Combat with 4p T15, stats and shadowcraft

100 Night Elf Rogue
12425
Hello, I have recently completed the 4 piece bonus for the T15 set. I was hoping to throw out some questions to the public on combat with this bonus since it seems to change a few things.

Primarly, I am noticing that the value of haste diminishes to the point where it is no longer beneficial to gem for haste but rather switch to gemming for agi. This kind of makes sense to me after playing around with the set bonus as combat for a while. During AR+SB and gemmed for full haste I was unable to dump my energy quickly enough and was hovering around 90-100 energy for most of the duration.

If I do gem for haste, I notice that the value of haste drops below mastery and it becomes more beneficial to reforge for mastery. So there seem to be two paths. 1: Gem for agi and reforge for haste. 2: Gem for haste and reforge for mastery.

As a side note, the novelty of a 0.5 sec gcd diminishes quickly and becomes pretty annoying. It does not leave very much room for thought; just spamming SS and throwing evis in there before capping combo points.

Also if any folks whom are affiliated with Shadowcraft; it seems to be having trouble reforging for combat with the 4 piece bonus. Whenever I try to do so the reforge simply stalls and gives nothing back. I am not sure what is causing the issue. I have to copy down the stat weights and do the reforging using WoW Reforge. Here is a link to my shadowcraft page if anyone is interested in this problem.

http://shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com/us/madoran/skarzog
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100 Troll Rogue
21855
Not sure about the reforger issue but what you are seeing with mastery equal if not greater then the value of haste isn't unexpected. The 4pc puts a huge portion of combat's damage into the AR+SB phase so energy capping there is very valuable. Further mastery grants more raw damage per point then haste so if you are wasting a substantial amount of energy then the relative of value of mastery vs. haste should increase.

Note that things may change somewhat when you get RPPM trinkets, the RPPM trinkets inflate the value of haste somewhat, whether it covers the value loss from energy wastage is somewhat set dependent.
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90 Goblin Rogue
12650
I have been trying to keep up with it all, and as you said Fiery the energy capping during the combo really kicks the modeling in the pants.

I appreciate the work thus far, and I know it's never an exact. That said, with the RPPM trinkets, would it be relevant to keep the haste coming simply for the procs? Say, for Combat (if that's what you mean by set dependent). Or would that start to become a judgment call?
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100 Human Rogue
11320
I am noticing a number of top rogues who have completed their 4pcs reverting back to assas. Some even choosing to do so even with superior combat weapons. Is it possible the sim is over valuing the 4pc and maybe even combat in general?

I only have 2pc right now myself (which sims at a loss for assass) so I cannot test myself but I would ask combat rogues with the 4pc if the increase is as dramatic as the sims suggest it is or if there has been a miscalculation somewhere. As more rogues finish their 4pc and use public logs it will likely be much easier to determine the difference but for now I'm just curious about what rogues with the bonus have seen.
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100 Troll Rogue
21855
The fact that two systems developed independently and using different computations place the set bonus at a similar value suggests to me that the set bonus is modeled correctly in a patchwork setting.

What I suspect you are seeing is the result of two factors:
1) Combat isn't clearly dominant with the set bonus anymore. The last minute buff to assassin's resolve has made assassination quite competitive with combat post 4pc.
2) The combat model is VERY aggressive, it assumes that you will get full use of AR+SB on CD with very little delay. There are a number of T15 fights (thinking of normal but it likely applies to heroic) where this may not be true, which reduces the value of the set bonus and combat's dps somewhat.

I appreciate the work thus far, and I know it's never an exact. That said, with the RPPM trinkets, would it be relevant to keep the haste coming simply for the procs? Say, for Combat (if that's what you mean by set dependent). Or would that start to become a judgment call?

That will depend somewhat on your gear, at this point the shadowcraft trinket models are in pretty good shape so in general I would use shadowcraft to answer those questions.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
12425
I am noticing a number of top rogues who have completed their 4pcs reverting back to assas. Some even choosing to do so even with superior combat weapons. Is it possible the sim is over valuing the 4pc and maybe even combat in general?

I only have 2pc right now myself (which sims at a loss for assass) so I cannot test myself but I would ask combat rogues with the 4pc if the increase is as dramatic as the sims suggest it is or if there has been a miscalculation somewhere. As more rogues finish their 4pc and use public logs it will likely be much easier to determine the difference but for now I'm just curious about what rogues with the bonus have seen.


I think the issue is that it is very difficult to get the full potential out of combat, and very simple do so from Assassination. You will most definitely see a dramatic increase in your dps as combat. I saw about a 10-15k dps increase when I tried it as shadowcraft suggested.

Honestly the 0.5 sec gcd is not fun to work with, coupled with the 40% energy reduction to abilities during SB most rogues with a decent amount of haste will find themselves unable to use energy quickly enough.

I also had trouble getting the full use out of KS. With the 4 piece I was throwing out so many eviscerates during AR+SB that KS would come off cd in the middle of it. I tried forcing KS right before Ar+Sb, but within one more cycle it would fall back into the same pattern.

Shadowcraft might be underestimating Assassination somewhat. I ran my set up through Simcraft with a second opinion. The two sources agreed fairly well on Combat within 1000 dps. However, Simcraft evaluated Assassination much higher for my setup than Shadowcraft.

For right now I think the 4 piece will bring combat in line with Assassination, but Assassination is much much easier to pull off properly, especially in a raid environment.
Edited by Skarzog on 3/19/2013 5:20 PM PDT
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100 Worgen Rogue
14745
Any interest in posting the logs?
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100 Night Elf Rogue
12425
Any interest in posting the logs?


I'm sorry I was not taking any logs when I was messing around with combat. If its any use I could try and take some boss dummy logs, I don't know if I will be running combat in raids this week though.
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