[Suggestion] True priority queuing for LFR.

90 Dwarf Hunter
12535
I posted this in another thread, but I figured that it was more likely to get a serious look in it's own thread.

As others have pointed out (in a large number of threads), sitting in an hour long queue to pop into a run that has 2/3 bosses down so that you can then re-queue for another hour long wait in the hopes that your "priority" gets you into a fresh run is more than a little off-putting. I know that it doesn't make me very happy, especially when I get into another partially completed run and have to repeat the process, since I need something off of the first or second boss.

So, instead of just complaining about it, I'm going to offer a constructive suggestion that I feel is a good compromise between what we now have and what a lot of (mostly DPS players, due to the long queue times) players seem to want.

Is it possible, and I'm fairly sure that with some creative coding on Blizz's part it is, to implement a system that allows for priority queuing on top of priority for a fresh run? For example, I queue up and wait my hour (yes, it is usually an hour, give or take 15 minutes, on my server for dps without a tank or healer with them) to find myself in a partially completed run and I stick with the group to down the last boss. I would then get priority for a fresh run, as is the current system (even though is does seem to be missing the mark by a large margin since the release of ToT), and I would get placed close to the front of the overall queue for my role (behind others that were in the same situation, of course), behind the people that had already been waiting in queue more than a half an hour or so.

This would help to prevent people from having to sit in hour long queues multiple times for the same raid segment so that they can get a shot at the loot from the first boss or two of the instance. It would, potentially, make the initial queue a bit longer but I think that would be a fair trade for not having to sit in queue for another hour (or possibly two or three) to get into a second or third group.

Of course, there would have to be additional coding put in to verify that the people had not already downed every boss in the raid segment that week, to prevent people that were re-running the raid over and over for Valor (or whatever reason) from constantly bumping those that had not yet run it that week back in the queue. Which would prevent abuse of the system.
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90 Orc Shaman
13550
How do you know this isn't happening and how would you be able to tell if it was?
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90 Pandaren Hunter
6590
How do you know this isn't happening and how would you be able to tell if it was?
Because if it was I wouldn't have waited an hour and a half the first week ToT lfr opened only to get put on the last boss then forced to wait another hour and a half just to get a lfr on the first boss.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
12535
How do you know this isn't happening and how would you be able to tell if it was?


If it was happening, my queue times would not consistently be the same length (within acceptable deviation margins) whether I am queuing for the raid segment for the first time in the week or the third (after getting two partial runs).

So, if the coding is there to allow for a system like I described then it needs some work.
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100 Night Elf Druid
11135
What time do you queue? Why do you want so long? I wait 20 mins or less normally.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
6590
What time do you queue? Why do you want so long? I wait 20 mins or less normally.
Assuming you're queuing on that character, MSV and HOF generally have short queue times even as DPS. ToES and ToT is when it gets ridiculous for dps queues if you don't do them on reset day.
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90 Troll Priest
14015
Here is what I personally do, to do my small share toward helping others who are still in queue:

When I get into a partially completed raid, I finish it (even though it's frustrating).

Then, when I get back into a fresh run of that same raid to down the boss or two I didn't get the first time - I don't immediately drop out after I've got what I need. I stay and finish the run with the group (assuming we don't suddenly descend into a ridiculous fest of stupidity and wipes, but that's a whole different problem).

My thought is, that although it's not particularly important to me personally to stay and kill the last boss or two for a second time - I am saving some other dps in queue from getting sucked into a partially completed raid. Hopefully that dps will instead get the fresh run they would likely prefer.

I know, it's one person, one raid, one spot - not helpful to the overall issue unless a lot of people did this - and of course that isn't likely. Most people are only interested in what is convenient for themselves, and they are aggressively disinterested in the convenience or welfare of the anonymous others who comprise the rest of the playerbase.

But like so many other issues that are at times inconvenient for all of us - if each of us were willing to choose a little inconvenience to ourselves in the short run, we might actually solve the larger inconvenience to all of us in the long run.

Or we could just tell Blizzard to fix what we refuse to fix ourselves.

I refer you to the new LFR loot system for a living illustration of how that works out.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
12535
I actually like the new loot system better than the old. Sure, sometimes I go weeks without even seeing a piece of loot that I can use drop. But at least I'm not seeing the piece that I really want drop and get taken by someone already wearing it because they just want to be a jerk, or possibly want an extra to reforge differently for some other spec. I saw that constantly with the old system.

But, that's a topic for another thread.

I agree that, if people were to do like you suggest, things would help solve themselves for the most part. However, with the current internet culture of 'I do what I want!!' I do not see that as a possibility.

I, like you, stick the run through. Blizz has already fixed the issues that usually caused me to drop group in the past, when the vast majority of the group was pulling dismally low DPS, fail healing, or tanks with really bad gear that just wouldn't get kicked for whatever reason. Those situations made for a long series of wipes with no end in sight. The stacking buff for wiping on a boss makes it so that even severely under geared groups, or groups with people jumping in fire so they can AFK, will eventually get the boss down.

So, assuming that having Blizz fix the problem will result in another system that some people find unacceptable doesn't really nullify the argument for having them do it. A lot of the fixes that they have implemented over the years work great and nobody ever (with the exception of the Trolls) complains about them.
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MVP
100 Night Elf Priest
12305
It is apparent to me that there are some players who want a fresh run and some players who don't.

In that situation, I don't see the problem with letting people choose, because there isn't just one always superior choice.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
12535
It is apparent to me that there are some players who want a fresh run and some players who don't.

In that situation, I don't see the problem with letting people choose, because there isn't just one always superior choice.


I can completely agree that there is not "one always superior choice." However, as Blizz took away the ability to choose before joining due to it causing the issues that they pointed out in their post justifying the change, I don't see them giving the choice back.
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90 Dwarf Warlock
15670
Then, when I get back into a fresh run of that same raid to down the boss or two I didn't get the first time - I don't immediately drop out after I've got what I need. I stay and finish the run with the group (assuming we don't suddenly descend into a ridiculous fest of stupidity and wipes, but that's a whole different problem).

My thought is, that although it's not particularly important to me personally to stay and kill the last boss or two for a second time - I am saving some other dps in queue from getting sucked into a partially completed raid. Hopefully that dps will instead get the fresh run they would likely prefer.


I often do this as well, even on my tank/healers.

I *am* however annoyed with an hour queue for a raid, get in a partial run, then proceed to spend another hour to get in another one.

Or, on 5.2 release, doing LFR, downing Horridon, having the server restart, and then being put in a fresh run. Spent 3 hours in there on that run after one shotting the first two the day before. :/
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So, everyone else has to wait even longer because you got in a random that was already partially done? Doesn't quite seem fair.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
12535
So, everyone else has to wait even longer because you got in a random that was already partially done? Doesn't quite seem fair.


When you take into consideration that those other people would get the exact same priority queue when they get a partially completed run, it is perfectly fair.

Having to wait another hour, or more on some servers, to get to down the first bosses of a raid that you have already queued for one or more times because someone decided that they didn't want to finish their full run isn't exactly fair. But that's what Blizz has put into place by removing the option of not joining into a partially completed raid. I fully understand why Blizz did it, and I don't think that they were wrong in doing it. This is just a way to make the best of a bad situation. A 'more fair' way to implement the system that they have given us.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
12710
Players have some serious entitlement issues. You arent special. This isnt Disneyland where you can buy a fast pass. Everyone stands in the same line as everyone else. Sometimes when you get through the line you end up in the front seat and sometimes you end up in the back or somewhere in between. Just because you ended up in the back seat doesnt mean the next time you stand in line you have priority to get into the front seat. You just stand in line again like everyone else.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11680
Time to buy healer queues guys...my pockets are empty and in need of gold.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
12535
Players have some serious entitlement issues. You arent special. This isnt Disneyland where you can buy a fast pass. Everyone stands in the same line as everyone else. Sometimes when you get through the line you end up in the front seat and sometimes you end up in the back or somewhere in between. Just because you ended up in the back seat doesnt mean the next time you stand in line you have priority to get into the front seat. You just stand in line again like everyone else.


Your comparison is way off the mark there. Standing in line to ride the ride at Disneyland allows you to ride the WHOLE RIDE, no matter which seat you are in. That is not the case with LFR.

If people stood in line to ride the ride at Disneyland and then were picked up on a lift and put in a seat on that ride 2/3 of the way through the ride because some kid decided that he didn't want to finish the ride, and then told that if they wanted to ride the whole thing they had to stand in line again, they'd stop going to Disneyland. Especially if standing in line the second time did not GUARANTEE that they got to ride the whole ride this time.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
12710
Well I couldnt think of something that was partitioned like LFR at the time. Anyway how about this. You are in DC and there is a tour trolley that makes loops to the various museums. The official start of the loop is the Smithsonian. You get on at the Holocaust Museum. You ride around and get off the trolley to check out the Smithsonian. When you want to get back on the trolley you still have to stand in line like everyone else. You dont get priority just because you were on another part of the trolley ride before.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
12535
Well I couldnt think of something that was partitioned like LFR at the time. Anyway how about this. You are in DC and there is a tour trolley that makes loops to the various museums. The official start of the loop is the Smithsonian. You get on at the Holocaust Museum. You ride around and get off the trolley to check out the Smithsonian. When you want to get back on the trolley you still have to stand in line like everyone else. You dont get priority just because you were on another part of the trolley ride before.


Good try, but still off base. In your example, you CHOSE to get on the trolley at the Holocaust Museum. You didn't stand in line at the beginning of the trolley loop, the Smithsonian, and suddenly get ported to the Holocaust Museum with no choice in the matter (though that would be pretty cool, in and of itself), which is what happens with LFR.

Thanks for the bump, though.
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100 Human Mage
16540
The even more simple solution, that will incentivise staying in the run when you get called in midway is to allow drops from missed bosses on the last boss.

Say you get pulled in on the second boss, but really need a drop from the first, well, complete the run, and on the final boss you get an extra roll on gear from that first boss you missed.

Getting called in midway is no longer bad, now it's an ok thing, since you still get your chance at the loot drop from the earlier boss(es) you missed by sticking it out with the group.
Edited by Azrael on 3/21/2013 11:44 AM PDT
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