DoC a completely unfun mechanic. (Feral)

100 Night Elf Druid
20140
03/15/2013 12:53 PMPosted by Waraila
Seems to be like they are trying to force feral into the choice of DoC


They very nearly did.

On the ptr, before our current t15 raid gear was finalised, the 2pc would have been to add a combo point after using a PS proc.

Me and a few others argued against this because it forced the DoC rotation onto ferals and gave us no choice in the lv 90 talents. Other ferals disagreed because of the prevailing attitude of DoC being superior and any feral who doesn't take it was bad.

Thankfully GC seems to agree that forcing the DoC rotation is a bad idea.


I'm not going to say that ferals who don't use DoC are bad, but ferals who don't use their PS procs ARE bad, regardless of their level 90 choice.
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90 Night Elf Druid
13405
i dont get point of 6min CD for this ability O_o
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90 Worgen Druid
17805
03/14/2013 02:33 PMPosted by Raxion
Popping a CD every 1.5 minutes isn't really something I wanted to do either. I had it macroed with Berserk, having it on a 1.5 minute CD killed that macro. Nerfing it to 10% damage just made it useless.

1) The macro will still work. If you cast NV and then Berserk it will cast them both at the same time. If Berserk is down but NV is up it will cast NV.

2) NV is not useless. It was nerfed, but not anywhere near useless. The biggest problem is you can't use the extra 10% during pots/lust. Otherwise the extra 10% the other times is still useful and makes up for some of it. NV is still sub-optimal for most fights, yes, but it was before so not much has really changed.

3) Datah, why do you keep deleting your posts????
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90 Worgen Druid
17805
03/15/2013 02:12 PMPosted by Ryecoke


They very nearly did.

On the ptr, before our current t15 raid gear was finalised, the 2pc would have been to add a combo point after using a PS proc.

Me and a few others argued against this because it forced the DoC rotation onto ferals and gave us no choice in the lv 90 talents. Other ferals disagreed because of the prevailing attitude of DoC being superior and any feral who doesn't take it was bad.

Thankfully GC seems to agree that forcing the DoC rotation is a bad idea.


I'm not going to say that ferals who don't use DoC are bad, but ferals who don't use their PS procs ARE bad, regardless of their level 90 choice.

Right. I don't think forcing people to use PS procs forces them to use DoC. You could benefit from the CPs regardless of your talent choice.

The point I initially made was that it increases the gap between DoC and other options because with that extra CP after a PS proc you are more likely able to use DoC on a finisher, which is a small DPS increase. What they went with now, imo, still does the same thing (gives a better chance at using DoC powered finishers) but steered away from the PS proc bit.
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100 Night Elf Druid
14515
Isn't NV the weakest talent of the three for ferals in PvE content? The NV nerf was primarily aimed at PvP.
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90 Troll Druid
SY
10815
I play with HotW and do just fine. I personally prefer the agility boost considering its worth about 3 of any of our other stats.

It also gets plenty of its on-use; just pop HotW, equip a caster weapon and bing bang boom! top dps.
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90 Troll Druid
14640
[quote]
It's the level 90 talents. Ever since DoC came out, those that use it seem to think that the ferals that don't are inferior. I personally think it's a terrible talent because the healing is useless and there's too much overload.

healing useless
useless.
wow.
you know you can heal other people in the raid besides yourself right?
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90 Troll Druid
14580
healing useless
useless.
wow.
you know you can heal other people in the raid besides yourself right?

Find a target.
Target must have damage taken.
Target must be in range.
You must respect raid mechanics
You must maximize your damage output, DoC doesn't give you a big gap to use it.

It's logistically easier to macro it to yourself.
Healing other players or yourself, your damage does not change if executed properly.

Bringing this to the Moonkin argument: DoC is the top DPS talent, but no one takes it because it's just so difficult to execute as it was intended to be. Macroing HT to yourself was just easier and less stressful.
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90 Worgen Druid
11015
I'm probably just going to end up picking HoTW, honestly. The DPS difference shouldn't even be noticeable, and DoC just isn't something I feel like bothering with. On top of all that, I can pop HoTW before Tranq and empower it.

I'm still not content with knowing how much more efficient DoC is compared to the other 90 talents. The new talent system was supposed to provide choice, when really it's not any different than the former one.
Edited by Raxion on 3/16/2013 2:17 AM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
11015
[quote]
It's the level 90 talents. Ever since DoC came out, those that use it seem to think that the ferals that don't are inferior. I personally think it's a terrible talent because the healing is useless and there's too much overload.

healing useless
useless.
wow.
you know you can heal other people in the raid besides yourself right?


Are you really implying that after every combo finisher, a Feral should be casting HT on a hurt raid member? There's literally 'no way' you could do this without negatively impacting your DPS. It's already a big enough pain in the !@# to have it macroed to yourself, suggesting one should be clicking through Grid and tabbing back to the boss after every finisher is just retarded.
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90 Troll Druid
14580
suggesting one should be clicking through Grid and tabbing back to the boss after every finisher is just retarded.

mouseover macro
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90 Worgen Druid
11015
03/16/2013 02:31 AMPosted by Cyous
suggesting one should be clicking through Grid and tabbing back to the boss after every finisher is just retarded.

mouseover macro


Even with a mouseover macro, it'd still be far too much micro-managing to bother with. I use my PS procs to heal myself when I'm low enough for an HT to not overheal, and that's really it. If I'm missing 15k health, I'm not even going to waste the global as one tick of a healer's HoT will cap me back off.

Weaving HT into the rotation just doesn't feel right. It completely kills the fluidity of the rotation, or at least it does for me. Spamming HT on myself when I'm full health just feels dumb. Using PS procs on other raid members would definitely be functional, but in the end, would more-than-likely end up being detrimental to my overall DPS.

This is why I said DoC was an unfun mechanic. It makes no sense, kills rotation fluidity, and adds complexity to an already complex rotation.
Edited by Raxion on 3/16/2013 2:51 AM PDT
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100 Undead Monk
13175
I have no problem with it because been pvping as feral since I start playing the game It feels kind of second nature. Would be nice if they lowered the c/d on HOTW by 3 mins and reduced the duration so I can spec out of incarnation for pvp or use it while tanking.
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55 Worgen Mage
11525

At a 496 ilvl, NV now parses around 98k DPS, HoTW parses around 99k DPS, and DoC parses around 104k DPS.


A total of 6k DPS difference if you're a robot playing perfectly is not gonna make or break your raid.

Weaving HT into my rotation just isn't something I enjoy, but if I want to keep my DPS at a reasonable level, I have no choice.


You should be using HT even without DoC, you can just be a bit more selective about it without DoC.


On top of it only bein a 6k dps difference if you're a robot there's the opposite effect that so many people on these forums ignore. If you botch it a little the number goes down. If you botch it significantly the number plummets to far below that of NV/HOTW.

This is what always bothers me about these kinds of arguments. Is one theoretically better than the other 2? Yes. Absolutely. This does not make it the go-to choice at all times for every single player in the game. Someone somewhat skilled, but that has trouble with the feral rotation already will do absolutely terrible with DoC, but will take it anyway because someone on a spreadsheet said it was best instead of the other superior choices (for them) in NV/HOTW.
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90 Worgen Druid
17805



A total of 6k DPS difference if you're a robot playing perfectly is not gonna make or break your raid.



You should be using HT even without DoC, you can just be a bit more selective about it without DoC.


On top of it only bein a 6k dps difference if you're a robot there's the opposite effect that so many people on these forums ignore. If you botch it a little the number goes down. If you botch it significantly the number plummets to far below that of NV/HOTW.

This is what always bothers me about these kinds of arguments. Is one theoretically better than the other 2? Yes. Absolutely. This does not make it the go-to choice at all times for every single player in the game. Someone somewhat skilled, but that has trouble with the feral rotation already will do absolutely terrible with DoC, but will take it anyway because someone on a spreadsheet said it was best instead of the other superior choices (for them) in NV/HOTW.

I'm not a simcraft person, but I can't imagine it being that terrible unless you're letting PS procs fall off without using them at all. Even if you use DoC procs on shred instead of rip/rake it's not earth-shatteringly bad, juts sub-optimal. Could be wrong, but that's how I look at it.
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90 Troll Druid
8855

3) Datah, why do you keep deleting your posts????


i like to keep an aura of mystery

also i haven't played enough lately, so many of my posts are wild speculation, and thus i quickly feel remorse at posting potentially false things
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90 Troll Druid
17085

3) Datah, why do you keep deleting your posts????


i like to keep an aura of mystery

also i haven't played enough lately, so many of my posts are wild speculation, and thus i quickly feel remorse at posting potentially false things
That is rather respectful of you :) So many boards are filled with needless trolling.
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90 Worgen Druid
17590
Your choice of talents between NV, HotW, or DoC are your choices in the end. I played NV last tier because it was easier and went HotW the first week of T15 and briefly made the change to DoC after the looking at logs and realizing that many of the top ranked ferals were DoC. Yes, DoC is different to play compared to the other talents and after playing it for a week and then using it on the 2nd week of raiding, I'm fairy comfortable playing it. Also, after playing DoC and going back to other talents, the rotation just really seems easy and somewhat boring. If you look at logs, many ferals are still using HotW and NV and they're still doing fine. HotW Tranq/Hurricane has its uses if your in a progression guild and need that last minute external CD.
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90 Troll Druid
14580
also i haven't played enough lately, so many of my posts are wild speculation, and thus i quickly feel remorse at posting potentially false things

But you're Datah.

Who cares if you're, technically, right or wrong? It will become right.
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90 Troll Druid
12960
keep in mind, they reduced the buff by 50% (from 20-10%), but they also cut the CD in half. overall you put out the same if not more since you're using it more often, it is still a viable choice if you dont like DoC
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