With the recent 5.2 Hotfix to Mistweavers ..

90 Human Priest
1865
.. is the mana return any better? The one I'm talking about is Muscle Memory being obtained to Level 20 instead of 65. I've heard Mistweavers only really "upset" with having to change their rotatations, any anything related to Mana has been because of lower levels attempting to level and running out of Mana when killing mobs. Would that be fixed (use loosely) now, or is Mana still an issue?
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100 Pandaren Monk
12685
this would fix many mana issues low lvls were having trying to lvl as mistweaver.... would be better off just going windwalker or brew, but to each their own. jab was increased from 4% to 8% mana. to compensate this and prevent it from being spammed it procs muscle memory when you use tiger palm or blackout kick you get 4% mana back. basically if you weave your skills right its the same as jab being 4% mana

as far as raid healing as Mw thats a different can of worms and jabbing is not worth it imo
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100 Pandaren Monk
17755
I'm levelling a Mistweaver monk on another realm, currently at level 63. And I cannot express enough the sheer pain of the daily "monk training" I did on that Mistweaver last night.

I'm of course levelling the MW to be a healer, but need some level of passable damage ability just in order to level at all. And I had that just fine - took twice as long to kill things as this here Windwalker did but that's to be expected.

Last night I zenned my way over to Kun-Lai where I scored the "boss" that runs back to the statues to heal. Ran out of mana in seconds flat with the boss still at 95%. Headed straight for the forums and other sites to see what was up, and it appears my Mistweaver is now the 2-button-mage of hitting things.

Thing is, even that 2-button rotation sees me go OOM way before I kill he "boss". It's just frustratingly horrible. I can't level through to 90 with that kind of pain.

Trouble is, I'm levelling. I could switch to Windwalker but I need completely different gear, and then also maintain a level-appropriate full set for when I'm healing in dungeons. That is, of course, pretty much impossible. At least on my priest I can dual-spec Holy with Shadow and use the same gear.

Sure, I could just WW my way through to 90 and then buy a healing set but the thing is, I created this MW monk so I could LEARN about healing, not just jump in at 90 and hope I get it right - and that was going pretty damn well.

Faced with this dilemma I find myself not really wanting to play that monk at all any more :(
Edited by Audranda on 3/7/2013 12:49 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Monk
4605
.. is the mana return any better? The one I'm talking about is Muscle Memory being obtained to Level 20 instead of 65. I've heard Mistweavers only really "upset" with having to change their rotatations, any anything related to Mana has been because of lower levels attempting to level and running out of Mana when killing mobs. Would that be fixed (use loosely) now, or is Mana still an issue?


To be very honest. the only time I ever had mana issues with this mistweaver was when having to regear between BC to LK ...etc Once geared in those expansions it was smooth sailing, until the new phase of "WoW regearing." but that was when running dgns.

It was basically the same while questing, and why I put a lot of thought into this thread...
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8088289249?page=2#38

Got a lot of great feed back from it.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
4605
Thing is, even that 2-button rotation sees me go OOM way before I kill he "boss". It's just frustratingly horrible. I can't level through to 90 with that kind of pain.


LOL Not laughing at you but laughing with you. Wait until you do the lvl 90 test with your masters. You might want to wait until you are in mostly 463 gear before attempting it. but chi and mana tea production has been improved greatly since I did it.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
4605
as far as raid healing as Mw thats a different can of worms and jabbing is not worth it imo


I have to respectfully disagree with you. the buffs from jab, palm, and block out kick more than doubled my healing abilities in one single try of "fistweaving"
Edited by Zenfoo on 3/7/2013 3:46 AM PST
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100 Night Elf Monk
9950
03/07/2013 12:48 AMPosted by Audranda
Ran out of mana in seconds flat with the boss still at 95%


Wat?
They just basically doubled our DPS...and you're complaining? What on earth are you doing over there? You jab, then tiger palm...repeat until target is dead. Throw in a chi wave here and there. Mistweaver DPS is not complicated.

No offense, but if you're having trouble killing individual quest mobs, you might wanna roll a death knight or something...
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90 Blood Elf Monk
4605
Wat?
They just basically doubled our DPS...and you're complaining? What on earth are you doing over there? You jab, then tiger palm...repeat until target is dead. Throw in a chi wave here and there. Mistweaver DPS is not complicated.

No offense, but if you're having trouble killing individual quest mobs, you might wanna roll a death knight or something...


^ What she said^

Also if they read what each of the masters say to them pre fight, they all give a plainer than day clue on how to beat them
Edited by Zenfoo on 3/7/2013 10:54 AM PST
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90 Gnome Monk
7430
03/07/2013 02:50 AMPosted by Taiyana
Ran out of mana in seconds flat with the boss still at 95%


Wat?
They just basically doubled our DPS...and you're complaining? What on earth are you doing over there? You jab, then tiger palm...repeat until target is dead. Throw in a chi wave here and there. Mistweaver DPS is not complicated.

No offense, but if you're having trouble killing individual quest mobs, you might wanna roll a death knight or something...


He's talking about leveling, not at cap. A lot of abilities have really out of whack numbers at certain points and before the hot-fix it would take him at most 12.5 jabs to OOM since his tp wasn't returning half the jab cost and if I'm not mistaken he also doesn't have mana tea at that level. While "still at 95%" is undoubtedly an exageration, being totally OOM and unable to defeat the encounter using melee abilities would not surprise me. My guess is the hot-fix change was intended to address exactly the sort of scenario listed.
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100 Pandaren Monk
12685
03/07/2013 02:22 AMPosted by Zenfoo
as far as raid healing as Mw thats a different can of worms and jabbing is not worth it imo


I have to respectfully disagree with you. the buffs from jab, palm, and block out kick more than doubled my healing abilities in one single try of "fistweaving"


my point was also for 25 man normal content. on the bosses with gimicks that increase damage it is viable to fistweave, but the days of jabing for chi to use on uplift/chiburst etc are over. also i could just keep zeal up and auto attack to high numbers in lfr :P
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Why would anyone level 30 or higher not have dual spec?

I have bo sympathy for people doing the daily quest... BUT the hot fix was needed for dungeon healers.
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90 Pandaren Monk
7275
Why would anyone level 30 or higher not have dual spec?

I have bo sympathy for people doing the daily quest... BUT the hot fix was needed for dungeon healers.

Actually, I pretty much stayed in MW all through leveling, the dailies included. I made it work. Maybe that's just me though.
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100 Night Elf Monk
9950
I wish these changes were around when I was leveling. I was twinking BGs as mistweaver...I actually managed to get wrecking ball as a healing spec. If crackling jade lightning had been doing twice the damage when I was twinking...oh the fun I would have had...
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
9655
I have bo sympathy for people doing the daily quest... BUT the hot fix was needed for dungeon healers.


I have no idea what you mean by that. Dungeons were such a sinch to heal. If tank is good, he's pretty much all you have to heal. In cases of AoE damage to the whole group, use the OP Spinning Crane Kick. This new system is .. different. I only just did the daily on it and ran OOM in no time flat, but at the same time I was doing my usual Jab Jab Blackout kick, not realizing.

Fistweaving was fun during the lower levels but if they're going to give us actual healing spells as awesome as SM and then the other healing spells are auto-cast during the channeling, then Fistweaving becomes obsolete. I liked it better before the patch.
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I'm levelling a Mistweaver monk on another realm, currently at level 63. And I cannot express enough the sheer pain of the daily "monk training" I did on that Mistweaver last night.

I'm of course levelling the MW to be a healer, but need some level of passable damage ability just in order to level at all. And I had that just fine - took twice as long to kill things as this here Windwalker did but that's to be expected.

Last night I zenned my way over to Kun-Lai where I scored the "boss" that runs back to the statues to heal. Ran out of mana in seconds flat with the boss still at 95%. Headed straight for the forums and other sites to see what was up, and it appears my Mistweaver is now the 2-button-mage of hitting things.

Thing is, even that 2-button rotation sees me go OOM way before I kill he "boss". It's just frustratingly horrible. I can't level through to 90 with that kind of pain.

Trouble is, I'm levelling. I could switch to Windwalker but I need completely different gear, and then also maintain a level-appropriate full set for when I'm healing in dungeons. That is, of course, pretty much impossible. At least on my priest I can dual-spec Holy with Shadow and use the same gear.

Sure, I could just WW my way through to 90 and then buy a healing set but the thing is, I created this MW monk so I could LEARN about healing, not just jump in at 90 and hope I get it right - and that was going pretty damn well.

Faced with this dilemma I find myself not really wanting to play that monk at all any more :(


This is exactly where I am at 83 right now, I took a break from MW at 62-80 and went back to it at 81 logged in after the patch and I can't do NEAR what I used to do with a MW. I'm not one of these jab jab uplift types either, I just used my different abilities when the situation called for it. (Ive never been one to buy into that "rotation crap") Thus far i'm running out of mana every 1-3 dungeon fights, i'm not nearly as mana conservative as other healers and my parties are getting ticked because they have to wait for me to drink every few fights. It slows down dungeon runs like WOAH. I don't get it. They said they wanted to make Monks better fistweavers but then turned around and nerfed our passive auto-attack and ability healing by 25% a piece. Now I have to spend more mana to do the same job I was spending an already considerable amount to do in the first place. It's stupid really.

They want us to use more of our abilities, yet they force us to use certain abilities in a row now? I have no problem with the idea of combos, but do something unique with them like the Disciple class from Vanguard and make it to where if I use these 3 attacks in a row it automatically heals my focus target or somethin. Not "Hey lets increase the mana cost of jab and force you to use this ability after just so you play the way we want you to play!".

EDIT: Seriously if anyone can give me some pointers on sustaining mana I would appreciate it, cause i'm coming back to the class after a 20 level break and I am freakin lost now. I just OOM constantly. This is with glyph of mana tea, and I don't build mana tea charges nearly as well anymore with the chi cost taken from chi wave.
Edited by Laitheris on 3/8/2013 10:56 AM PST
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100 Blood Elf Monk
14095
03/07/2013 05:58 PMPosted by Cæzar
I have bo sympathy for people doing the daily quest... BUT the hot fix was needed for dungeon healers.


I have no idea what you mean by that. Dungeons were such a sinch to heal.
On 5.2, for some reason, they didn't release muscle memory until a very high level. So these lowbie MW monks were jabbing at 8%, but never getting the 4% return on mana with TP or BoK. They've given it to lvl 20 now with the hotfix, so it should be fine again. If I had the time I'd check it out myself. I'd still probably prefer to heal pure fistweaving in dungeons like I did originally. It definitely works in lvl 90 "heroics".
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100 Blood Elf Monk
14095
This is exactly where I am at 83 right now, I took a break from MW at 62-80 and went back to it at 81 logged in after the patch and I can't do NEAR what I used to do with a MW. I'm not one of these jab jab uplift types either, I just used my different abilities when the situation called for it. (Ive never been one to buy into that "rotation crap") Thus far i'm running out of mana every 1-3 dungeon fights, i'm not nearly as mana conservative as other healers and my parties are getting ticked because they have to wait for me to drink every few fights. It slows down dungeon runs like WOAH. I don't get it. They said they wanted to make Monks better fistweavers but then turned around and nerfed our passive auto-attack and ability healing by 25% a piece. Now I have to spend more mana to do the same job I was spending an already considerable amount to do in the first place. It's stupid really.

They want us to use more of our abilities, yet they force us to use certain abilities in a row now? I have no problem with the idea of combos, but do something unique with them like the Disciple class from Vanguard and make it to where if I use these 3 attacks in a row it automatically heals my focus target or somethin. Not "Hey lets increase the mana cost of jab and force you to use this ability after just so you play the way we want you to play!".

EDIT: Seriously if anyone can give me some pointers on sustaining mana I would appreciate it, cause i'm coming back to the class after a 20 level break and I am freakin lost now. I just OOM constantly. This is with glyph of mana tea, and I don't build mana tea charges nearly as well anymore with the chi cost taken from chi wave.

There's less freedom for sure. I believe you have to use Jab then TP most of the time. To do a BoK for auto attack eminence (and on multiple mobs) use ReM or Expel Harm for a 2nd chi with jab. Or use SCK and Rem or EH and BoK. Those ways will get you 4% mana back each time. I can't really say for certain though if it's more mana usage than not meleeing. But with that dps going out, the fights won't take long at all so drinking every 3 or so seems reasonable to me. Other healers generally have to drink every few pulls too, maybe not shamans. I tend to drink every couple of pulls but not make people wait. I just have ReM already on the tank, maybe i'll put an EM on him and let him run off. By the time my mana bar is topped up, which doesn't take long if you use the best water you can get, there's actually something to heal and everyone is happy. I also end up with too many mana pots from dungeons so I use those liberally out of combat.

- or -

You could heal the more boring method, but I'm nearly certain less mana hogging, and do soothing mists to gain chi and just "range" heal. Never bothering with melee punching. Depending on your spirit levels, which obviously depends on dungeon drops, you may still have to drink every few fights. I guarantee the fights will take longer though since you're not contributing to dps.
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This is exactly where I am at 83 right now, I took a break from MW at 62-80 and went back to it at 81 logged in after the patch and I can't do NEAR what I used to do with a MW. I'm not one of these jab jab uplift types either, I just used my different abilities when the situation called for it. (Ive never been one to buy into that "rotation crap") Thus far i'm running out of mana every 1-3 dungeon fights, i'm not nearly as mana conservative as other healers and my parties are getting ticked because they have to wait for me to drink every few fights. It slows down dungeon runs like WOAH. I don't get it. They said they wanted to make Monks better fistweavers but then turned around and nerfed our passive auto-attack and ability healing by 25% a piece. Now I have to spend more mana to do the same job I was spending an already considerable amount to do in the first place. It's stupid really.

They want us to use more of our abilities, yet they force us to use certain abilities in a row now? I have no problem with the idea of combos, but do something unique with them like the Disciple class from Vanguard and make it to where if I use these 3 attacks in a row it automatically heals my focus target or somethin. Not "Hey lets increase the mana cost of jab and force you to use this ability after just so you play the way we want you to play!".

EDIT: Seriously if anyone can give me some pointers on sustaining mana I would appreciate it, cause i'm coming back to the class after a 20 level break and I am freakin lost now. I just OOM constantly. This is with glyph of mana tea, and I don't build mana tea charges nearly as well anymore with the chi cost taken from chi wave.

There's less freedom for sure. I believe you have to use Jab then TP most of the time. To do a BoK for auto attack eminence (and on multiple mobs) use ReM or Expel Harm for a 2nd chi with jab. Or use SCK and Rem or EH and BoK. Those ways will get you 4% mana back each time. I can't really say for certain though if it's more mana usage than not meleeing. But with that dps going out, the fights won't take long at all so drinking every 3 or so seems reasonable to me. Other healers generally have to drink every few pulls too, maybe not shamans. I tend to drink every couple of pulls but not make people wait. I just have ReM already on the tank, maybe i'll put an EM on him and let him run off. By the time my mana bar is topped up, which doesn't take long if you use the best water you can get, there's actually something to heal and everyone is happy. I also end up with too many mana pots from dungeons so I use those liberally out of combat.

- or -

You could heal the more boring method, but I'm nearly certain less mana hogging, and do soothing mists to gain chi and just "range" heal. Never bothering with melee punching. Depending on your spirit levels, which obviously depends on dungeon drops, you may still have to drink every few fights. I guarantee the fights will take longer though since you're not contributing to dps.


See tanks at 83 die so fast there is no way to keep them alive and be mana effecient at the same time. If there is i'm truly missing something. I have to blow through my mana just to keep them from death and they never keep an eye on my mana bar, they just charge into the next fight with my mana at 15% and blame me for using too much mana. That or tell me "less dps more healing" and then threaten to kick me if I don't "do my job" lol I really don't get this class anymore, i'm so frustrated with these changes i'm almost to the point of canceling my sub, as the reason I came back to the game from a hiatus was to play Monk. I was enjoy it, but after 5.2 not so much. One of two things are going on here, either the team in charge of the monk changes are geniuses and the community is missing something HUGE or the guys who did the "changes" to the Monk are the biggest morons alive. =\
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100 Blood Elf Monk
14095
The latter of course! lol

But, as far as squishy tanks go... it's them. It's not you. Unless you're seriously not encountering bad tanks on other healer leveling toons, and only on the monk, I'm sticking with it's them.

I have an 80 alliance (gasp) monk I want to level to 90. I will try and do one run tonight on it. And it has terrible gear :P it was an RAF level granted from 40 to 80.
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82 Pandaren Monk
4400
Could just be a case of a streak of undergeared tanks. Most Heirlooms go away at 80 right? So they might not have a complete set of tanking gear since it's a pain to collect sets for different specs/uses.

I recall having similar streaks of bad tanks at various level points (namely around 60ish and DK tanks) due to reasons beyond my control.
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