Mage 5.2 PVE raiding survey

90 Troll Mage
9535
Not my log but one of the lock posters showed a high end guild's logs from last night.The fire mage placed 3rd or 4th on most fights and was close behind the locks and boomkin.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-w200g97qc51n0fek/sum/damageDone/?s=6728&e=7290

Agreed, Lissanna. I've seen logs of mages doing good numbers and I have also seen logs with them being near the middle or the bottom. Don't know if there is a learning curve to the fights as of now.

Some other good logs I would recommend would be Digerati's logs (can't think of his guild name atm) and Promethean's logs. I have suggested those to be good records of the potential of mages given the midst of "sky is falling" mentality.

Unfortunately, some people have disregarded those. Maybe having someone else atest to them would be good.


Kongfuzi -

Please, please, please don't post here. The idea is to gather mage data on the current state of mages, not make this a "Are mages ok or not" agrument. Please don't make this another "Mages are fine, stop QQing" thread/post, were simply gathering data and giving personal perspective, just leave it out or at least post on your mage... You have now posted several times and provided none of the data requested while saying the same thing, its redundant. We know what you think and why, now lets move on?
Edited by Shattermage on 3/6/2013 10:49 AM PST
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90 Draenei Mage
13735
Thank you Lissanna for making a thread like this. It will help alleviate and hopefully cut down the forum echo.

Best of luck.


Raiding ToT with the guildmates tonight, so will try to contribute with data.

I just also have to thank you for this. I'm currently levelling a druid as well, so I'm familiar with your posts/guides on the druid forums. I've always really liked what you posted.
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MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Night Elf Druid
11830
03/06/2013 10:44 AMPosted by Kongfuzi
It could be forum echo. Just got to see as people progress and get better gear.


The best way to sort between forum echo and real problems is to have real data. These surveys I do for the classes draws off my Psychology PhD background, so I turn them into very pretty results for the devs/CMs when I have a large enough sample size. My big resto druid survey in Cataclysm actually got a ton of great data that I was able to use to ask for important and targeted changes, to specific aspects of resto druids, that were indeed broken (and were being disguised by general forum echo problems which were confounding several problems together and making it impossible to fix).

If the problem for mages only arises for people who switched specs, we can find out that there is a gear/learning curve problem that should be corrected with improved gear & skill. If the problem also happens for people who didn't switch specs (in that numbers across the board went down), then it's a problem that the devs need to fix. If none of the logs support what people are saying, then that is important data, too, because it says that there is a perception problem that can be fixed by changing cultural issues within the forums here and changing how we post about the class and present ourselves to others (e.g., sometimes raid leaders are afraid to take risks on people when the masses have something against the class, even if the class isn't broken). Being able to distinguish between different possible sources of a problem is the only way classes ever get fixed.

People keep posting theories and hypotheses about the current state of mages, but at this point, no one really knows for sure because the patch hasn't been out long enough for us to have a good representative sample of data across different skill levels, specs, gear, etc.

Overall, mages filling out the survey are doing a really great job. Please lets keep it in the survey format as much as possible. Lets try to keep discussion happening in the other discussion threads available.
Edited by Lissanna on 3/6/2013 11:11 AM PST
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90 Troll Mage
9535
Granted I could have reworded that differently.

But the logs I am refering to are just what the intent of this thread has in mind. Lissanna is asking for more proof on the current state of mages and I am doing that.

Sharing what logs I have seen to help get to the bottom of the issue.

I haven't posted anything trollish in this forum so far. Just ideas and logs.

(Can't change my profile pic atm) my mage is Eazybake of Khaz Modan Horde in case you are wondering.


So let those players post their logs and their impressions? STOP TROLLING
Edited by Shattermage on 3/6/2013 10:51 AM PST
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Part 1: Show me the numbers:
1) Fire
2) 10m - semi-hardcore
3) www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-m1eknaqlz69ah6yz/sum/damageDone/
4) Arcane in 5.1 ----> Fire in 5.2
5) My iLVL is on par

Part 2: How are you feeling about your mage?

6) 503
7) The RNG swing is massive, one pull I'm on top and the next 10 I'm behind the tanks
8) Lower top end DPS but make output more consistent
9) Movement is great
10) Fine
11) I don't bring much, on the off chance that stuff is standing next to other stuff I do good dos.
12) Mentioned above, lower top end DPS but make output more consistent

Additional thoughts:
I get that they balanced fire for the end game where players are in full tier15 + crit gear. This means that at the start of the patch my output is going to be lacking. On the other hand frost isn't doing much better and arcane is gone. Which means that my guild has a choice:

1. Bench me completely for progression which means I get to sit out and wait until stuff is on farm (what's the point?)
2. Carry me through early progression so maybe I can be helpful during late HM progress

As a mage that was topping the meters and ranking top20 worldwide on fights it's extremely disheartening to be pulled into a raid only to be middle of the pack and fighting to stay above the tanks. Granted it's day one and I'm just starting to get back into playing fire but it's a crappy start.
Edited by Particle on 3/6/2013 10:59 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17040
Part 1:
1) Fire
2) As of today (3/6) I've just done the new dailies, the solo treasure room scenario, and the first boss in ToT
3) Unfortunately we didn't log our kill of the first ToT boss last night, but I will attempt to edit and post logs for other bosses later
4) I switched from Arcane to Fire.
5) My ilvl (before getting two pieces of gear last night) was about the same as the rest of the people in my raid

Part 2:
6) Was about 496 going into last night, is now 500
7) My main QoL problems are (1) non-Combustion cleave AoE is terrible; (2) I still feel like my crits are sometimes a bit gimped, which leads long stretches of slow fireball casts with no Pyros. That is more than a little frustrating.
8) I switched from Arcane because Arcane is so bad it is beyond belief to me. And I don't just mean numbers on a training dummy. Nothing about it makes any sense. With RoP mana regen nerfed, and the massive increase to mana costs at full stacks, it takes almost no Arcane Blasts for mana to drop like a stone. Taking Invocation is likewise of no help because evocating drops stacks. There is no way to play this spec without Arcane Blast being at low damage. It is now at low damage *all the time*. The optimal way, it seemed to me, to play this awful spec was 5XBlast --> Missle or Barrage. Over and over and over. Nothing else, ever. Zero mana management, completely boring. Terrible damage. This is not something that can be fixed by better gear or more practice. If the developers didn't like Arcane mages using scorch as a filler, they should have just removed scorch and kept everything else the way it was.
9) Movement damage: seems to be ok - better than it was as arcane. Of course it is nowhere near the hunters or warlocks I raid with.
10) Regarding stand still damage, it is not terrible. But I would say it is sometimes marginal, or not good enough, or average. Take your pick of adjective. I'm also annoyed that it is *lower* than it was on Monday.
11) Re: utility, we have a shaman, so Time Warp doesn't really matter. I bring no other utility.
12) I would revert some portion of the 5.1 CM nerf and find a different way to deal with alleged future scaling issues. (I know you said one thing, but I'm giving a couple). I would also improve AoE by buffing flamestrike, making it once again baseline instant for Fire, and making Inferno Blast spread Living Bomb again.
Edited by Taymage on 3/6/2013 4:30 PM PST
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90 Human Mage
9195
Hey guys,
Part 1: Show me the numbers:
1) What is your current 5.2 specialization?
2) What type of content have you run in 5.2 (5-mans, solo, LFR, 10-normal, 25-normal, etc)?
3) Link(s) to 5.2 raid logs on your mage (even LFR logs are useful):
4) Did you change specializations for 5.2? If you changed specs for 5.2, what spec were you before?
5) Is your ilevel generally around the same range as your other raid members from the logs you posted? If not, are you over-geared or under-geared compared to the other members of your raid?

Part 2: How are you feeling about your mage?

6) What is your average ilevel?
7) What quality of life problems are you seeing with your current specialization?
8) If you changed specializations, why did you change?
9) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's movement damage?
10) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's stand-still damage?
11) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's utility in raids?
12) If you could change one thing to improve your current spec, what would it be?


1) Fire
2) Hof 10 (our healers hard drive got fried so no tot for me till next week)
3) http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-uur41huoss3ad6ku/
3.5) http://www.raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/magtheridon/lfgismagical/
4) No
5) Yes, other than a lock who we have been gearing up for a better comp for 5.2 and a holy pally

6) 497
7) Cleave tends to be horrible. On Wind lord i tried to keep up 2-3 NT's on adds and nuke kill target in between. Due to rng and whatever it wasn't really effective and i was pulling 40-60k less damage than i normally would at that point in the fight. Switched to Frostbomb and I immediately saw results during the add phase and was pulling similiar numbers to what i was used too. Obviously, with Frostbomb there were occurances where my cm would fall off because the add i bombed died and the next target wouldn't have cm on it. Ultimately, frostbomb on windlord accounted for me ending the fight 20k dps behind my normal.
8) Did not change
9) Movement damage is fine. Damage while moving shouldn't ever be as good when compared to turreting. The fact scorch is baseline for fire its pretty awesome. Other specs movement kills arcane to the point of nothingness, and frost is able to cope but not nearly as well as fire.
10) Considering avg rng its middle of the pack. With exceptional rng i can be king. Ultimately, the most disappointing part of fire right now is combustion. I feel it can be alot better.
11) There is no utilty raid wise other than dmg soaking every 2 min or so. Personally, blink to save me from amber traps and the like is huge but doesn't really count in raid utility.
12) Give back fires cleave with LB.
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90 Gnome Mage
13615
Hey guys,
Now that 5.2 is here, there is a lot of angst and worry happening in the mage forum. For me to be able to go to the community managers with mage problems, I need data. I've done this type of thing before when I was raiding on a druid, but now that I'm raiding as a frost mage, I have a great deal invested in mages being viable now.

To be able to take data to the community managers & developers, I need actual World of Log data from your raids.

Specifically, it would be helpful if you filled out the answers to the following questions and posted it here:

Part 1: Show me the numbers:
1) What is your current 5.2 specialization?
2) What type of content have you run in 5.2 (5-mans, solo, LFR, 10-normal, 25-normal, etc)?
3) Link(s) to 5.2 raid logs on your mage (even LFR logs are useful):
4) Did you change specializations for 5.2? If you changed specs for 5.2, what spec were you before?
5) Is your ilevel generally around the same range as your other raid members from the logs you posted? If not, are you over-geared or under-geared compared to the other members of your raid?

Part 2: How are you feeling about your mage?

6) What is your average ilevel?
7) What quality of life problems are you seeing with your current specialization?
8) If you changed specializations, why did you change?
9) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's movement damage?
10) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's stand-still damage?
11) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's utility in raids?
12) If you could change one thing to improve your current spec, what would it be?


Side note, all we were able to down in ToT was Jin'Rokh, and we didn't get far enough on Horridon to do anything of value. My WoL DPS for our Jin'Rokh kill was 114586.5 (112862.6 DPSe). Do note that it was my first time playing Frost in a long time and something messed up my power auras so I was trying to create Weak Auras in between attempts, which resulted in my not being as good as I could have been about spell cooldowns, because I'm bad like that.

1) Frost.
2) Thus far in 5.2, pretty much just about an hour and a half of ToT, and another hour and a half or so where we cleared ToES.
3) Jin'Rokh: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/j3bks8hipzmek9q3/analyze/dd/source/?s=2347&e=2663
ToES: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-pjm2m97ozipcf70k/analyze/dd/source/?s=7833&e=8522
4) Was Arcane until yesterday
5) Our DPS is within the 488 - 495 range. Our Melee dps tends to have higher ilvls. Mine is slightly higher than our Warlock's, making me just the highest rdps ilvl.

----
6) My ilvl is 491.
7) Frost is an extraordinarily boring spec to me. There is never any question of what you should be doing, everything is dominated by cooldowns and procs. Fire has at least a little adventure to it in whether you should blow Combustion when it's up or wait for a potentially huge Ignite. Arcane has the most 'intuition,' feel to it, which I prefer. The elemental also serves little more than a cosmetic purpose, although it was nice that he could freeze some of the adds in the Horridon encounter, granting extra FoF buffs. I do have to say that 1 minute Invocation is a significant QoL increase, but I will take it as an insult to player feedback if the entire level 90 talent tier isn't completely remade by 6.0, because all of them are wholly unejoyable.
8) When I couldn't pass 50k dps on a target dummy (self buffed, no cooldowns) as Arcane, I decided to bite the bullet and go Frost. I am looking forward to getting higher ilvl gear from ToT to go Fire, but am more looking forward to the MoP Mage Nerf Boomerang coming in 5.3, because it may be accompanied with Arcane buffs.
9) Frost has decent POTENTIAL for movement damage, but there is little control over whether or not you will have any of your instants available when it is time to move (in this case, Ice Lance is considered unavailable without a FoF proc), assuming you want to be maximizing dps when standing still (and thus not saving FoF, BF, and FO). Despite the new changes, I find Ice Floes to still be clunky and awkward, but find that Blazing Speed is a nice alternative, suffering through about 1.5 seconds of probably no casting, but being able to put serious distance between me and whatever puddle just spawned under me. I think it will severely hurt in encounters where 'following' void zones will target me, however. I don't think that will be a problem until Magaera, though.
10) Well, I pulled higher DPS as Arcane on Monday than I did as Frost on Tuesday, but I'm not about to argue that Arcane's damage was balanced (though I think it was hideously overnerfed). Standing still DPS seems decent enough as Frost for the time being.
11) Pretty sure mages are the most useless class utility-wise in raids, followed by a very close second with rogues. Time Warp is about all we get, and we have two shammys in our 10man roster so there is never really a shortage of that, so I'm basically a vending machine, and even then, people normally just eat the banquet we put out. I would like to see mages get some sort of unique utility that the raid can use in combat (on par with the demonic gate and healthstone that locks - our most obvious comparison - can bring).
12) The whole 'treat your target as if it were frozen' mechanic has gotten disgustingly out of hand. In a PvE environment, FoF might as well read 'causes Ice Lance to do more dps than Frostbolt,' given that you can't Deep Freeze bosses, and Ice Lance damage without "frozen" targets is pathetic. It would mean a complete overhaul to mage PvP, but I'd like to see a Frost that actually had some sort of consistent sense applied to it, and not this mishmash of randomly and partially changing what spells do based on what buffs you have active.
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90 Pandaren Mage
7170
Part 1: Show me the numbers:
1) What is your current 5.2 specialization?
Frost; Inovcation/Frost Bomb (occasionally NT depending on the fight).

2) What type of content have you run in 5.2 (5-mans, solo, LFR, 10-normal, 25-normal, etc)?
Heroic hardcore. 16/16 Heroic pre 5.2.

3) Link(s) to 5.2 raid logs on your mage (even LFR logs are useful): Spirit Kings: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-zfe5outnap5f6e52/sum/damageDone/?s=11056&e=11496#Boxedwaffle

Gara'jal: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-zfe5outnap5f6e52/sum/damageDone/?s=10361&e=10619#Boxedwaffle

Feng: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-x16zot1fv9odx11i/sum/damageDone/?s=745&e=1050#Boxedwaffle

4) Did you change specializations for 5.2? If you changed specs for 5.2, what spec were you before?
I was arcane until content was on farm. I then went frost because of the way arcane looked in 5.2

5) Is your ilevel generally around the same range as your other raid members from the logs you posted? If not, are you over-geared or under-geared compared to the other members of your raid?
We were all at about 504-509 ilvl. We all knew the fights.

Part 2: How are you feeling about your mage?
Frustrated. Mages went from Ice Cube circa NWA to Disney Channel Ice Cube since the patch. Nerfing arcane was warranted. We were too good as RoP arcane in 5.1. However, despite the fact that mages are a dps class, we're bottom tier. There's no reason to bring a mage over a warlock: They have a higher single target damage output along with the ability to dot up multiple mobs; they can cast while moving; they have an insanely high health pool along with Dark Bargain, which make them more progression friendly.

Furthermore, frost has quite possibly the worst scaling I've ever encountered. Despite haste being our most prioritized secondary stat, we get the same use out of it that other classes do - if not less (A side from reducing the CD on frost bomb and the time it takes for it to go boom - which is basically a way to compensate for it being a psuedodot, and reducing the cast time of our frostbolts, haste does relatively nothing for us). Crit's the same way. Other than the occasional harder hits, we get nothing out of it. Mastery's another issue for PvE because (other than the occasional ice lance or frostfire bolt) we're not shattering our targets.

Put that in perspective to fire: Critting gives more pyros - which means more damage. Another component to the pyros is the ignite, which is modified by haste (get that extra tick) and mastery (which increases the ignite damage). Also, combustion's dot is able to crit. While crit is the most valuable stat for a fire mage, the rest of their stats work well together.

For arcane: Mastery increases all damage caused (depending on your mana) and haste increases mana regen (this is uniform for all mage specs, but we don't have mana problems with fire or frost, just arcane). Crit however, just makes abilities hit harder on occasion - nothing too substantial.

6) What is your average ilevel?
512.

7) What quality of life problems are you seeing with your current specialization?
Having to keep invocation up along with moving around everywhere and trying to use all my fingers of frost procs along with the brain freeze procs on AoE encounters.

8) If you changed specializations, why did you change?
Arcane felt like trash; fire is too RNG dependent for my taste (even though, I'll ultimately have to spec fire later in the tier because of how awful frost scaling is); and frost is the most fun I've had as a mage.

9) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's movement damage?
It's disgusting and infuriating.

10) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's stand-still damage?
Far better than moving, but unless it's a quick trash pack, and I have frozen orb up, it's pretty poor; single target boss damage is depressing.

11) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's utility in raids?
What utility? We have none.

12) If you could change one thing to improve your current spec, what would it be?
I recognize that you said one thing, but here's a small list:

1. Give us an aura where we can convert our haste into an instance where our spells diverge into three hits where the haste modifies the damage done by each of those hits as a percentage of the whole (With zero haste, it'd be 33.3% per hit; each point of haste increases the damage). Or: Every haste that takes us below the GCD converts to % damage, similar to chaos bolt and crit.

2. Do something with the water elemental pet. Every 3 ice lances allows us to transform our water elemental into a more powerful version (with stronger abilities). This would make mastery more useful.

3. Have haste reduce the cooldown of frozen orb.

4. Allow us to deep freeze bosses - makes mastery more useful.

5. Make pet freeze generate a fingers of frost proc even when the target's not frozen.
Edited by Boxedwaffle on 3/6/2013 1:02 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Mage
13625
1) Fire.
2) Some 25m N ToT, some questing.
3) http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-0jjznz90d6wvc0vo/sum/damageDone/?s=1160&e=1406
4) Yes, I've been arcane for quite a long time now, but switched for raid last night.
5) I'm in the middle-to-low section of our group since I joined the raid team in December (thus missing lots of tasty heroic loots).

6) 504

7) The fact that I'm not super amazing at it!

That aside, I don't really feel magey anymore. I like that my job is dps and I was dang good at it. During last night's raid however, I was hoping I would be switched out for a different player, because I knew other people were more useful. It was a sad realization. Granted, I was playing a spec I haven't played in two years, but I did practice this week and built up all my auras, etc.

8) The arcane nerfs seemed a bit much. Every other mage on our roster went fire, and I felt the need to do so as well. I regret that now, though, and may just return to arcane since I'm already at the bottom of the charts, might as well play my preferred spec.

9) Very decent, but fire has always been good about that, relatively speaking.

10) Eh. It feels weak, like I'm tickling the boss instead of blasting him with magical energy.

11) Ha. I feel like mages' utility came from the pew pew pew and not much else. Buffs? Warlock, shaman, fdruid can cover us. Time Warp? Nah, grab a shaman or core hound. Help for healers? There are no shouts, no banners, no ancestral guidance, etc etc.

12) Utility. Give raid leaders a reason to want a mage in their group.

----
I feel like I'm QQing a bit too much since it's so early, but last night was not the most impressive showing for the 4 mages that were rotated in.
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90 Worgen Mage
12410
Part 1:
1) Arcane (haste build) and frost
2) Throne of Thunder 10 man. First boss down, plus lots of attempts on second boss.
3) http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/d977gxhcrykc3nnq/sum/damageDone/?s=2856&e=3147
4) In 5.1 I was primarily arcane spec. After several attempts on the first boss, plus my experience with target dummy testing of rotations, it was immediately apparent that arcane is no longer viable. Now on a Patchwerk style fight, arcane is barely middle of the pack. And the moment any kind of movement is required, arcane's damage drops to last place barely above the tanks. I was forced to swap to frost spec for the remainder of the raid.
5) My ilevel is around the same level as everyone else in my raid.

Part 2:
6) ilevel 497
7) Arcane no longer puts out viable numbers even when standing still and suffers a more severe dps drop than any other spec when movement is required. Throne fights seem to require lots of movement. Arcane Blast does too little damage for its mana cost and having nothing to cast while moving except ice lance and occasional arcane barrage isn't sufficient.

8) I changed specialization to frost because arcane's dps was far too low. With frost on the first boss I still was low (4th place), but was higher than I was with arcane (5th place). Last tier I was often first place. Arcane is also unusable on the second boss due to the very large number of adds which must be killed. Frost is much better for cleave fights.

9) Frost movement damage is low and unpredictable, especially since I can no longer use Freeze to force fingers of frost procs, making the spec feel very random. If I don't have any FoF or Brain Freeze Procs and need to move all I can do is cast extremely low damage ice lances and fireblast. This is one reason why my dps output on the first boss was so low. With the removal of scorch, Arcane's movement damage is basically non-existent and is a major factor in rendering the spec unusable.

10) Both frost and arcane seem to have rather low single-target stand-still damage. Using both specs I was signficantly below the top 3 dps in the raid, something that definitely wasn't the case last tier with arcane. However, frost stand-still damage gets quite high if I get a lucky string of procs and on very short fights when Frozen Orb is up. Frost stand-still damage even becomes high in cleave fights with multiple adds. In contrast, Arcane stand-still damage is just low period and never becomes good under any circumstances.

11) Utility in raids: Frost: quite good for AOE / cleave fights. Second tier damage on single-target fights. Damage suffers much more than other classes on movement fights. Arcane: useless in AOE / cleave fights. Useless in movement fights. Second tier damage on single-target zero movement fights. This spec is now utterly useless for raiding and has basically zero utility.

12) Frost: spec feels too random. Gameplay is basically just spamming one spell while hoping for 1 of 2 procs then pressing the right button in reaction to each proc. Player has very little control over the damage. Damage while moving is extremely low unless used with a random proc, which isn't always possible. Needs water elemental freeze or water jet back to make the spec more interactive.

Arcane: mana cost of arcane blast is too high and damage is too low. Spec has zero utility and zero mobile dps. Even under ideal conditions dps output doesn't rise above mediocre. Remove cooldown from arcane barrage so arcane mages have something to spam while moving. Increase damage of arcane blast, arcane missiles and arcane barrage. If the spec is going to be severely punished under non-ideal conditions it should at least perform well under ideal conditions.
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Honestly.. I don't think any of the devs even have a mage.. so all I ask is that you take my mage.. bend him over.. and you fill in the rest because that's all you haven't done yet to my mage.
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5 Dwarf Paladin
0
I don't have logs, but on Monday our raid group was on 2nd boss of HoF and with same composition on Tuesday (with 2 mages), each mages dps/dmg was down around 20 to 25%. The boss was bugged on tuesday to not have the 10% debuff on himself, so it was a good comparison. One mage was cussing so much...One mage went from around 70k dps on monday to 56k no his best pull on tuesday. And the other mage went from 65k dps on monday to 51k on best pull. The first few pulls were ridiculous and the dmg done on one mage was lower than the tanks.

A friend was in the new raid and the best mage on our server was in there doing lowest dps on first boss. (of the dps classes...higher than tanks obviously)
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90 Human Mage
13865
Hey guys,
Now that 5.2 is here, there is a lot of angst and worry happening in the mage forum. For me to be able to go to the community managers with mage problems, I need data. I've done this type of thing before when I was raiding on a druid, but now that I'm raiding as a frost mage, I have a great deal invested in mages being viable now.

To be able to take data to the community managers & developers, I need actual World of Log data from your raids.

Specifically, it would be helpful if you filled out the answers to the following questions and posted it here:

Part 1: Show me the numbers:
1) What is your current 5.2 specialization?
2) What type of content have you run in 5.2 (5-mans, solo, LFR, 10-normal, 25-normal, etc)?
3) Link(s) to 5.2 raid logs on your mage (even LFR logs are useful):
4) Did you change specializations for 5.2? If you changed specs for 5.2, what spec were you before?
5) Is your ilevel generally around the same range as your other raid members from the logs you posted? If not, are you over-geared or under-geared compared to the other members of your raid?

Part 2: How are you feeling about your mage?

6) What is your average ilevel?
7) What quality of life problems are you seeing with your current specialization?
8) If you changed specializations, why did you change?
9) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's movement damage?
10) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's stand-still damage?
11) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's utility in raids?
12) If you could change one thing to improve your current spec, what would it be?


I'll just go to part 2 before and raid..

6.~500

7.Arcane mastery synergize poorly with 90s talent. With 5.2 changes to arcane, arcane consumes way more mana than it was in 5.1. But RoP mana reg is nerfed and IW is unchanged. While Evocation seems provide more mana, that 1min duriation and damage boost change from 25% to 15% simply screws the overall performance. I'd say change the damage bonus for evocation back to 25%, and make the duration back to 40sec, even change it to 30sec is fine as current arcane dps mode requires an evocation every like 30sec.
For fire, it scales ridiculously with crit. Crit does not only boost fire's dps by providing more crit hit, but also dramatically change your damage composition, which change your spell power efficiency due to the major gap between pyroblast and fireball. Balancing fire DPS within such a HUGE item level inflation is not even possible.

8.Patch screws some specialization.

9.It is better than 5.1. Talking about movement, compare with warlock or hunter, mage is still a joke.

10. Frost proberly is fine but I don't like it. Arcane is crap now, and since I itemize for arcane furing 5.1, my fire doesn't seem perform too well.

11.What is utility? Well I can save my own life, but not others. Time Wrap or Arcane Brilliance count as utility?

12.Seriously I don't know. The whole mage mechanism to me is a huge chunk of mess and has flaws here and there, I don't even know where to start fixing it.
If there must be an answer, how about changing crit mass such that it provide with a flat amount of crit chance (10-15% seems ok).
And for arcane, a rework on the mastery is needed. Or..how about let rogue, warrior hunter's dps depend on their current energy/fury/focus level and ask how they feel.
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90 Human Mage
14765
Part 1: Show me the numbers:
1) Arcane (Mastery/RoP). However, I plan to switch to fire as soon as gear allows.
2) ToT 10-man Normal: 1/12
3) Jin'rokh the Breaker: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-hzl2olg945mv19fn/sum/damageDone/?s=4245&e=4544
4) No.
5) My item level is approximately 5 points higher than most of our raid group.

Part 2: How are you feeling about your mage?

6) 498.
7) Mainly the fact that arcane is just not competitive with the other two mage specs. In fact, fire, frost, and arcane don't seem to be anywhere near the top come 5.2, especially due to our lack of AoE and the movement required by ToT fights.

8) I will be switching to fire purely because it scales much better than either frost or arcane. Not to mention how broken arcane has become.

9) Atrocious. Rune of Power forces arcane to remain rooted. Even the time it took to move away from lightning and into pools on Jin'rokh dramatically dropped DPS (as the parse linked above shows).

10) Decent, at best. I do realize that arcane needed to be nerfed after 5.1, but it seems to have been overdone. Topping charts was very feasible back in 5.0 - 5.1 for me, but now it is all but impossible.

11) Aside from Time Warp, horrible. Coupled with the fact that nothing is CC-able in ToT, I feel even more useless in terms of utility.

12) Overhaul the spec entirely. Arcane has now become a mindless rotation of ABx4, AMx2 (if you happen to get the procs), Abarr. Rinse and repeat, ad nauseum. Coupled with being absolutely rooted by Rune of Power and not competitive with the other mage specs (not to mention most other class DPS specs), it's not even fun to play.
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90 Undead Mage
0
Part 1: Show me the numbers:
1) What is your current 5.2 specialization?
Fire

2) What type of content have you run in 5.2 (5-mans, solo, LFR, 10-normal, 25-normal, etc)?
25 man heroic (16/16 heroic pre-5.2)

3) Link(s) to 5.2 raid logs on your mage (even LFR logs are useful):
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-bnz81cpl7dmyijxa/
We also killed Tortos and Maegera but WOL bugged.

4) Did you change specializations for 5.2? If you changed specs for 5.2, what spec were you before?
I switched to Fire from Arcane, but I've always always been a fire lover. I begrudgingly started playing arcane halfway through 5.1 because it was performing better (source: raidbots and other mages in raid)

5) Is your ilevel generally around the same range as your other raid members from the logs you posted? If not, are you over-geared or under-geared compared to the other members of your raid?
yes, about the same

Part 2: How are you feeling about your mage?

6) What is your average ilevel?
It was about 504 last night when the logs above were taken. I got stuff during the raid that bumped me to current level of 511.

7) What quality of life problems are you seeing with your current specialization?
Mages really really fall behind when it's AOE time. This is true of fire and arcane I believe. While the new ability to spread combustion to 4 targets helps, it still relies on having a good combustion to be effective. However, my guild has very high dps and kills things so quickly, on a fight like Horridon, I can't even get an ignite going before the primary add target something is dead... which means being on the wrong target or no combustion spreading. If I do manage to spread combustion, it doesn't even remotely get the chance to complete all its ticks on the little mobs, which also seems wasteful given the cooldown. Other than that, tab and spam Nether Tempest seems to be the way to go for AOE, and it's not very interesting or fun.

8) If you changed specializations, why did you change?
I've always preferred fire, and coming into 5.2 there was no hard evidence that arcane was better, so I went back to my favorite spec, which I am also more comfortable playing

9) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's movement damage?
It's excellent

10) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's stand-still damage?
It's mediocre, doing well relies on good RNG

11) Overall, how do you feel about your current spec's utility in raids?
There doesn't seem to be much utility. We're there to DPS only. (I don't have a problem with this either, so long as our DPS is effective)

12) If you could change one thing to improve your current spec, what would it be?
Better AOE via more combustion spreading, wider range for combustion spreading.
In my opinion, the epitome of mage AOEing was on Yor'sahj and Maloriak in Cataclysm. It was fun and it required skill to really do exceptionally on it.

Edit: Also, new level 90 talents. The current ones are not fun. As someone else said they feel like a punishment, not a reward.
Edited by Avalyndra on 3/6/2013 2:08 PM PST
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90 Gnome Mage
14945
Lissanna,

I have the information of the 4 mages from our raid group, and I’ll provide the feedback based upon the conversations that we had last night. We're going to run the T14 raids on Thursday.

Part 1: Show me the numbers:
1) Austin – Frost/Fire, Arithela – Frost/Arcane, Bartolomeu – Arcane/Frost, Zulqarnain – Fire/Frost
2) 25 man
3) http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-tdg0d4qjbiai4kfg/sum/damageDone/?s=3251&e=3541 – Horridon did not log correctly, and we had a few DPS playing their off-specs in order to raid.
4) Austin: Arcane-->Frost, Arithela: Arcane -->Frost, Bartolomeu: Arcane-->Arcane(went to Frost on Horridon), Zulqarnain: Arcane-->Fire(went to Frost on Horridon)
5) ilvls of characters: Austin: 499, Arithela: 498?, Bartolomeu: 496, Zulqarnain: 496. Average ilvl of the 15 DPS in the raid, 496, High of 499, low of 486.

Part 2: How are you feeling about your mage?

6) See #5
7) Austin: Getting used to new rotation/pet, Arithela: Played Frost on multi-target, so no change, Bartolomeu: Highly frustrated, too much movement for RoP, tried Evocation on Horridon, lack of a solid “cleave” for AoE, Rotation devolved into AB Spam, use missiles when proc, and ABar on movement, Zulqarnain: Lack of crit on gear caused lack of procs, which meant lack of Pyroblast, and lack of fun, changed to Frost for Horridon.
8) Austin: DPS Dummy proved that Arcane could not sustain DPS of Frost, needed cleave for more fights. Arithela: Same as Austin, Bartolomeu: no change to spec prior to Horridon, found that Arcane does not work for movement, cleave/AoE fights. Zulqarnain: Arcane on test produced low results, move to fire to get raid based feedback, changed to Frost on Horridon.
9) Frost – movement is fine only if you have Fingers of Frost up, or one of the Tier 1 talents available, if not it's horrid. Arcane – excessively punitive, Fire – Scorch is relatively low DPS while moving, hoping that you have a Tier 1 talent available, or have a Pryo Proc.
10) Frost – Decent, Arcane – just okay, Fire – needs more crit.
11) Frost – with cooldowns up, has great burst, other than that, no raid utility other than buffs/ports. Arcane – No raid utility, Fire – no raid utility. We’re DPS specs, we don’t have a raid utility outside of DPS, we don’t bring gimmicks, healing, or raid cooldowns other than Heroism that’s brought by our Shaman, and Hunters.
12) Frost – dry spells of Fingers of Frost are annoying, and can cause some streaky DPS at times, but no as bad as Fire and Hot Streak. Arcane – needs more mana regen, or reduced cost of spells, Mastery is relegated to a 2nd, or 3rd tier stat, needs a viable AoE other than standing in melee and spamming Arcane Exposion, or channeling Blizzard. Fire – needs more crit, it’s far too reliant on crit to be a playable spec, and needs a better AoE other than a targeting reticule on the ground with a cast time/channel, that’s not a compelling AoE rotation.

Impressions from the mages:

All 4 On Frost with current gear, fine. All 4 on Arcane, not viable in current raids. All 4 on Fire, Crit on our current gear makes it far too prone to Hot Streak lottery, may revise when new gear has Crit as opposed to Mastery. Fire’s AoE Cleave is sub-par to that of Frost with Icelance Glyph, Frost Orb, and Glyphed Icy Veins.
Edited by Austin on 3/6/2013 2:18 PM PST
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MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Night Elf Druid
11830
Great data! keep it coming as we get more raid logs over the next few days!
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