Haste vs Mastery! Cap? MM? SV? BM?

90 Draenei Hunter
12470
This is probably not the right forum to post this.. but whatevers lol

Anyone here's played with numbers on how much haste is enough haste when you're in MM / SV or BM / SV for standstill patchwerks style fight?

I've heard 10% haste is what we'll need which is basically Agi > Haste > Mastery for SV in 5.1 gear but in 5.2 we'll pass that 10% mark... Seeing how we're going to be spending majority of the time in SV or BM for the first 6 bosses lets theory craft for that.. But I was wondering if anyone has any solid real numbers on this..

BTW I think once we start getting gear we'll be MM with SV multi target.

The forums are so cluttered right now with 'zomg i is MM' threads it got kinda hard to find solid information.
Edited by Klumzyee on 3/6/2013 4:56 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Hunter
12470
nothing?
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Hunter
5435
We're pretty much ignoring haste alltogether for BM/SV. You can't avoid getting it on gear, but there aren't any plateaus that are really worth reaching for.

The recent buff to Explosive/BA shifted even more of survival's damage to magic, which increases the value of mastery. In addition, when Survival is dominant on a fight, it's usually because there are adds. Adds means multi-dotting/AEing, which favors mastery even more than single target situations.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Hunter
9825
I actually ran some testing on these, in game i noticed a dps increase as BM and surv going Crit/haste vs crit/mastery.

I think that Blizz may have changed our haste ratio and improved its value, also supporting this is the astonishing lack of Mastery/crit gear this tier.

As for this though I feel that MM will fall behind due to its complex use of Focus manipulation and surv will pull to top like it did at various other mid xpac points.
Reply Quote
Im sure some haste benefits MM


For MM, crit is ahead of haste, and haste is ahead of mastery.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Hunter
9825
MM has a haste minimum as well.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Hunter
9770
03/07/2013 11:05 PMPosted by Khadrick
Im sure some haste benefits MM


For MM, crit is ahead of haste, and haste is ahead of mastery.


You're right and you're wrong.

For MM Haste is the main stat of the three [haste, crit, and mastery] to a certain point, and then crit takes over. With the recent changes to MM (i.e. the buff to Aimed Shot / reduction of its casting time) as of patch 5.2, the "plateaus" may/probably have changed.

I'm still doing research regarding these changes in correlation to the plateaus.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Hunter
9825
That is the issue I have been doing the same not much is out there at the time due to progression guilds do most of it and they are busy raiding for world ranking.

I am still not sure as to why I have noticed the following:

Cirt>haste>mastery in my BM spec and sims, this has proven for my Surv as well.

I noticed a 6k dps gain overall in TOES reg this week from that. And in our TOT progress my crit>haste>Mastery the dps was better as well.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Hunter
9770
That is the issue I have been doing the same not much is out there at the time due to progression guilds do most of it and they are busy raiding for world ranking.

I am still not sure as to why I have noticed the following:

Cirt>haste>mastery in my BM spec and sims, this has proven for my Surv as well.

I noticed a 6k dps gain overall in TOES reg this week from that. And in our TOT progress my crit>haste>Mastery the dps was better as well.


Overall DPS increase from ToES is what I would base my judgement on, simply for two reason:
1. First fight of ToT - you are in a 40% DPS increase pool for a decent period of the engagement.
-and-
2. Second fight of ToT - you should be going with SV spec because of; a) the adds, and b) the constant swapping of targets.
Reply Quote
90 Human Hunter
4160
We're pretty much ignoring haste alltogether for BM/SV. You can't avoid getting it on gear, but there aren't any plateaus that are really worth reaching for.


Since when?
BM = Hit/Expertise/Crit/Mastery/Haste
Survival = Hit/Expertise/Crit/Haste/Mastery

For best possible DPS.

In addition, when Survival is dominant on a fight, it's usually because there are adds. Adds means multi-dotting/AEing, which favors mastery even more than single target situations.


Again, not true. BM / Surv actually sim pretty close together now, and Survival actually pulls ahead slightly. Aside from that, I also have my own personal testing in the mix and I have noticed myself doing slightly more single target DPS in Survival, than I do in BM.

Please keep in mind, that I am basing this off my stabilized DPS (over a 5-10 minute fight), not my initial 1 minute of insane burst on BM. :P
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Hunter
16400
Beast: Agility > Hit/Exp 7.5% > Crit > Mastery > Haste

Survival: Agility > Hit/Exp 7.5% > Crit > Mastery > Haste

Marksmanship: Agility > Hit/Exp 7.5% > Crit >= Haste (explain below) > Mastery > More Haste

If you play Marks, you actually want shot cycles and Haste breakpoints since the 9 second Chimera gives you room to tweak with Haste.

The ideal spots are
-5.402% Haste - This is your starter Haste point you'll want at lower gear. Drops your Steady to 1.5 seconds allowing a tighter and more consistent DPS cycle. This point is at a mere 2296 Haste rating.

-9.062% Haste - When you have enough gear that you surpass the 5.94% Haste point naturally even without reforges, this Haste breakpoint provides the highest DPS potential, This is the point I'm at for gear referencing. Without the 4pc T14, it doesn't open up any new shot cycles but it smooths out the rotation allowing easier use if you play with higher than 50 MS and also at this point allows Aimed Shot to be the dump of choice during dynamic Haste effects. This point is about 3864 Haste rating.

-12.93% Haste - This is just for really really geared people and those with the 4pc T14. At this point, your Steady is at the GCD cap during Rapid Fire. With the 4pc T14 and this breakpoint, you can use Aimed Shot dump full time. This point occurs at 5496 Haste.

The ideal place to be for Marks, given no one is decked out in heroic t15 yet, is between the 9.062% point and the 12.93% point given your overall gear (you have to sim yourself after each new item) since you won't sacrifice a ton of Crit or Mastery to achieve it.
Edited by Bullettime on 3/8/2013 11:00 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Troll Hunter
10195
www.noxxic.com
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Hunter
16400
www.noxxic.com


Should be avoided like the plague in at least the case of our class. They've NEVER had the correct information.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Hunter
9160
Ok, so I saw a good explanation on haste value for MM, even had amounts. What is a good cap for Survival haste? What is considered a good percentage of crit and mastery? Im at 9% haste and 24% crit right now, doesnt seem to matter what I do, my dps averages out at about the same no matter what I reforge/gem to...
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Hunter
16400
Ok, so I saw a good explanation on haste value for MM, even had amounts. What is a good cap for Survival haste? What is considered a good percentage of crit and mastery? Im at 9% haste and 24% crit right now, doesnt seem to matter what I do, my dps averages out at about the same no matter what I reforge/gem to...


The less Haste the better.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Hunter
5435
Since when?
Survival = Hit/Expertise/Crit/Haste/Mastery

For best possible DPS.


Since they buffed Serpent Sting in 5.1. Haste and Mastery were actually somewhat debated until that point. Doubling up serpent sting just tipped the scale to Mastery, and the more recent buffs to Expl/BA push it up even further.

Again, not true. BM / Surv actually sim pretty close together now, and Survival actually pulls ahead slightly. Aside from that, I also have my own personal testing in the mix and I have noticed myself doing slightly more single target DPS in Survival, than I do in BM.

Please keep in mind, that I am basing this off my stabilized DPS (over a 5-10 minute fight), not my initial 1 minute of insane burst on BM. :P


The original statement is entirely true. BM and Survival aren't that close in T14 gear, BM has a bit of an edge in single target due to favorable set bonuses. They tighten up a bit with T15 gear though. Survival is favored in fights where pet dependence is a hindrance, or multi-target/AE is prevalent.
Edited by Aertea on 3/8/2013 10:09 PM PST
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]