Why PvP sucks

90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
Sadly there's no way to fix all of this, but here goes.

Too many abilities
Back to back Death Grip, two sets of hand spells, Charge > Charge > 30 sec CD Heroic Leap, druid with Blink and Ice Block, monk with baseline Nitro Boosts, etc. PvP was more fun and arguably more skillful when there were half the abilities.

Another problem is abilities just don't feel special anymore. What happened to concentrated coolness? Take Hand of Freedom -- nowadays there's Death's Advance, Phantasm, Burst of Speed, Blazing Speed, and Tiger's Lust.

Too many fuc*ing pets
More often than not there's a zoo on me or in the general area, obscuring my vision. Stampede is the worst offender, but recently the following were added: Guardian of Ancient Kings, Murder of Crows, Demo summons a bunch of imps, hunter and warlock can both summon secondary pets, shaman elementals can be permanent and used in arena, etc.

I've always enjoyed making WoW PvP clips and movies, but whenever I record something in MoP, the game just looks dumb. I don't know how this plays out in PvE, but in PvP it's beyond obnoxious.

Too much stealth
Druid, hunter, mage, priest (Spectral Guise), and a rogue's entire team -- it's just too much. Nerf Subterfuge to only protect from hostile actions because as soon as a rogue opens, he should be visible.

CD stacking
In MoP, just about every class has a burst CD, and the classes that already had one now have two or three. Put these on a shared 10 sec CD or something. Swifty macros detract from the game.

This isn't quite CD stacking, but Bestial Wrath is poorly designed, an offensive CD and defensive CD rolled into one. How is it still around after all these years -- do the devs not remember the effect Beast Cleave had on the WoW tournament scene? Granted, watching spell cleave tournaments towards the end of WotLK was equally boring...

The melee vs. caster arms race is over. We've nuked each other and ruined the game
Mage casts Frozen Orb, Deep Freeze, spams Ice Lance: nice casting, bro. Kil'Jaeden's Cunning. Casters probably need this stuff with how the game has evolved, but nerf it. Nerf gap-closers and gap-openers too. Take away my double Freedom and put Emancipate on a short cooldown, I don't give a sh!t, nerfs all around instead of everyone always getting new toys to keep up with each other.

Nerf blanket silences and then nerf silence immunities. Remember when there was only Aura Mastery? Now other healers have one and so does warlock. Nerf all of this crap. Hunter felt better designed as a caster than a melee.

Some spells are balanced too much around counters
Counter-play is interesting, but do we really need Berserker Rage, Lichborne, Desecrated Ground, Nimble Brew, and Tremor on a ~30 sec CD that can be cast while the shaman is feared? If fears are so powerful, just nerf them and tone down the counters.

Mass Dispel and Shattering Throw have been around for ages and are not necessarily OP, but Divine Shield should be balanced around its own power. Make it reduce healing done by 50% and lower its CD to 3 min -- then make it immune to all dispels. Hand of Purity may not see much use because of the current flow of the game (and because Aff kinda sucks), but its design is flawed: an ability directly aimed at DoT specs and useless against everyone else.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
Blizzard doesn't try to improve major PvP systems
The dispel system revamp was aimed at PvE and wasn't necessarily an improvement. I'm not gonna try to tackle diminishing returns, but I think the devs should set out with the intention to revamp this system and engage with the community as to the best way to achieve this.

Snares, snares, snares -- just about everyone's got one, they're spammable, and many are automatic. PvP might be more interesting if only some classes had one (and this doesn't mean everyone except Ret), or if everyone had one but they were on CD's...I don't know the best solution, but snares should be less mindless and less permanent, and perhaps more effective when they are used. "But my latency is too high, I always need a snare!" Bad latency is always a detriment in online gaming.

There are too many stuns, offensive dispels, and just about every DPS has an interrupt (required for PvE, I guess). Classes feel diluted. It's no longer I bring this and my teammate brings that. TBC, or maybe WotLK, had the ideal number of abilities.

Too much competition on select servers/BG's
Rank 1 titles don't mean as much as they should when very skilled but perhaps unworthy teams transfer to dead BG's to get 'em. Why not merge the US battlegroups from 13 down to 3 -- east, central, west -- or something along those lines. If teams tie for R1, the first team to reach that rating gets it. Policing win-trading would be a lot easier as well.

Please enable cross-server arena teams. There aren't enough of us anymore to find decent teammates on most servers. Not all of us want to transfer to Tich or whatever.

The RBG conquest point cap is ridiculous
There are pros and cons to RBG's awarding a higher cap than arena. On the one hand, I didn't want RBG's to die out. On the other, it's lame to force players to do something they don't want to do. RBG's require more organization, but arena requires far more personal skill.

According to whatsmycap.com, a 3k arena rating awards 3150 conquest points, whereas a 2k RBG rating awards 3214. Personally I'm okay with the RBG cap being a little higher, but this gap is far too wide.

RBG class/spec balance
A couple patches into an expansion there should be some semblance of PvP balance. The 5.2 changes improved arena, but what was done to address RBG's? Class comp is actually more rigid than arena rather than less (as the devs may have originally hoped). Frost DK-Moonkin continues to be as detrimental to RBG's as Arms-BM was to 5.1 arena, but rather than nerf these the monk class was thrown a bone in Ring of Peace. Now we have to suffer through more of this crap rather than less.

So, far higher point cap, a number of specs aren't allowed to participate, and Blizzard twiddles their thumbs. Melee was weak in Cata RBG's, too.
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100 Human Death Knight
11005
hey you ^ with the face
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90 Human Warlock
7410
I don't know about you but the fun outweighs the frustrations, easily. And expecting balance from Blizzard is rather silly. Have you seen the latest hotfixes (i'm sure you have) ?! It just shows that they are at a loss. Buffs, nerfs adding abilities, taking abilities. More CC, nerf CC, buff CC back up.

It's simply insane. If I was to over analyze it, i'd probably wouldn't play any of my toons. Overall good post, can't really contribute simply because I don't worry about it like that.

You're calling for a lot of nerfs and changes to abilities, but I can understand why. It was put together well, but a bit too much "QQ" for me.

GL with the discussion !
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90 Human Warrior
0
I agree PVP in general has gotten out of hand although the understanding that with each patch people expect new things.

But maybe next Expo being the fact were all playing MISTS of Pandaria maybe when this comes out we i dont know sorta forget 70% of all the attacks and stuff we have learnt over the last 2 expansions and set everything back to BC or early WOTLK :D

This would be an easy way to explain the loss in abilities because we had like amnesia or something at the end of MOP and then blizz can super overhaul the game and start fresh resetting everything we know and dont particularly love :D
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
my friend made some good points, the first one about fears -- it's not Fear itself that's OP, but AoE fears. remember when cast-time CC used to last 10 sec? Fear and Poly were nerfed to 8 sec, but Howl and Psychic Scream were 8 sec and remained at 8 sec. nerf these to 6 sec and then nerf Totemic Restoration because Tremor on a ~30 sec CD is silly

another general PvP problem is it's much more difficult to OOM healers in the recent xpacs, and even if they do OOM, they still heal quite a bit on fumes. PvP has become too focused on burst and instant CC rather than pressure and skillfully applied CC chains

I don't know about you but the fun outweighs the frustrations, easily. And expecting balance from Blizzard is rather silly. Have you seen the latest hotfixes (i'm sure you have) ?! It just shows that they are at a loss. Buffs, nerfs adding abilities, taking abilities. More CC, nerf CC, buff CC back up.

It's simply insane. If I was to over analyze it, i'd probably wouldn't play any of my toons. Overall good post, can't really contribute simply because I don't worry about it like that.

You're calling for a lot of nerfs and changes to abilities, but I can understand why. It was put together well, but a bit too much "QQ" for me.

GL with the discussion !

thanks, and i understand how it comes off as QQ. the thing is i've played since vanilla, have over 300,000 HK's, and something like 10k arena games played. it's hard not to be analytical when you're so invested. i really like WoW PvP, but it's grown worse in a lot of ways rather than better
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90 Undead Mage
8440
Good posts, 100% agreement with 99% of it. I've also never heard the caster/melee arms race summed up so well and if any blue with the authority to change the game takes one thing out of these posts I hope its this:

The melee vs. caster arms race is over. We've nuked each other and ruined the game
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68 Undead Rogue
0

The melee vs. caster arms race is over. We've nuked each other and ruined the game
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9330
I wish they would try harder with ghetto pvp specs.

For rbgs, there's no reason to take arms, fury, enhance, feral, retribution, combat, maybe windwalker over other things; it's just better to stack the 'good' specs.

For arena, some things are just really underplayed and they should be given small buffs: enhance, elemental, arcane, survival, etc.

And when the hell has anyone ever played a holy priest in pvp?
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90 Human Warlock
7410
my friend made some good points, the first one about fears -- it's not Fear itself that's OP, but AoE fears. remember when cast-time CC used to last 10 sec? Fear and Poly were nerfed to 8 sec, but Howl and Psychic Scream were 8 sec and remained at 8 sec. nerf these to 6 sec and then nerf Totemic Restoration because Tremor on a ~30 sec CD is silly

another general PvP problem is it's much more difficult to OOM healers in the recent xpacs, and even if they do OOM, they still heal quite a bit on fumes. PvP has become too focused on burst and instant CC rather than pressure and skillfully applied CC chains

I don't know about you but the fun outweighs the frustrations, easily. And expecting balance from Blizzard is rather silly. Have you seen the latest hotfixes (i'm sure you have) ?! It just shows that they are at a loss. Buffs, nerfs adding abilities, taking abilities. More CC, nerf CC, buff CC back up.

It's simply insane. If I was to over analyze it, i'd probably wouldn't play any of my toons. Overall good post, can't really contribute simply because I don't worry about it like that.

You're calling for a lot of nerfs and changes to abilities, but I can understand why. It was put together well, but a bit too much "QQ" for me.

GL with the discussion !

thanks, and i understand how it comes off as QQ. the thing is i've played since vanilla, have over 300,000 HK's, and something like 10k arena games played. it's hard not to be analytical when you're so invested. i really like WoW PvP, but it's grown worse in a lot of ways rather than better


Oh yeah you're dedicated, i can tell. It's understandable because its seems like you have invested a lot of time and work into the game. Glad you still like PvP though, it's an ever changing living entity within WoW. Maybe one day Blizz will be able to achieve balance.....we can only hope.
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90 Undead Death Knight
5620
Yes there is too much of everything, to the point that there are no GCDs available to SPAM cooldown abilities def or ofensive, and a swifty macro that activates 3-4 abilities is always hilarious

Too many escapes especially, those completely ruin any kind of strategy other than the hit and run pillar galore it is now
Edited by Peztilence on 3/16/2013 4:34 AM PDT
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90 Human Hunter
12760
The problem is the gear differences between players.. cause if that game willl never feel balanced.. fraking frustrating for the un geared player..

Oh and to correct you.. shamans have no permanent pets
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90 Human Rogue
6740
And when the hell has anyone ever played a holy priest in pvp?


Holy priest has some sweet AoE healing.

I remember the purported 'counter to dot cleave' had 2 priests, one disc and holy back in cata.

Or at least I think it was. Haven't seen any in arena's mind you.
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25 Goblin Warrior
90
i like this thread
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Very rare constructive post on these forums that actually touches on the real issues and not about "THIS CLASS KILLED ME. NERF THEM PLZ!".

+1
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