Pandaren are annoying.

90 Human Rogue
7765
No they aren't responsible for the Well or their evolution from Trolls which was the result of hanging around the thing for so long. They are, however, responsible for getting the Legion's attention and letting them in. They started it.


I don't recall it ever being stated that the Night Elves experiments with the Well being the sole reason that Sargaeras found Azeroth. Yes I do believe that it would have helped make it more noticeable, but the well was described as a beacon in the Nether as it drew its power from the Arcane energies in the Great Void.

So the Night Elves may have hastened the Legion's arrival, but it can't be said that ignoring the Well would have spared Azeroth when you consider that the Legion goes around killing thousands of planets with little difficulty because that is what they are best at. They find a world, invade, and corrupt it. And Azeroth has a big beacon of magic screaming out "INVADE HERE" 24/7.

Most Mantid cut off their wings when they reach adulthood. Only a select few can fly.


Doesn't change the fact that its still just rock, also bearing in mind that the Mantid never actually "try" to destroy everything. They simply order the new breed to attack the wal because they believe in culling the weak from the brood to ensure only the best pass on their genes to create a master race out of the Mantid. The Empress after being corrupted decided to simply destroy everything and went all out instead of simply probing the Shado-Pan defenses. And they can't handle it.
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100 Troll Hunter
13645
Doesn't change the fact that its still just rock, also bearing in mind that the Mantid never actually "try" to destroy everything. They simply order the new breed to attack the wal because they believe in culling the weak from the brood to ensure only the best pass on their genes to create a master race out of the Mantid. The Empress after being corrupted decided to simply destroy everything and went all out instead of simply probing the Shado-Pan defenses. And they can't handle it.

They can't handle it because our presence on Pandaria fueled the Sha of Fear.
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42 Human Hunter
3090
I don't recall it ever being stated that the Night Elves experiments with the Well being the sole reason that Sargaeras found Azeroth. Yes I do believe that it would have helped make it more noticeable, but the well was described as a beacon in the Nether as it drew its power from the Arcane energies in the Great Void.


Blizz stated in their lore that the Night Elves' magic experiments drew the Legion's attention. Plus the actively let them come into Azeroth. Would the Legion have found Azeroth eventually? Maybe but that's speculation. Azshara and her loyal Highborne allowed the Demons in who killed a lot. Of her own people.
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90 Human Rogue
7765
They can't handle it because our presence on Pandaria fueled the Sha of Fear.


So a weakened shadow of an Old God was able to empower a faction enough to the point that the Shado-Pan was nearly destroyed, never mind the Yaungol and Mogu on top of this.

And this same military doctrine is supposed to be able to build an army that could stop the Quiraj armies AND the Burning Legion?
Edited by Kenthil on 3/19/2013 4:43 PM PDT
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100 Troll Hunter
13645
So a weakened shadow of an Old God was able to empower a faction enough to the point that the Shado-Pan was nearly destroyed, never mind the Yaungol and Mogu on top of this.

It almost overwhelmed us too, and the Klaxxi.

The Sha can be VERY powerful. Their potential is endless.

And this same military doctrine is supposed to be able to build an army that could stop the Quiraj armies AND the Burning Legion?

Comprised of all races and across all continents, yes.
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90 Human Rogue
7765
That might be a bit of a stretch of the imagination given that even with the elite discipline military style on TOP of having big numbers it was barely enough to beat the Legion back on 2 separate accounts. It might have been enough for the Kaldorei to stop the Trolls of Kalimdor, but against the Legion it was stated that even with their massive numbers, the demons would always outnumber them still.

Really it was a final gambit in the end that stopped the demons, and the Kaldorei do acknowledge that war is bad, but they seem to carry a "Want peace? Prepare for War" mentality, while the Pandaren have a "Want peace? Don't worry about stuff" mentality. With just a handful of the entire population taking up arms and learning how to seriously fight.

And if the Kaldorei didn't have a warlike and hunter mentality, who would have taught humanity magic in order for them to win the Troll Wars? The Trolls certainly don't have a live and let live mentality. They have a Build an army, enslave the weak and sacrifice them to the Dark Gods mentality.

Really you are saying that if the Shado-Pan had more troops, a LARGE standing army, they could properly defend against anything that they came across. But they do not have a large standing army. They have a relatively small group of maybe a few hundred who are shown to be completely unprepared to handle the threats of their own continent alone when it all comes bearing down on them.

But we are supposed to believe that if the Kaldorei held this same idea that they could then use less troops who are more inexperienced in battle to hold off the exact same threats that required ridiculous manpower to barely survive against? And you cant say "Magic" because it took "Magic" to beat them the Militant times.
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90 Human Monk
13395
can not stand the pandaren myself im so glad im not the only one that sees the pandaren this way.
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90 Human Warrior
16790
The Sha can be VERY powerful. Their potential is endless.


The Sha are overrated garbage that got smacked down in a matter of months. The only reason they were able to get so far in the first place is because they had the element of surprise.

Add that a seventh Sha has never been confirmed, and Kosak has stated that the "Seven Burdens" came from a very early script of the story. Unless there's some hints that the Sha are still around in 5.3, I'd say their story is more or less finished. Garrosh can be messing with any number of things below Org to make himself a threat (Like the things already in RFC), and considering 5.2 is the end of the problems in Pandaria, I wouldn't be surprised if the Sha were done as well.
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90 Draenei Shaman
5800
03/19/2013 06:47 PMPosted by Turagent
The Sha can be VERY powerful. Their potential is endless.


The Sha are overrated garbage that got smacked down in a matter of months. The only reason they were able to get so far in the first place is because they had the element of surprise.

Add that a seventh Sha has never been confirmed, and Kosak has stated that the "Seven Burdens" came from a very early script of the story. Unless there's some hints that the Sha are still around in 5.3, I'd say their story is more or less finished. Garrosh can be messing with any number of things below Org to make himself a threat (Like the things already in RFC), and considering 5.2 is the end of the problems in Pandaria, I wouldn't be surprised if the Sha were done as well.


I don't quite understand your thinking here. I do agree with you on the fact that the Burning Legion is a bigger threat than the Sha, but tf the Sha are overrated because of how quickly they were dispatched then so were the other Old Gods. The Silithid and C'Tun were wiped out in one patch during Vanilla, and so was Yogg-Saron during Wrath. If anything, the only Old God that's legitimately a threat is N'Zoth since he's the only Old God to actually sunder Azeroth (Deathwing was just a pawn) and is probably still at large and/or working with the Naga.

This expansion is about both Pandaria and the faction conflict. Time needs to be devoted to both to tell their story, so it's no surprise if it comes up short. That being said, I still don't think the Sha are quite done yet, and that the seventh Sha will be tied to Garrosh.
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90 Night Elf Mage
5540
03/20/2013 12:38 AMPosted by Veruu


The Sha are overrated garbage that got smacked down in a matter of months. The only reason they were able to get so far in the first place is because they had the element of surprise.

Add that a seventh Sha has never been confirmed, and Kosak has stated that the "Seven Burdens" came from a very early script of the story. Unless there's some hints that the Sha are still around in 5.3, I'd say their story is more or less finished. Garrosh can be messing with any number of things below Org to make himself a threat (Like the things already in RFC), and considering 5.2 is the end of the problems in Pandaria, I wouldn't be surprised if the Sha were done as well.


I don't quite understand your thinking here. I do agree with you on the fact that the Burning Legion is a bigger threat than the Sha, but tf the Sha are overrated because of how quickly they were dispatched then so were the other Old Gods. The Silithid and C'Tun were wiped out in one patch during Vanilla, and so was Yogg-Saron during Wrath. If anything, the only Old God that's legitimately a threat is N'Zoth since he's the only Old God to actually sunder Azeroth (Deathwing was just a pawn) and is probably still at large and/or working with the Naga.

This expansion is about both Pandaria and the faction conflict. Time needs to be devoted to both to tell their story, so it's no surprise if it comes up short. That being said, I still don't think the Sha are quite done yet, and that the seventh Sha will be tied to Garrosh.


Wrong, it was clearly stated in kasarang wilds it tooks us 3 months for domination point to come in.

Do you know how long it takes to travel from Lordaeron to Northrend? 3 months, just traveling to Lordaeron to quel'thalas takes about 4 weeks.

SO for all of us to get all the way to southern kalmidor would have expanded a time much more vast then 3 months.

Although the speed of airships are a lost faster then the speed of ships that travel by sea.
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100 Human Mage
17575
Do you know how long it takes to travel from Lordaeron to Northrend? 3 months


Arthas made the journey in only one month.
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90 Draenei Shaman
5800

I don't quite understand your thinking here. I do agree with you on the fact that the Burning Legion is a bigger threat than the Sha, but tf the Sha are overrated because of how quickly they were dispatched then so were the other Old Gods. The Silithid and C'Tun were wiped out in one patch during Vanilla, and so was Yogg-Saron during Wrath. If anything, the only Old God that's legitimately a threat is N'Zoth since he's the only Old God to actually sunder Azeroth (Deathwing was just a pawn) and is probably still at large and/or working with the Naga.

This expansion is about both Pandaria and the faction conflict. Time needs to be devoted to both to tell their story, so it's no surprise if it comes up short. That being said, I still don't think the Sha are quite done yet, and that the seventh Sha will be tied to Garrosh.


Wrong, it was clearly stated in kasarang wilds it tooks us 3 months for domination point to come in.

Do you know how long it takes to travel from Lordaeron to Northrend? 3 months, just traveling to Lordaeron to quel'thalas takes about 4 weeks.

SO for all of us to get all the way to southern kalmidor would have expanded a time much more vast then 3 months.

Although the speed of airships are a lost faster then the speed of ships that travel by sea.


So the threat of a monster is increased based on how fast you have to get to it, rather than how long it takes to defeat it? I don't mean to put words in your mouth but that's what it sounds like, and frankly it doesn't make sense.
Edited by Veruu on 3/20/2013 9:27 AM PDT
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90 Human Rogue
7765
I think the main issue I was arguing wasn't whether or not the Sha were dangerous, they're like fun sized Old Gods without their all encompassing mind powers. Still dangerous, but not the caliber we are used to.

The issue is that the Pandaren are a sheltered society that has no experience with war after the war for their independence won them freedom against the mogu slavers. Despite having a strong military winning them their freedom, they suddenly decide that having a large military will only bring suffering. They then decide that they only need a small police force to handle their problems while the rest live relatively carefree spoiled lives as craftsmen. Didn't that work out so well for the Pearlfin Jinyu?

The only reason they are able to live their lives without much concern for the Eldritch Abominations that exist in space and in the deep is because larger more militant nations are able to beat down these cosmic horrors as they crop up. Without these strong nations, the Pandaren would be enslaved (or worse) by the Old Gods or the Legion, because their ideologies fail to cope with the dangers in the Warcraft Universe. If all of Azeroth was like Pandaria, then it would simply have been another notch in the Legion's belt 10,000 years ago.

But apparently, no one ever explained this to the Pandaren, or perhaps that is because the Pandaren are such a poor people as a nation that there is really no point. This far into the expansion the local population of Pandaria seems to have been cut in half, at least. Between all the local deaths the Sha and Mantid have caused, compounded onto the casualties caused by the Mogu and Saurok, well, Id like to see what Blizzard's canon numbers of Pandaren alive before landfall in Jade Forest, and after Throne of Thunder. Because everywhere I look, dead pandas, dozens and dozens of dead pandas.

THATS how you spread a war is bad message. IF those deaths had been actually DIRECTLY caused by our war. Almost all of those locals died because they lacked a standing army under a unified government that could quickly respond to threats on villages and farmlands after raiders saw opportunities to strike. There is really only one example where the Faction War caused the deaths of Pandaren, and that was the Battle at Jade Serpent. If anyone had bothered to call out the factions for the Temple of the Jade Serpent where our actions cause the deaths of all but around 3 inside the temple, the locals might have some merit. But once again, its Pandaria, the locals do not care, because they dont seem to be capable of processing everything that is happening to them. But maybe that is part of their live and let live ideology idk I dont work for Blizzard.

Why is the Alliance working so hard to save this race's culture? Its not like Draenei who actually have millennia of experience with magic and the Light, or the Worgen who we kind of owe something to after they did help us when we asked in the First and Second War. The Pandaren don't have anything we would want. Well, they might have a brewery recipe that could make a dwarf salivate a river, but I dont think that constitutes devoting military research to preserve the ENTIRE culture.
Edited by Kenthil on 3/20/2013 11:57 AM PDT
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100 Troll Hunter
13645
The only reason they are able to live their lives without much concern for the Eldritch Abominations that exist in space and in the deep is because larger more militant nations are able to beat down these cosmic horrors as they crop up. Without these strong nations, the Pandaren would be enslaved (or worse) by the Old Gods or the Legion, because their ideologies fail to cope with the dangers in the Warcraft Universe. If all of Azeroth was like Pandaria, then it would simply have been another notch in the Legion's belt 10,000 years ago.

The reason they're able to live their lives is because their entire culture is based around keeping the Abominations at bay.

They feed of negative emotions - Everyone in Pandaria centers their life around having a good time. Or in the case of the Shado-Pan, feeling absolutely 0 emotion at all.

If the Horde and Alliance never arrived, the Sha wouldn't have become a threat.

If Azeroth was like Pandaria, the demons never would have been summoned in the first place.
Edited by Pyronaptor on 3/20/2013 12:00 PM PDT
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90 Human Rogue
7765
That works for SHA, not the Old Gods (whose mere proximity can drive even the most pious and disciplined minds to complete lunacy through methods we could never comprehend) or the Demonic Lords of the Legion.

The Old Gods likely know the planet inside and out what with being merged with it. Heck Pandaria was the home of Y'Shaarj and if the Old Gods reclaimed control of the planet one of the other gods (probably C'Thun or N'Zoth) would see that Y'Shaarj is no longer a threat and help themselves to Pandaria, the Mists be damned.

And if the Legion took over Kalimdor (no Kaldorei highborn would mean no sundering so the world would be all one supercontinent plus the Isle of Pandaria as I assume it was always an island) then the Eredar or Nathreziem would simply look over the whole of Azeroth and wonder wtf that big swirly spot blotting out the skies in the middle of the Seas was. They use their magics to simply get through the Mists because Demonic shenanigans (they travel the stars like its walking across the street so focusing all their attention to get through the mist is not a stretch of the imagination) and then its BYE BYE PANDALAND.

That is assuming that the entire planet doesn't burn away into a hellish landscape of fire and vacuum the second Sargaeras sets foot on it. Which according to canon happens when he sets foot on a planet.

The Pandaren really owe us everything. Having the good life for about 10,000 years.
Edited by Kenthil on 3/20/2013 12:08 PM PDT
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100 Troll Hunter
13645
That works for SHA, not the Old Gods (whose mere proximity can drive even the most pious and disciplined minds to complete lunacy through methods we could never comprehend) or the Demonic Lords of the Legion.

What's your point?

They never had to deal with Old Gods or the Legion.

And if the Legion took over Kalimdor (no Kaldorei highborn would mean no sundering so the world would be all one supercontinent plus the Isle of Pandaria as I assume it was always an island) then the Eredar or Nathreziem would simply look over the whole of Azeroth and wonder wtf that big swirly spot blotting out the skies in the middle of the Seas was. They use their magics to simply get through the Mists because Demonic shenanigans (they travel the stars like its walking across the street so focusing all their attention to get through the mist is not a stretch of the imagination) and then its BYE BYE PANDALAND.

If Azeroth were like Pandaria, the Highborne would have never existed because no one would be that selfish or malicious.

No Highborne means the Legion never notices Azeroth.

The Pandaren really owe us everything. Having the good life for about 10,000 years.

They don't owe us anything. Just because they're smarter than the rest of Azeroth doesn't mean they owe us anything.

By your logic, the Alliance owes the Orcs, living the good life while they live in the desert.
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90 Human Rogue
7765
What's your point?

They never had to deal with Old Gods or the Legion.


Then they shouldn't judge our way of doing things.

But I can't say it really matters at this point, like I said most Pandaren are dead now anyways or have joined up with a faction on the whole. So their 'culture' is likely going to fade away as they are assimilated into the factions lifestyle. They could just be a little less snobbish about it.


If Azeroth were like Pandaria, the Highborne would have never existed because no one would be that selfish or malicious.

No Highborne means the Legion never notices Azeroth.


The Legion hunts down worlds to invade constantly, that's what it does. Azeroth had a big magical beacon left behind by the titans that was essentially screaming out in the Nether. The Highborne made it scream even louder.

Eventually the Legion would have found Azeroth, as it had done with countless other worlds that did not have a screaming beacon on it.

And the second Sargearas sets foot on your planet, its GG as the planet is incinerated by his presence.

By your logic, the Alliance owes the Orcs, living the good life while they live in the desert.


Not the Alliance's fault the Horde consorted with demons and blew up their homeworld, then got beaten into a corner of the world that nobody wanted to live in.
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100 Troll Hunter
13645
Then they shouldn't judge our way of doing things.

But I can't say it really matters at this point, like I said most Pandaren are dead now anyways or have joined up with a faction on the whole. So their 'culture' is likely going to fade away as they are assimilated into the factions lifestyle. They could just be a little less snobbish about it.

But our way is wrong.

And they aren't dead or joining a faction. Where did you get that from?

The Legion hunts down worlds to invade constantly, that's what it does. Azeroth had a big magical beacon left behind by the titans that was essentially screaming out in the Nether. The Highborne made it scream even louder.

The Legion didn't know about Azeroth until the Highborne reached out to them.

Not the Alliance's fault the Horde consorted with demons and blew up their homeworld, then got beaten into a corner of the world that nobody wanted to live in.

Not the Pandaren's fault the Horde and Alliance are fighting a stupid war on their property.

Us going to Pandaria was a mistake, and Taran Zhu has every right to be pissed off at us.
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100 Human Paladin
10955
Shaohao brown cow? But I have never thought of it that way. I always felt the panderens were superior us in all aspect of life. War? They have martial arts. Party? Their brews are the best, even the dwarves admit as much. Moral compass? Only the panderen are truly selfless and just. Their codes being taught and intergerted into the Alliance was what I thought this expansion was about, am I wrong?
Edited by Phelios on 3/20/2013 12:33 PM PDT
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90 Human Rogue
7765
And they aren't dead or joining a faction. Where did you get that from?


From all the dead pandas and burned villages we see as we level in Pandaria. Also Kun'Lai Summit.

Not the Pandaren's fault the Horde and Alliance are fighting a stupid war on their property.

Us going to Pandaria was a mistake, and Taran Zhu has every right to be pissed off at us.


Actually the reason we are fighting is because even after the Alliance tries to turn a blind eye to the Horde they go and invade Ashenvale because they need lumber, they also squat on Alterac because all the local Alliance are dead so why not? The dwarves have no right to co-exist on land we rightfully mooched onto and must be purged. Also Forsaken, just Forsaken.

Really the Horde said "We are no longer the Dark Horde that tried to genocide all of Azeroth at the behest of our demonic masters. We shall now revere our war-leaders who swore allegiance to the Demonic Lords and will now begin to invade Alliance territory because you won't give it up when we make demands of you." Then the Alliance said "....." in Vanilla and "....." in BC and "What? NO!" in Wrath.

But rather than learn anything about us, Taran Zhu goes and accuses us of racism while the Orcs are kidnapping children "Hello? I do believe you have our Idiot Ball from Cataclysm Taran Zhu, and we would like it back before we actually start doing well for ourselves". Also when the first thing a new nation does when they make first contact is bring in a flying aircraft carrier and blow the f&$k out of an entire fleet, pissing them off is just a case of WAAAAAY too dumb to live.

Shaohao brown cow?


Yellow Weasel.......am.....am I doing it right? I didn't think so =(
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