl are all very close together

    Part 2: How are you feeling about your mage?
    6) 494
    7) Not much AoE and no raid utility
    8) Didn't change
    9) I feel like my movement damage is decent for single target
    10) Feels a little lackluster
    11) Feel like I bring zero raid utility
    12) Better AoE and more raid utility would be nice
    Edited by Supersqueeze on 3/10/2013 3:51 PM PDT
    Reply Quote
    90 Troll Mage
    9535
    Part 1: Show me the numbers:
    1) What is your current 5.2 specialization? Fire
    2) What type of content have you run in 5.2 (5-mans, solo, LFR, 10-normal, 25-normal, etc)? 10n TOT 2/12 boss
    3) Link(s) to 5.2 raid logs on your mage (even LFR logs are useful): na
    4) Did you change specializations for 5.2? If you changed specs for 5.2, what spec were you before? Didn't change, was hoping with 5.2 crit gear fire will scale to be fun again
    5) Is your ilevel generally around the same range as your other raid members from the logs you posted? If not, are you over-geared or under-geared compared to the other members of your raid? My current raid overgears me, avg raid member is around ilv 500

    Part 2: How are you feeling about your mage?

    6) What is your average ilevel? 491 last night for raid, 494 now with vp buys post raid
    7) What quality of life problems are you seeing with your current specialization? Pure DPS classes with low utility and mid to low DPS are not attractive
    8) If you changed specializations, why did you change? NA but might consider Frost/Arc if I can't pull my dps up
    9) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's movement damage? Better than some ranged classes/spec but still very very punishing to move, especially with lowered cleave ability and crap AOE
    10) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's stand-still damage? For a pure DPS class its very underwhelming, CM nerf (from 5.0), Combust nerf (5.1 hotfix), Pyro nerf (5.2), Cleave nerf (LB spread 5.2) all combine to me working very hard to maximize my DPS only to be out performed by many hybrid classes as well as most pure dps classes. Very disapointing
    11) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's utility in raids? We have utility? Other classes, hybrid or pure have so much more and don't even get me started on the amazing toolkit bliz gave to Locks..
    12) If you could change one thing to improve your current spec, what would it be? We need some useable CC in raids again (ring doesn't stop anything worth mentioning anymore) but most of all, we need extra utility and regain some of the dps bliz's ham sized fist knocked off us.
    Edited by Shattermage on 3/6/2013 1:19 PM PST
    Reply Quote
    90 Troll Mage
    11580
    i will be posting my data on friday =p
    Reply Quote
    90 Undead Mage
    7530
    03/06/2013 10:19 AMPosted by Lissanna
    Getting data from the first week or two of the patch can be helpful in terms of figuring out if the mass panic is based in real data or psychological/cultural factors in the community that have people spooked.


    Yeah, cause the Mage community just gets spooked...

    I know you're new around here Lissanna, but one of the wonderful things about Mages is that we don't spook. When we say something is horrible, it's not because we're confused and don't understand what's happening. It's because it's horrible.
    Reply Quote
    90 Blood Elf Mage
    10440

    Agreed, Lissanna. I've seen logs of mages doing good numbers and I have also seen logs with them being near the middle or the bottom. Don't know if there is a learning curve to the fights as of now.


    For me its a bit of both. My kill attempt the tank didn't understand what a 5 second countdown was and pulled while I was evocating so I didn't get to pre-pot. I was also still torn on whether to wait for the water buff or use my CD's off the pull, I chose the former and have since discovered that was the wrong thing to do. I also got unlucky with the lightning balls during my 2nd burst window 90 seconds in and ended up delaying so long I needed to wait for my Alter Time cooldown as a result. A lot went wrong in my kill attempt that could have gone better and I expect next week to parse much higher.

    03/06/2013 10:31 AMPosted by Sethmann
    Getting data from the first week or two of the patch can be helpful in terms of figuring out if the mass panic is based in real data or psychological/cultural factors in the community that have people spooked.


    Yeah, cause the Mage community just gets spooked...

    I know you're new around here Lissanna, but one of the wonderful things about Mages is that we don't spook. When we say something is horrible, it's not because we're confused and don't understand what's happening. It's because it's horrible.


    She's actually not new. And she's the saner and more realistic of the two MVP's that wander around here.
    Edited by Medívh on 3/6/2013 10:36 AM PST
    Reply Quote
    90 Undead Mage
    7530
    She's actually not new. And she's the saner and more realistic of the two MVP's that wander around here.


    She's new to Mages.
    Reply Quote
    90 Blood Elf Mage
    11000
    03/06/2013 10:31 AMPosted by Sethmann
    I know you're new around here Lissanna, but one of the wonderful things about Mages is that we don't spook. When we say something is horrible, it's not because we're confused and don't understand what's happening.


    Hahahaha.
    Reply Quote

    Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

    Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

    Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

    Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

    Forums Code of Conduct

    Report Post # written by

    Reason
    Explain (256 characters max)
    Submit Cancel

    Reported!

    [Close]