zandalari warbringer

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90 Draenei Shaman
11735
i'm not sure if this is the place for this thread, but this issue is getting ridiculous. i have been attempting to farm zandalari warbringers solo, and groups will continually find me soloing a warbringer and taunt him away to a location where he will evade attacks, he will then return to his original location and reset aggro, where the group has someone waiting to grab aggro immediately. this is obviously griefing and should be addressed. this has happened to me twice in dread wastes, where it is very easy for a tanking class or any class with a real taunt can simply pull a warbringer into the ocean until he evades.
90 Human Death Knight
10320
03/09/2013 05:06 AMPosted by Bokonan
this is obviously griefing


Being a jerk, or otherwise acting dishonorably, does not run afoul of any specific policy.

and should be addressed


Perhaps, but since these are game mechanics that you are having an issue with you will want to give feedback on such things on the General Discussion forum, as this would be an issue for the Developers to address.
90 Draenei Shaman
11735
this is off of wowhead, and this describes exactly what has happened to me twice and been attempted one other time

"After ticketing a GM about this, the GMs say that exploitation is a cause for banning people, and are willing to ban people for what they attempt to do. Dragging the mob into water in Dreadwastes for example. I had a group who tried 4 times to reset the mob, fortunatly, my group retained the tag and got the kill (no mount). However, aoeing around the mob is not an exploitation, so aoe as much as you need. The more in your group the better tag wise."

obviously this is hearsay, but makes sense.

"A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways."

this is from wikipedia, and i'm willing to bet that blizzard did not intend that zandalari warbringers should only be killed by the group with the most taunts. and that those groups with the most taunts should be able to steal tags from other players. so yes, this is griefing.

i will go ahead and post on general discussion as well, as this is getting very annoying.
Support Forum Agent
Usually, what you've described may be anti-social, even being a bit of a jerk move - but it's not against any rules.
Edited by Orlyia on 3/9/2013 9:17 AM PST
90 Draenei Shaman
11735
orlyia, maybe you are not aware of it, but the zandalari warbringers do not behave this way. they are not found on the isle of thunder. they are only allowing those with the tag to receive loot from it. if this resetting of the mob is not the definition of "griefing" then i don't know what is. these mechanics are literally allowing players to steal tags from other players who have waited patiently or were clever enough to get the tag in the first place.

edit: i will be a little bit more clear as to how this is currently working. let's say i tag a warbringer first, and i am kiting it around, slowly killing it. a group of 3-4 players comes by and sees me attacking this rare. in their group is someone who can easily pull aggro to taunt the mob away. it is taunted away to a place (say, the ocean off the coast of dread wastes) to where the mob is completely reset, he returns to his original location where they have another player in their group waiting, and resets his health and aggro table. the mob was never killed, the player who originally tagged the mob never died. the tag was stolen
Edited by Bokonan on 3/9/2013 9:12 AM PST
90 Human Death Knight
10320
03/09/2013 09:09 AMPosted by Bokonan
if this resetting of the mob is not the definition of "griefing" then i don't know what is.


"Griefing" is not even a word, so there is no definition, other than what players make it out to be :)

https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/harassment-policy

Forms of physical harassment in the game will not be addressed by the GM staff, but instead with a development resolution.


There can be extreme cases that may be looked into, and while your situation may certainly be frustrating and feel extreme, it really is just other players being jerks. Most interactions in the game, by-and-large, are left up to players to work out amongst themselves.

And those who are negatively impacted, such as yourself, should voice their concerns to the Devs so they can figure out a solution (if one is needed) that does not promote such behavior.
Edited by Maul on 3/9/2013 9:23 AM PST
Support Forum Agent
Ack, sorry, not enough coffee this morning - I edited my original response. I re-reviewed the patchnotes and I think I was thinking of world bosses, my sincere apologies.

But in any case - this is still not currently against any rules. By resetting the creature, that's a new fight and falls into the category of competition for resources/creatures.

Now, given these are near water, that doesn't mean you don't have a valid concern as this may be a bit easier pull this off than in other areas.

I'd recommend you write this up in General (it's not really a bug). I'd recommend focusing on the mechanic, instead of the 'griefing' aspect. WoW limits things like this through mechanics, primarily.
90 Draenei Shaman
11735
@ orylria: i understand what you mean by new competition for resources. the most applicable definition of this would be the fact that it is not against any rules to spam the ground with aoe as to tag an enemy when it first spawns.

however, exploiting game mechanics for unintended behavior is against the rules, and always has been. i am not here to start a fire or anything like that, but it is very hard to assume that these mechanics are intended mechanics.

issues with exploiting should at least be considered in the extreme. under current rules, two sets of groups of players could continually reset the mob for hours (days, even) until one group is forced to log off for personal reasons. i don't mean to say that there shouldn't be competition for resources either, but "intended behavior" is what i am going for. if this is to be taken to the extreme, and that no rules are being broken and this is intended behavior, then it would seem as though blizzard is condoning griefing, stealing tags, and harming the single player experience. i don't think this is what anyone, including blizzard intends.

@ Maul: i'm not here to argue the semantics of the English language, but griefing is a well-known term in the online gaming world. even blizzard recognizes "causing other players grief." also, you missed the second part of that quotation from the harrassment policy immediately following what you posted: "This does not include abusing game mechanics/exploiting or disrupting zones/areas to cause another player grief or distress." blizzard can tell me if i'm wrong, but this definitely seems like an exploit to me, and definitely falls under causing another player grief.

...

i know what being a jerk looks like in this game, and this certainly has several differences. basically what i'm saying is it's exploitative/causing grief and surely can't be taken to be intended game mechanics. i originally posted here as i thought this was a way to get in touch with devs, i was told that posting in general was the most effective way, so i did. my thead is on like page four, and hasn't really been getting any looks : (
90 Human Death Knight
10320
03/09/2013 10:06 AMPosted by Bokonan
but griefing is a well-known term in the online gaming world.


Yes, the gaming world tends to make its own terms and they often have different meanings to different players, which was my point. It is a nebulous word that really does not say anything in regards to the actual issue other than that you are displeased. And because this term is so loosely defined, there will most likely never be an account action called "griefing". To be quite frank, it is term that detracts from the core of the issue rather than adds to it.

you missed the second part of that quotation from the harrassment policy immediately following what you posted


No, I did not miss it, I left it out for a reason, to emphasize the first part, which is the part that applies to your situation - that a developmental solution needs to possibly implemented here :)
Edited by Maul on 3/9/2013 11:55 AM PST
90 Pandaren Hunter
16745
this is a good example of the direction blizzard is heading towards this game. They give trolls bait like galleon pre 5.2 and now Oondasta so they can troll the community.
They cater to the rude selfish players that have no respect for anyone.
They are constantly creating unfair competition that always put certain classes at an advantage.
They ignore simple solutions they have used before like in this case with zandalari warbringers, just make them faction tag.
I always think back to a time where I heard one of the Devs saying they are trying to make a "cool game".
If you want "cool" you have to avoid "uncool" things first and foremost. Uncool things like players stealing tags, groups camping and spamming AOEs, being upset you just camped for an hour just to be robbed by another player, or players spamming trade and general that oondasta is up when he is not.
89 Undead Mage
0
03/10/2013 08:10 AMPosted by Oilers
his is a good example of the direction blizzard is heading towards this game.


or players spamming trade and general that oondasta is up when he is not.


Im sure Blizzard would love to hear your suggestion on how to keep ppl from saying untruthful things in chat.

03/10/2013 08:10 AMPosted by Oilers
being upset you just camped for an hour just to be robbed by another player,


If you want to sit for an hour waiting for a spawn thats your choice, it doesnt make it 'yours' when it spawns.

03/10/2013 08:10 AMPosted by Oilers
Uncool things like players stealing tags,


First come first serve, he who tags it gets it.

03/10/2013 08:10 AMPosted by Oilers
They cater to the rude selfish players that have no respect for anyone.


*Citation needed.
90 Pandaren Hunter
16745
@krullstone

Im sure Blizzard would love to hear your suggestion on how to keep ppl from saying untruthful things in chat.
there is no way, that is why you cant have rare spawn wold bosses on crazy long timers

If you want to sit for an hour waiting for a spawn thats your choice, it doesnt make it 'yours' when it spawns
if someone is camping a rare and they have been there a long time its just courtesy not to compete with them for a tag. Not like anyone has an ounce of courtesy that plays this game. They should be faction tag plain and simple.

First come first serve, he who tags it gets it.
This is a contradiction of your statement

If you want to sit for an hour waiting for a spawn thats your choice, it doesnt make it 'yours' when it spawns.
89 Undead Mage
0
03/10/2013 08:59 AMPosted by Oilers
This is a contradiction of your statement


Not really, what I meant is who tags it gets it. Thats how it works. If your waiting an hour for a spawn your just sitting there, if you tag it you get it, if someone else does you dont.

03/10/2013 08:59 AMPosted by Oilers
if someone is camping a rare and they have been there a long time its just courtesy not to compete with them for a tag.


If you see it that way then thats fine. The rules are if you tag it its 'yours' not I was here first so its mine.
90 Human Death Knight
10320
Oilers, if you wish to give constructive feedback on this issue you would do well to find the OP's post on the General Discussion forum and support it (minus the snide commentary)

The CSF is not reviewed by anyone who can take such concerns to those who design the game.
Edited by Maul on 3/10/2013 9:16 AM PDT
89 Undead Mage
0
, Skjellyfetti if you wish to give constructive feedback on this issue you would do well to find the OP's post on the General Discussion forum and support it
89 Undead Mage
0
But in any case - this is still not currently against any rules. By resetting the creature, that's a new fight and falls into the category of competition for resources/creatures.

Now, given these are near water, that doesn't mean you don't have a valid concern as this may be a bit easier pull this off than in other areas.

I'd recommend you write this up in General (it's not really a bug). I'd recommend focusing on the mechanic, instead of the 'griefing' aspect. WoW limits things like this through mechanics, primarily.


This has been addressed, plz continue the discussiion where it can actually be put to use.
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