Mothers in Azeroth

90 Night Elf Warrior
9275
Auntie Sylvannas isn't allowed in Dalaran, Neth :O


Kids: "Mommy can we stay with Auntie Sylvanas while you go to Thunder Isle?"

Vereesa: "Eh? Whats that? Sure why not." *Vereesa runs off to Thunder Isle.*
(On THunder Isle)

Veressa: "Oh Crap... I forgot to let Sylvanas know their favorite food."

(In the UnderCity.)

Sylvanas: "What cute little nephews I have. I can't wait to raise you both to be evil!"
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100 Night Elf Hunter
20700
Vareesa only hates Blood Elves...so she totally could leave the kids with Sylvanas. :D
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100 Night Elf Mage
11065
Jesus can we get a box of Kleenex in here?


Here ya go :*)

Tear Stained Handkerchief
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90 Blood Elf Priest
14095
Everyone else apparently doesn't have a mother. Garrosh, Varian, Kael'thas, Arthas, Moira, Vanessa VanCleef and Jaina.


Varian had a mother. Her name was Varia. I'm sure you can guess where he got his name from.
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03/21/2013 05:22 PMPosted by Raynell
ou forget that Garrosh had the orcish equivalent of Smallpox,


I didn't forget, but I didn't think his mother abandoned him! I just thought it was fel orcs that began to invade that said he wasn't useful.
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Arthas committed patricide and killed his father Terenas Menethil.

While this is true, we never found out what exactly happened to his mother or sister, his mother is assumed dead now, which is understandable. His sister is another story left for that thread.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8198732876

Cairne Bloodhoof was murdered which left his son Baine to deal with fallout and pick up the pieces.

Which is good. But his mother also died early on and I actually had to Google Baine to find out what his mother's name was.

Anduin didn't just lose his mother. He had to suffer through a period in which his father was lost to him and then his surrogate father ended up becoming the Lich King.

Yes his mother died early on before we could even really know her character. All I know is she gave birth and died in the riots.

Thrall didn't just lose his mother, he lost his father too and his adoptive father wasn't a picture of kindness. He enslaved him and tried to kill him. That will cause some father issues if nothing else will.

Again, showing how his mother died never allowing for a relationship to develop in this game between a mother and her child.

Garrosh was abandoned and his father wasn't exactly around to raise him, though he was an influence on him. I'm sure you recall Grom Hellscream.

Source? Never heard this before and it's not on his Wowpedia and wowiki pages. So for all we know you could be making this up. Either way, no relationship with his mother.
http://www.wowpedia.org/Garrosh_Hellscream

Leyara lost her daughter and her husband was murdered as well. Her relationship with her father-in-law didn't exactly result in warm and fuzzy quality time together either unfortunately.

One example of us see a mother's relationship with their child and how losing a child can affect you. But, we don't get to see any character develop into an adult and become important part of the lore having only being raised with a mother's influence.

Vereesa (Windrunner) is raising twins alone now that her husband Rhonin was killed in Theramore. She's also dealing with a few sister issues.

The first one we get to "see." But really, the children have only been mentioned very few times, both in books. One time when they were being born in the War of the Ancients trilogy and the other at their father's funeral. We have yet to see them in game which leads me to believe they won't play any important role.

Moira (Thaurissan) is dealing with the death of her husband and her father turning to diamond, while being a part of a new leadership.She's dealing with something many working mothers are familiar with in balancing her dedication to her son and the council I'm sure.

FINALLY! This is what I've been saying. Moira is the first mother we may actually see in this game raise their child without the father's influence. This is what I've been trying to say. We have seen plenty of characters throughout Warcraft being raised with only their father's to influence them. Baby Thaurissan will be the first without a father and only a mother, if we ever see him grow up in Warcraft, none of us know when Blizzard will stop with the Warcraft franchise.

Suna Silentstrike is another one who has lost her husband to tragedy.

Who?

As I was trying to say in my original post, this is not about male character's losing their wife, or female character's losing their husband. It's about how no character in this game (as of today, March 21, 2013) has been raised with only their mother's influence to carve the character they will evolve into. They've either been raise by a father, both parents or no parents.
Edited by Lorelaî on 3/21/2013 7:37 PM PDT
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03/21/2013 07:26 PMPosted by Vanarela
Everyone else apparently doesn't have a mother. Garrosh, Varian, Kael'thas, Arthas, Moira, Vanessa VanCleef and Jaina.


Varian had a mother. Her name was Varia. I'm sure you can guess where he got his name from.

Varia Wrynn was his grandmother.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Varia_Wrynn
Edited by Lorelaî on 3/21/2013 7:35 PM PDT
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100 Human Monk
4140
Just to provide some balanced perspective, here are the fathers and husbands that have been casualties of war:

Arthas committed patricide and killed his father Terenas Menethil.
Cairne Bloodhoof was murdered which left his son Baine to deal with fallout and pick up the pieces.
Anduin didn't just lose his mother. He had to suffer through a period in which his father was lost to him and then his surrogate father ended up becoming the Lich King.
Thrall didn't just lose his mother, he lost his father too and his adoptive father wasn't a picture of kindness. He enslaved him and tried to kill him. That will cause some father issues if nothing else will.
Garrosh was abandoned and his father wasn't exactly around to raise him, though he was an influence on him. I'm sure you recall [url="http://www.wowpedia.org/Grom_Hellscream"]Grom Hellscream[/url].
Leyara lost her daughter and her husband was murdered as well. Her relationship with her [url="http://www.wowpedia.org/Fandral_Staghelm"]father-in-law[/url] didn't exactly result in warm and fuzzy quality time together either unfortunately.
Vereesa (Windrunner) is raising twins alone now that her husband Rhonin was killed in Theramore. She's also dealing with a few sister issues.
Moira (Thaurissan) is dealing with the death of her husband and her father turning to diamond, while being a part of a new leadership.She's dealing with something many working mothers are familiar with in balancing her dedication to her son and the council I'm sure.
Suna Silentstrike is another one who has lost her husband to tragedy.

War is ugly and dirty and the stories we want to tell reflect that. It affects everyone in one way or another. We can't put every story on the forefront, but we can hope that the stories that are available convey the struggles that plague the denizens.


That's all well and good, but to be honest my big gripe with females in Warcraft is how utterly insane they tend to be.

As a female working at Blizzard, how can you not see this? Kerrigan, all the Windrunner sisters, that old lady in Diablo(Adra?), even Tyrande....it doesn't seem to take much before they're willing to kill a bunch of people(even her own people, in Tyrande's case) for very little reason.
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100 Night Elf Druid
12910
03/21/2013 03:42 PMPosted by Seebach
Actually I'm pretty sure that she is currently assisting Jaina at the Isle of Thunder. Her children (how old are they by the way) are currently home alone.

Giramar and Galadin were born just after the Third War, so they're probably somewhere around 9 to 11 years old. I'm sure Vereesa has a nanny or someone watching them, maybe that woman who helped her in WotA while Rhonin was gone.

03/21/2013 07:34 PMPosted by Lorelaî
Source? Never heard this before and it's not on his Wowpedia and wowiki pages. So for all we know you could be making this up. Either way, no relationship with his mother.

Rise of the Horde book, or maybe Beyond the Dark Portal. Grom visits Garadar (which was a city made to keep the red pox infected orcs away from the Horde, which is how they escaped the fel corruption) and turns away in disgust.

I think it was Grom anyway. Someone certainly went to Garadar.
Edited by Reignac on 3/21/2013 8:42 PM PDT
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100 Human Mage
19055
It was Kargath Bladefist, actually, since I remember Grom was busy with guerilla warfare with the Alliance forces at the Dark Portal for most of Beyond.
Edited by Marriama on 3/21/2013 8:45 PM PDT
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Rise of the Horde book, or maybe Beyond the Dark Portal. Grom visits Garadar (which was a city made to keep the red pox infected orcs away from the Horde, which is how they escaped the fel corruption) and turns away in disgust.

I was referring to the "abandoned" part. Which to me, implied his mother abandoned him and Grom was off fighting the war.
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Community Manager
Source? Never heard this before and it's not on his Wowpedia and wowiki pages. So for all we know you could be making this up. Either way, no relationship with his mother.


I'm not in a position in which I can "make up" things. Source is Dave Kosak. I don't work in a vacuum. ;)

I have to disagree, my well-lit associate :)

Considering that the loss of her husband was her father's fault (he sent you in to recover her afterall) and under the pretense that his daughter was mind controlled, it isn't really a stretch to assume that she goes down to her father's diamond corpse with her son just to show him his grand father, the man whose hatred for the dark irons cost him the knowledge of knowing his father.

As for the matter of the council, considering just how much trouble she went through to sabotage the binding of the 3 hammers in the short story, I feel that she will only use the council (and the alliance) only until it no longer is able to serve her or her sons survival. She'll only do as much as she has to just to preserve that.


If you'll notice, I did say she has no means to reconcile. She may have anger toward him (who wouldn't) but that doesn't mean she doesn't have feelings still somewhere for him either. And I also mentioned that she has to play a role. That role doesn't necessarily mean she has to preserve it after a certain point in time. But, who knows? Only the writers and quest designers know where that can and will go. ;)

Also of note, I'm a bit perplexed by this sort of witch hunt. There are a lot of characters within World of Warcraft that could get more time in one way or another. Everyone has their favorites. The question we wrestle with is whose story do we need to tell and when?

It's also worth mentioning that I don't see the female characters as "crazy". (Even as a female myself.) I personally love Sylvanas. If I was in her shoes, I think I'd likewise be a bit beyond angry or vengeful. I can commiserate with Jaina too. She tried... oh how she tried to be a peacemaker. But, there's only so far you can be pushed before you bite back. We all (including females) make the mistake of seeing anger or emotion in other women as a weakness or a sign that they're unstable. But they have every right to be just as perturbed as their male counterparts, which haven't exactly fared too well in the sanity department either according to many people. If you want stability, Aggra has been an example so far of someone who was able to take Thrall in hand, help him, and remain his imperturbable rock. Does she get a bit emotional? Of course. I mean, she saw her boyfriend split apart and tormented. She's not unfeeling.

Again, this is war. It is also a game. We balance between telling a compelling story and common sense for what makes the most sense for the game and its continuing story. We can't cover every character we want.
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03/22/2013 08:51 AMPosted by Nethaera
Aggra


you will notice she is from outland, where the burning legion was for a bit of time. imo she is some minion of sargeras in disguise and after thrall becomes warchief again after SoO her killing thrall will be the opening of the next expansion and then we will get a different new warchief.
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90 Orc Monk
8275
HOW DARE YOU not mention Mankrik's wife? >;@~~~~<< fire
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100 Troll Mage
18360
My own mother died in a terrible inferno blast accident when she wandered into range of a malicious gnome.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
9275
Thanks Nethaera for bringing your light to this grim dark corner of the forums.
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85 Troll Hunter
7360
Also of note, I'm a bit perplexed by this sort of witch hunt. There are a lot of characters within World of Warcraft that could get more time in one way or another. Everyone has their favorites. The question we wrestle with is whose story do we need to tell and when?

. . . .

Again, this is war. It is also a game. We balance between telling a compelling story and common sense for what makes the most sense for the game and its continuing story. We can't cover every character we want.


Hi Neth,

You're one of my favorite CM's, so please take this in that light. I think you're being a bit defensive here (and I also think it's being provoked by several of the posters here who need to figure out a different tactic to express their views). It's ok that some of these posters are angry about which types of characters are developed and their perception that female characters (mothers in particular here) get short shrift. I sometimes feel similarly (again, my opinion, not offering it as "fact"). But it's not your job to convince them otherwise (hence my concern at the witch hunt comment).

I think you do a great job of laying out the perspective of Blizzard from your point of view. I think you also bring a female perspective to these topics that is very much needed in the gaming industry as a whole.

In terms of the second part I've quoted above, allow me to offer a different perspective. I think the "we can't cover every character" and the implication that that's why there aren't more mother characters in WoW is sort of a false choice. Yes, there are limited resources. Yes, there is a certain amount of focus a story needs to not ramble everywhere and that does place limitations. And I think given the underrepresentation of developed women characters (and in this case mothers) in gaming in general, it would be something Blizzard could be more attentive to.

Overall, these issues have come a long way in the gaming industry. Blizzard has played a leading role in that. And there's a heck of a long way to go. Those things all exist at the same time. It's something I hope you communicate to the story writers and that Blizzard continues to build upon.

Thanks,

Boomer
Edited by Boomerang on 3/22/2013 10:22 AM PDT
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100 Human Death Knight
13475
ITT we learn that the rarest creature on Azeroth is the child who grows up well-adjusted in a two parent household, experiences no major tragedies that claims the lives of any immediate family members, and does not grow up to murder any said family members.
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Community Manager


Hi Neth,

You're one of my favorite CM's, so please take this in that light. I think you're being a bit defensive here (and I also think it's being provoked by several of the posters here who need to figure out a different tactic to express their views). It's ok that some of these posters are angry about which types of characters are developed and their perception that female characters (mothers in particular here) get short shrift. I sometimes feel similarly (again, my opinion, not offering it as "fact"). But it's not your job to convince them otherwise (hence my concern at the witch hunt comment).



My points weren't meant to be defensive. I'm sorry you read it that way. That definitely wasn't my intent. ;) I'm just hoping to have a conversation and get some insights across on our end. I simply wanted to convey that while I recognize the discussion, I'm not in tune with the anger or perception that there is some malicious undertone in regard to mothers or female characters. We do have female and male designers here, so I just would hate for their work to be easily dismissed. It actually is my job to (hopefully) provide insights that may sway discussion or perception. If that doesn't work, then it's also my job to convey to the team here why that is. So, I'm trying to understand the perception and keep discussion on an even plane.

What I meant by witch hunt is simply that there are those to seem to be clinging to an incorrect perception that there is a lack of forethought or care on our end, which really isn't true.

I do also want to thank everyone who has been participating in the discussion. I'm enjoying it.
Edited by Nethaera on 3/28/2013 9:45 AM PDT
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