Soothing Talisman Trinket - Yes or No?

90 Human Paladin
13180
Soothing Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault is the trinket you can purchase for 1750 Valor Points from the Shado-Pan Assault, but I have yet to read concrete math on how it compares to trinkets like normal Spirit of the Sun or Relic of Chi-ji, the two trinkets I currently use (both upgraded to 2/2).

Should I bother dropping my Valor Points on this trinket? I will need to spend some Valor Points regardless before next week to avoid capping out, but I don't know if I should get the necklace, ring or wrist instead. How does it compare to other trinkets I will eventually come across in the Throne of Thunder?
Edited by Areos on 3/6/2013 8:07 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
It looks like trash.
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90 Human Paladin
13180
Tooltip is showing up wrong. It gives back 29,805 mana when used every 3 minutes.
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63 Dwarf Priest
0
It's equal to ~827 mp5 or ~1478 spirit if used on cooldown, without wasting any of the mana. It's not bad.

The only other trinket that gives constant int-based throughput and a reliable source of mp5 is Horridon's Last Gasp, but I don't know the ICD off-hand to compare them. The rest of the healer trinkets in this tier have some sort of burst throughput mechanic tied to them, or no mana regen mechanic.
Edited by Urteil on 3/6/2013 8:33 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
lol
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90 Blood Elf Priest
14910
I'd get the neck or bracers first, personally.
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90 Draenei Shaman
12770
I'd get the neck or bracers first, personally.


Even with his DMC (2/2 upgraded), Nixxin?
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90 Gnome Priest
12440
It's equal to ~827 mp5 or ~1478 spirit if used on cooldown, without wasting any of the mana. It's not bad.

The only other trinket that gives constant int-based throughput and a reliable source of mp5 is Horridon's Last Gasp, but I don't know the ICD off-hand to compare them. The rest of the healer trinkets in this tier have some sort of burst throughput mechanic tied to them, or no mana regen mechanic.

Horridon's trinket is 1 RPPM. So really bad.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
14910
It's overbudgeted and around the level of a 500-504 trinket at 2/2. Might as well start replacing your worst gear, and SPA doesn't sell boots.

Horridon's trinket is 1 RPPM. So really bad.


It was proccing a lot more than that for our monk tonight.
Edited by Nixxin on 3/6/2013 9:01 PM PST
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90 Gnome Priest
12440
It's overbudgeted and around the level of a 500-504 trinket at 2/2. Might as well start replacing your worst gear, and SPA doesn't sell boots.

Horridon's trinket is 1 RPPM. So really bad.


It was proccing a lot more than that for our monk tonight.

Was it? They might've buffed it. I'm just going off what GC said here:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7811342046?page=79#1561
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8 Dwarf Priest
0
this topic may be answered to some degree here

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7978878568

not everyone may agree with the formula, math, standards, etc this person used. but the trinket seems to measure up pretty well. it does seem a bit odd that a vendor trinket could be better than all the raid trinkets.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
19310
I'd go with the VP trinket if you don't already have a heroic 2/2 Spirits.
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90 Human Paladin
10005
Excuse my ignorance but, what does 1 RPPM mean?

Thanks in advance
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90 Blood Elf Priest
16330
Excuse my ignorance but, what does 1 RPPM mean?

Thanks in advance


It stands for Real Procs Per Minute. It's a new proc system they created. It essentially tries to normalize procs that trigger on dmg or heals between classes that hit a lot and classes that hit a little. "Whether you’re an Affliction Warlock dealing very frequent DoT ticks and Malefic Grasp ticks, or a Holy Paladin casting purely Holy Lights" quoted from the blue post.
Edited by Barbo on 3/15/2013 11:10 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Priest
10765
All the 5.2 trinkets end up around 830 mp5.
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90 Goblin Priest
14695
All the 5.2 trinkets end up around 830 mp5.


That number can vary a ton for this trinket. ~828 mp5 is actually the regen floor.

http://i.imgur.com/ZeLqTfF.png?1

That is assuming 1st use at 20s and on cd after that. The normal-mode static spirit trinkets are obviously providing static throughput through the fight and are giving the ~828 mp5 (outside of considering mana tide and rapture). Horridon's is a little trickier but from what I've heard it must be more than the 830 mp5 you claim.
Edited by Crzed on 3/16/2013 1:07 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105
The problem with the trinket is it is the large amount of mana regained at once on a long cooldown tends to be problematic with class mechanics. You will want to use it as soon as you are down to 90% mana. The problem is, that will wind up delaying your first use of Innervate/Shadowfiend-Mindbender/Divine Plea/Mana Tide, because you will need to burn off an additional 10% of your mana before being able to use those mana regen cooldowns without partially wasting them.

On certain fight lengths, that delay may mean that you end up getting less uses in of your mana regen cooldowns, and while the Mp5 value may look great on paper, a lot of it gets wasted due to the timing constraints the trinket puts on regen cooldown usage. It's possibly less significant for pallies, because the healing debuff means you don't necessarily want to use Divine Plea on CD, but Priests, Druids and Shaman all want to use their regen cooldowns as often as possible.

I would be inclined to avoid purchasing the trinket unless you have truly terrible trinkets for that reason alone.
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90 Troll Druid
11860
It looks like trash.


This guy is using it

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/twisting-nether/Owld/simple

Horridon 's trinket gets the same rap

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/alakir/Viveca/simple

Crap is certainly relative
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90 Undead Priest
0
The problem with the trinket is it is the large amount of mana regained at once on a long cooldown tends to be problematic with class mechanics. You will want to use it as soon as you are down to 90% mana. The problem is, that will wind up delaying your first use of Innervate/Shadowfiend-Mindbender/Divine Plea/Mana Tide, because you will need to burn off an additional 10% of your mana before being able to use those mana regen cooldowns without partially wasting them.

On certain fight lengths, that delay may mean that you end up getting less uses in of your mana regen cooldowns, and while the Mp5 value may look great on paper, a lot of it gets wasted due to the timing constraints the trinket puts on regen cooldown usage. It's possibly less significant for pallies, because the healing debuff means you don't necessarily want to use Divine Plea on CD, but Priests, Druids and Shaman all want to use their regen cooldowns as often as possible.

I would be inclined to avoid purchasing the trinket unless you have truly terrible trinkets for that reason alone.


The argument you are using here only applies if one were to use the Trinket before using the mana regen cooldown.

If the mana regen cooldown were used before the Trinket, then the opposite conclusion would be true: a healer using this Trinket will use his mana regen cooldown earlier in a fight than if this healer were to be using constant regen Trinkets (such as yours).

In the case of a Priest which you cite, I can get by on most parts of most encounters through the use of Mindbender and Atonement alone. I don't need nor want extra regen during these times. It is only when damage becomes heavy, and must be met with heavy healing, where regen begins to matter. These are also times when my mana bar will disappear quite quickly and I have no problem making use of both my regen cooldown and my trinket simultaneously without delay.

The Trinket is quite good.
Edited by Multicidez on 3/16/2013 12:50 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105
The problem with the trinket is it is the large amount of mana regained at once on a long cooldown tends to be problematic with class mechanics. You will want to use it as soon as you are down to 90% mana. The problem is, that will wind up delaying your first use of Innervate/Shadowfiend-Mindbender/Divine Plea/Mana Tide, because you will need to burn off an additional 10% of your mana before being able to use those mana regen cooldowns without partially wasting them.

On certain fight lengths, that delay may mean that you end up getting less uses in of your mana regen cooldowns, and while the Mp5 value may look great on paper, a lot of it gets wasted due to the timing constraints the trinket puts on regen cooldown usage. It's possibly less significant for pallies, because the healing debuff means you don't necessarily want to use Divine Plea on CD, but Priests, Druids and Shaman all want to use their regen cooldowns as often as possible.

I would be inclined to avoid purchasing the trinket unless you have truly terrible trinkets for that reason alone.


The argument you are using here only applies if one were to use the Trinket before using the mana regen cooldown.

If the mana regen cooldown were used before the Trinket, then the opposite conclusion would be true: a healer using this Trinket will use his mana regen cooldown earlier in a fight than if this healer were to be using constant regen Trinkets (such as yours).

In the case of a Priest which you cite, I can get by on most parts of most encounters through the use of Mindbender and Atonement alone. I don't need nor want extra regen during these times. It is only when damage becomes heavy, and must be met with heavy healing, where regen begins to matter. These are also times when my mana bar will disappear quite quickly and I have no problem making use of both my regen cooldown and my trinket simultaneously without delay.

The Trinket is quite good.


The argument falls the same way if you use your mana regen cooldown first. If you use your cooldown first, you are waiting longer into the fight to use the on use trinket, which reduces the number of times you can use the on use trinket, which reduces the mp5 value of the trinket from its theorycrafted value.

Let's take a druid and Innervate (because it's the easiest example that doesn't involve working around priest talent selections or Shaman spirit levels). Innervate is 20% mana, so you normally want to wait until you are at 75-80% mana before using it. Let's say you are burning mana at the rate of 10% of your mana every 30 seconds (just to throw a random number out there for example).

7 minute fight:

Model 1 - Don't have the trinket
1:00 - Use Innervate
4:00 - Use Innervate
7:00 - Use Innervate

Model 1 - Use trinket first
0:30 - Use Trinket
1:30 - Use Innervate
3:30 - Use Trinket
4:30 - Use Innervate
6:30 - Use Trinket
-Under this model and fight length, if the trinket makes you wait 30 extra seconds to use Innervate, you get one less Innervate off during the fight. With 3 uses, the trinket is worth 1064 mp5. However, losing that third innervate means that you are losing 714 mp5, and the trinket only really adds 352 mp5 over not having it equipped.

Model 2 - Use Innervate first
1:00 - Use Innervate
1:30 - Use Trinket
4:00 - Use Innervate
4:30 - Use Trinket
7:00 - Use Innervate
-If you use Innervate first, you obviously get the 3 uses off, but you now only get 2 trinket uses off during the fight. This reduces the mp5 value of the trinket to 714 mp5, bringing it close to or possibly below that of Relic of Chi Ji or Spirits of the Sun.

It can be really strong on some fights, but the nature/length of the cooldown makes its value very dependent on fight lengths.
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