So uhh parses are up on WOL. Mages=ajoke

90 Blood Elf Mage
7910
I think what confuses me most about some of the mage class changes is that now I'm kind of not sure where we fit in.

As Nvx pointed out, Hybrid classes are now doing better DPS than Mages. I'm not someone who believes that Hybrid classes should be horrible dps, however I do think that the 'swiss-army-knife' classes should have some kind of cooldown or restriction as to what role they're currently performing. (For the Hybrid Heal classes only - When it comes to PVP, I don't see Warriors/DK's as "Hybrids" )

For Example:

Shadow Priests receive a 25% damage buff while in Shadow form, can Glyph to allow the use of Renew and Shield while in Shadow form without any interruptions. (So Far, I'm ok with this) - however, they can leave Shadowform, cast Heal / Flash Heal, pop right back into Shadow Form, and now have their 25% buff again.

What I would like to see:

A) 2-5 Second Global Cooldown for all spells when entering / leaving Shadow Form

or

B) After leaving Shadow-form, you cannot re-enter for 10 seconds

or

????
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90 Human Priest
11580
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/10N/all/7/30/avg/

this would be a better one to look at. not for mages, but yea...

look, mages need gear. right now they are crap, give them a month of LFR and normals and they will be back on top...
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90 Human Priest
11580
I think what confuses me most about some of the mage class changes is that now I'm kind of not sure where we fit in.

As Nvx pointed out, Hybrid classes are now doing better DPS than Mages. I'm not someone who believes that Hybrid classes should be horrible dps, however I do think that the 'swiss-army-knife' classes should have some kind of cooldown or restriction as to what role they're currently performing. (For the Hybrid Heal classes only - When it comes to PVP, I don't see Warriors/DK's as "Hybrids" )

For Example:

Shadow Priests receive a 25% damage buff while in Shadow form, can Glyph to allow the use of Renew and Shield while in Shadow form without any interruptions. (So Far, I'm ok with this) - however, they can leave Shadowform, cast Heal / Flash Heal, pop right back into Shadow Form, and now have their 25% buff again.

What I would like to see:

A) 2-5 Second Global Cooldown for all spells when entering / leaving Shadow Form

or

B) After leaving Shadow-form, you cannot re-enter for 10 seconds

or

????


the GCD from breaking shadow form isnt enough?
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90 Blood Elf Mage
7910
the GCD from breaking shadow form isnt enough?


You mean the cooldown where you can use your shield, flash heal twice, and pop back into shadow?
Edited by Jaeron on 3/7/2013 3:35 PM PST
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90 Troll Mage
9410
lol @ people saying mages need gear. Mage doesn't magically scale better with gear. Arcane used to scale really well, but hence the nerfs to the class that now has gutted it to be dead last in DPS.

Other classes will get gear upgrades this tier too, and guess what, mages will still be on the bottom unless something changes
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17205
Mages are a scaling spec, get more gear, get your tier and just watch your precious little spec climb.


ROFL.
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90 Gnome Mage
13835
Executive Summary:

Current top 200 contains TWO mages, that's 1% - 1% is also called a statistical anomaly. Mages represent 3 out of 24 - making 1% a clear manifestation of the overkill Blizzard has done on mages this patch. Half the nerf was all that was required.

Top five spots on the dps rankings for post 5.2:
1 Rogue/Assassination 137kdps
2 Death Knight/Unholy 127kdps
3 Paladin/Retribution 125kdps
4 Warlock/Affliction 125kdps
5 Warlock/Demonology 124kdps

Last four spots on the dps rankings for post 5.2:

20 - Frost @ 108kdps
21 - Fire @ 107kdps
23 - BM Hunter @ 107kdps
24 - Arcane @ 94kdps <----------

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/10N/all/14/60/default/

I've recommended my own immediate removal from the raid team until there is a reason to bring a mage to a raid again. We now provide NO unique buffs, or produce - and the lowest DPS possible. As for getting more gear, I've got to get from 480 to 520 iLvl without doing any normal raiding, before I can do normal raiding, I hope you see the fatal flaw in that process.

PS: I'm an arcane mage, no I'm not going to quit over this - enjoying the new solo content. But I can't even imagine not being kicked from LFR for this crappy amount of dps.
Edited by Schwarzkopf on 3/7/2013 3:53 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
Yup because the patch has been out for all of 3 days, im sure those numbers are accurate...
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90 Gnome Mage
13835
Yup because the patch has been out for all of 3 days, im sure those numbers are accurate...


They are statistically significant (i.e. 99%+ chance of being systemic, 1% chance of being random).
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90 Goblin Warlock
15105
Current top 200 contains TWO mages, that's 1% - 1% is also called a statistical anomaly. Mages represent 3 out of 24 - making 1% a clear manifestation of the overkill Blizzard has done on mages this patch. Half the nerf was all that was required.


Most top guilds do not let their parses get posted in the first weeks of a patch or even later on except for bosses on farm
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90 Undead Mage
11870
look, mages need gear. right now they are crap, give them a month of LFR and normals and they will be back on top...


Did every other class get some free gear I wasn't aware of? Because as of monday, mages were competing. Nothing about ToT seems to indicate that mage mechanics would be to blame for the sudden decrease we've seen thus far.

Its nice that mages scale well with gear. Rogues scale as well, if not better. Other classes will be gearing up along side the mages. Saying we'll be "ok" with BiS gear is just stupid.

I fail to see how any system that says "You'll be fine when you get to the end of the tier and have the best gear available" is a good one. Its like letting your Nascar driver only put around in 2nd gear until lap 500, then they can go all out.

I am good at my class. I do well with my class. I fought very hard to maintain competitiveness with my fellow dps in our raid. After just one night of raiding, where we're all learning the fights, I am not competing at all. I'm trying to outpace the tanks. Yeah... I apparently just became completely inept over the past 3 days.

That must be it.
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90 Gnome Mage
13835
Most top guilds do not let their parses get posted in the first weeks of a patch or even later on except for bosses on farm


Yep - which means ALL classes are equally representative. Matter of fact, most top guilds probably wont have mages in their runs at all. So the representation will DROP when they come into play.

I wanted to be fair, and take a normal snapshot that includes the clueless people (like me) still playing a mage.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17205
03/07/2013 04:04 PMPosted by Howmanylichs
Its nice that mages scale well with gear.


This may be true for Fire, but it is not true in any way, shape, or form for Frost. And I don't really think it was for Arcane either.

People just like to say it.

But even for those fire mages with item levels of 510 and up, they are not doing that well, and these WoL parses show that. Go ahead and sort for Top 100 and look at Fire. So imagine the performance issues for the vast majority of mages, who have nowhere near that level of gear, and likely will be lucky to have an item level of 520 at the end of the patch.

Now I have little doubt that these numbers will move up a bit given we only have two days worth of logs. But it is simply dumb, sloppy, and deeply inaccurate of those who keep saying "derp you scale well the end".
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90 Draenei Priest
12930
Can't help but laugh at this due to only being 1,200DPS below Shaman. A little different for you since you did spend the majority of T14 @ the top -- Shamans, not so much. Nope, bottom as always.

03/07/2013 04:04 PMPosted by Howmanylichs
Its nice that mages scale well with gear.
Edited by Jâck on 3/7/2013 4:16 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17205
Did you even look at the log parses Jack?
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lol @ people saying mages need gear. Mage doesn't magically scale better with gear. Arcane used to scale really well, but hence the nerfs to the class that now has gutted it to be dead last in DPS.

Other classes will get gear upgrades this tier too, and guess what, mages will still be on the bottom unless something changes


Arcane scaled really well with gear when gear increased our Mana pool. That changed with MoP, and at every patch and twice on hotfixes during cata arcane took a 5% nerf just to account for that, so you're right, Mages don't scale any better with gear than anyone else.
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90 Human Mage
10075
Ya Fire sucks atm, im just playing my Resto Shaman untill they fix it but if its bothering you try frost for a bit.
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90 Human Warrior
RoT
9765
Someone's gotta be last, why is it so wrong for mages to take a turn down there.
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90 Gnome Mage
13835
Someone's gotta be last, why is it so wrong for mages to take a turn down there.


True - but for the last class to have NOTHING else to offer a raid (no healing, no rez, no buffs, no stuff and no dps) - then all common sense dictates you just don't have them in the raid.

Do you realise that arcane is closer now to healer DPS and tank DPS (yes DPS) than it is to top dps dps.

TOP DPS : 138kdps
ARCANE : 94kdps - difference is 31% (from top dps base)
TOP TANK: 68kdps - difference is 27% (from arcane)
TOP HEALER: 66kdps - difference is 28% (from arcane).

Does that mean I should take this discussion to the tanking forum :)
Edited by Schwarzkopf on 3/7/2013 4:38 PM PST
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