So uhh parses are up on WOL. Mages=ajoke

90 Draenei Mage
16695
Still brings up a good point for 5.3 we need to push for more utility, even rogues have a raid wall now, and a revamp of the level 90 talents. I don't mind being mid-level dps if we had the utility like a lock who brings brez, cookies and lazy raider summons. I'm still partial to the idea of adding mana to healthstone and give a similar ability to mages with mana gems because healthstones are almost too good for one class to hold right now.
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90 Worgen Mage
15160
03/07/2013 07:02 PMPosted by Purebalance
So Until then we just sit the mages? Why exactly do I bring a class who does not do competitive damage when that is all they can help with in the raid.


If you're getting sat week 1, it's not the class.


... I am not sure what to say about that comment other than you have a very mistaken impression about the experience of the players. These same players went from Number 1 damage metres, to number 13 in a single day. The frost mage has been playing almost as long as I have - 5 years - and I am close to sitting myself out for the same reason.

The damage of the mages is terrible right now. Maybe it will pick up after more gear, I do not know.
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90 Troll Mage
8750
9/12 guild and being sat right now, the other classes are doing more dps. Thanks blizz! Now I just get to listen in vent. :(
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90 Tauren Shaman
12345
Mages down near elemental. Now you know how we feel patch after patch after patch.
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88 Draenei Mage
6610
03/07/2013 06:28 PMPosted by Virtutis
True - but for the last class to have NOTHING else to offer a raid


Rogues say hi.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16880
It has been 3 days... For goodness sake.
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I forget - how many days before they nerfed fire mage spec in 5.1 and made it unplayable?

Seems like it was only 2-3, just looking for the same sense of urgency
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90 Draenei Mage
16695
True - but for the last class to have NOTHING else to offer a raid


Rogues say hi.


Rogues do have a raid wall now...20% damage reduction for 5 seconds is something.
Edited by Akrisa on 3/7/2013 7:56 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Hunter
6730
This is what happens when you have had so much for so long. You lose perspective on what it is like for the rest of the population on a regular basis.

If the data shows that Mages are not competitive (which could very well mean MID PACK *gasp*) then they will fix it. They have the data and they will act accordingly.

Until then, settle down Beavis. All that has happened is that you have lost your "insta top DPS" card for a short time. It's going to be ok. Many other classes have existed this was for multiple years. You are on day 2.
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90 Human Warrior
RoT
9765
Some classes have spent an entire tier at bottom, Mages spend 3 days and forums explode.
A glass of !@#$ is in order.
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90 Draenei Mage
16695
This is what happens when you have had so much for so long. You lose perspective on what it is like for the rest of the population on a regular basis.

If the data shows that Mages are not competitive (which could very well mean MID PACK *gasp*) then they will fix it. They have the data and they will act accordingly.

Until then, settle down Beavis. All that has happened is that you have lost your "insta top DPS" card for a short time. It's going to be ok. Many other classes have existed this was for multiple years. You are on day 2.


The problem is that mages are kinda put into a position to be near top dps, like rogues. See unlike Shadow, Ele, Locks and so on they bring some sort of unique utility to the raid. If you had a raid full of mages after you cover all your buffs it would still be an unbalanced comp because heroics are based around the liberal use of utility such as Healing Tides, Brez, Lockstones, Tranqs, Stampeding Roars, ect. Yet if you bring a raid full of hybrid classes then you can still hit the dps check because most classes will still have a delta of 5%. Sure it won't be as quick but its still doable.

The problem with mages is they lack such tools as Healing Tide, Brez and so on so to be "viable" they have to do near best dps or they won't be brought to heroic raids by the high end guilds. Therefore Blizzard has put them into the uncomfortable position of the only way to be viable is having potential top 3 dps in the right hands, if not they will get sat for a class who can bring a utility function. This is why rogues had smoke bomb be given a 20% reduction to their toolkit.

If anything this shows that Mages for 5.3 needs some raid utility to be included to justify having mid-level dps, which would be good for class balance and representation.
Edited by Akrisa on 3/7/2013 8:03 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Priest
10300
Aaaand this is why I rerolled. Mages have no identity, no direction, terrible balance. Bliz simply did not want to do their due diligence in figuring out what they want out of them this xpac, and every new patch shows this.

It sucks because we have a mediocre mage in our semi-casual group. He was all right to keep around last patch because arcane was a great spec, but now he's pulling less dps than the tanks. We like him as a person, but he's become a total liability. After switching from arcane to fire on night 2, not much changed. Sucks, because we're ready to replace someone we really like to play with simply because we can't keep carrying him.

Bliz - hunker down and fix this class. Let it happen mid-patch if you have to. You're screwing over a lot of people who are playing in good faith here. I was cynical enough to switch early on, and it has been noting but a reward with each passing day. How is this fair to those who are loyal?
Edited by Terrortician on 3/7/2013 8:15 PM PST
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90 Worgen Mage
14550
Mages down near elemental. Now you know how we feel patch after patch after patch.


I will tell you what people keep telling us you still have two other viable specs
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90 Night Elf Hunter
6730
True story: Hunters don't bring anything of substance to a Raid outside of Pure DPS. We have no brez, no raid cool down, no buffs that aren't brought by other classes, no special snowflake ability (dispel, interrupt). JUST. PURE. DPS

Now, care to guess what spot Hunters have occupied since WoTLK on the DPS ladder? Mid pack with one spec. The other 2 specs were nearly DFL (dead freaking last). This is going on 2 years now.

Yet somehow we still manage to raid, still manage to see content and still manage to make ourselves valuable. But I can tell you I have been passed up more than once for that final ranged DPS spot in favor of a Mage because Mage DPS has ALWAYS (caveat one small period of time in WOW history) been the top dog in DPS.

Do I want to see the Mage class languish at the bottom, no. You are a pure DPS so that would be silly. Do I think that you should automatically get the top spot(s). No, because maybe somewhere along the way someone decided to let the rest of us have a turn.

The Mage class has some of the strongest control in the game. That has not changed. The damage coefficients will be tweaked until you have a spec capable of placing you mid to top DPS. If you don't think this will happen quickly then you fail to know the history of your class.

But if (and it's a big, unlikely "IF") blizzard decided to let Mages stay mid pack for a tier it's not the end of the world. You can always either re-roll, or just ride it out like everyone else has had to do at some time, or another.

In the interim, instead of having a pity party, use your time wisely to learn how to play your class better. Sometimes when you have adversity, the time spent overcoming it makes you a better person (or in this case, player). If you just give up because you have 2 days of data that indicates you have been dropped a few pegs on the pecking order, then you weren't very committed to your class to begin with and only played it because it was the FoTM way to be top dog.
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90 Worgen Mage
14550
True story: Hunters don't bring anything of substance to a Raid outside of Pure DPS. We have no brez, no raid cool down, no buffs that aren't brought by other classes, no special snowflake ability (dispel, interrupt). JUST. PURE. DPS

Now, care to guess what spot Hunters have occupied since WoTLK on the DPS ladder? Mid pack with one spec. The other 2 specs were nearly DFL (dead freaking last). This is going on 2 years now.

Yet somehow we still manage to raid, still manage to see content and still manage to make ourselves valuable. But I can tell you I have been passed up more than once for that final ranged DPS spot in favor of a Mage because Mage DPS has ALWAYS (caveat one small period of time in WOW history) been the top dog in DPS.

Do I want to see the Mage class languish at the bottom, no. You are a pure DPS so that would be silly. Do I think that you should automatically get the top spot(s). No, because maybe somewhere along the way someone decided to let the rest of us have a turn.

The Mage class has some of the strongest control in the game. That has not changed. The damage coefficients will be tweaked until you have a spec capable of placing you mid to top DPS. If you don't think this will happen quickly then you fail to know the history of your class.

But if (and it's a big, unlikely "IF") blizzard decided to let Mages stay mid pack for a tier it's not the end of the world. You can always either re-roll, or just ride it out like everyone else has had to do at some time, or another.

In the interim, instead of having a pity party, use your time wisely to learn how to play your class better. Sometimes when you have adversity, the time spent overcoming it makes you a better person (or in this case, player). If you just give up because you have 2 days of data that indicates you have been dropped a few pegs on the pecking order, then you weren't very committed to your class to begin with and only played it because it was the FoTM way to be top dog.


WTH are you talking about, your pets allow yout ot bring lust in BM and basically any buff they raid may need, you bring Enrage dispels and i know you guys can interupt because our hunter does it.
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1 Tauren Hunter
0
the qq on the hunters forums in cata was unbelieveable, yet heres a hunter all up in mage stuff, please get out sir, you been buffed ,have the best aoe in game and did the same damn thing in cata mages as doing now.

of course it was ok when you whined and cried,right?

worry about your class
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90 Night Elf Hunter
6730
True story: Hunters don't bring anything of substance to a Raid outside of Pure DPS. We have no brez, no raid cool down, no buffs that aren't brought by other classes, no special snowflake ability (dispel, interrupt). JUST. PURE. DPS

Now, care to guess what spot Hunters have occupied since WoTLK on the DPS ladder? Mid pack with one spec. The other 2 specs were nearly DFL (dead freaking last). This is going on 2 years now.

Yet somehow we still manage to raid, still manage to see content and still manage to make ourselves valuable. But I can tell you I have been passed up more than once for that final ranged DPS spot in favor of a Mage because Mage DPS has ALWAYS (caveat one small period of time in WOW history) been the top dog in DPS.

Do I want to see the Mage class languish at the bottom, no. You are a pure DPS so that would be silly. Do I think that you should automatically get the top spot(s). No, because maybe somewhere along the way someone decided to let the rest of us have a turn.

The Mage class has some of the strongest control in the game. That has not changed. The damage coefficients will be tweaked until you have a spec capable of placing you mid to top DPS. If you don't think this will happen quickly then you fail to know the history of your class.

But if (and it's a big, unlikely "IF") blizzard decided to let Mages stay mid pack for a tier it's not the end of the world. You can always either re-roll, or just ride it out like everyone else has had to do at some time, or another.

In the interim, instead of having a pity party, use your time wisely to learn how to play your class better. Sometimes when you have adversity, the time spent overcoming it makes you a better person (or in this case, player). If you just give up because you have 2 days of data that indicates you have been dropped a few pegs on the pecking order, then you weren't very committed to your class to begin with and only played it because it was the FoTM way to be top dog.


WTH are you talking about, your pets allow yout ot bring lust in BM and basically any buff they raid may need, you bring Enrage dispels and i know you guys can interupt because our hunter does it.


I said we don't bring anything that is not covered by another class. While my pets certainly CAN bring many buffs, none of them are truly needed in a typical raid composition because they are already covered. We have no "special snowflake ability" just clones of what other classes bring.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
6730
the qq on the hunters forums in cata was unbelieveable, yet heres a hunter all up in mage stuff, please get out sir, you been buffed ,have the best aoe in game and did the same damn thing in cata mages as doing now.

of course it was ok when you whined and cried,right?

worry about your class


And yet here I am playing the same Hunter I played in Cata..guess I adapted and went on with life.
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1 Tauren Hunter
0
the qq on the hunters forums in cata was unbelieveable, yet heres a hunter all up in mage stuff, please get out sir, you been buffed ,have the best aoe in game and did the same damn thing in cata mages as doing now.

of course it was ok when you whined and cried,right?

worry about your class


And yet here I am playing the same Hunter I played in Cata..guess I adapted and went on with life.


still cried about it then, and mages have every right to be upset.

its a very radical swing and probably highly unpleasent to mage raiders who were used to fulfilling a certain role(even if not the top dps'er)

you just sound like hunter whos glad to be in the position hes in and doesnt want to see mages get some form back.

its too bad because i dont likely see this sticking, blizz will make the right call im betting make some tuning adjustments to the class
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90 Night Elf Hunter
6730
And PS. Hunters TOP DPS spot is still very close to the bottom. So you can claim we were buffed, but obviously the numbers don't bear that out.
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