Resto Shaman - Severely Lacking in T15

90 Orc Shaman
HC
16485
first off, im glad that we are post capping this. Hopefully somebody will notice. I plan to open a ticket about this myself as there are a lot of good ideas in this thread.


The amount of post don't mean much, it's quality of post. Blizzard themselves have stated the kind of feedback they tend to "listen" to per-say. As long as it's kept positive and constructive based on personal feedback they will read it. That's why it may even be best if people post their personal logs instead of linking raidbots, show Blizzard the problems you are facing and never act as if your numbers are better than theirs.

So far this thread has been good, as long as it doesn't turn into how some of the others have they will read it with an open mind.
90 Draenei Shaman
7640
I even tweeted GC and asked him if they were going to atleast look at our thread if they haven't
90 Orc Shaman
HC
16485
I even tweeted GC and asked him if they were going to atleast look at our thread if they haven't


I'm pretty sure(99.9%) they've viewed the threads here about shamans, doubt they'll want to comment though. Maybe in the next round of hotfixes we'll see =].
Edited by Sensations on 3/17/2013 12:37 AM PDT
90 Draenei Shaman
12770
For what a casual filth scrublord's opinion is worth, I also hope people post their logs here, or in Sensations' resto shaman post farther down this forum, or in some other "post your shaman logs here"-specific thread yet to come.

I may be a casual scrublord, but I'm a forum junky, and I've read plenty of Blue posts & Blue blogs about what they are most interested in seeing when one class "claims disparity".

Note that as Sensations mentions, a lack of Blue presence in this thread or on the subject of resto shaman in general is no indication that the devs aren't reading what we're posting. They don't spend their time participating in the forums any more than they need to, and class uproar does not constitute requirement for them to do so (as their job is to work on the game, not do PR stuff/engage in community discussion).
90 Dwarf Priest
13265
Disc is doing nothing but Atonement spam in 5.2 (and Spirit Shell I guess when needed). We don't even worry about spread groups.

Bumping for Resto Shaman buffs.
90 Goblin Shaman
10345
come check out my tortos log bliz, where i get outhealed by a dk tank as the highest ilvl healer in the raid.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/240gecoohmj4zd54/sum/healingDone/?s=3249&e=3673

im reasonably sure if i sniped enough heals inbetween i could've beat the dk. I stand by this!

Did I mention I'm almost always in the top 3 in my raid? :/

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/br348izdym68mmnk/sum/healingDone/?s=10718&e=11199

heres my most recent 25m "progression" (Ji-Kun normal) log. Notice that due to gear I am able to literally just spam healing surge as necessary and get carried by setting up our teams raid CDs and putting mine first (gg 35% healing tide). Also a very weird fight to parse as half the raiders may or may not be in range at any given time. Still though, in this fight, we catered our strategy to stacking for the 2 shamans and even still our throughput is abysmal outside our raid CDs. Our poor other shaman is dead last (getting owned by platform healing) and last tier he was doing quite well. Now our DK looks better >.>

horridon:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/g1mlwr3y2uuj9fgq/sum/healingDone/?s=4102&e=4742

council:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/g1mlwr3y2uuj9fgq/sum/healingDone/?s=6215&e=6693

I'm not saying these logs are great reports or anything, but they are what they are. I'm almost embaressed to link parses where I do less healing than the DK >.>

some of it is maybe role and the approach to specific encounters (like council where I am focused on interrupting, cc'ing loa's and healing a small group) but tortos there is no excuse. I was trying my best to keep tanks and/or the raid alive. I could do neither. Hope it helps :(
90 Night Elf Druid
15480
Personal logs are really not worth looking at imo. And really neither is wol. It would be foolish to believe that blizzard does not have a much more acccurate database the includes the relevant data in house. It's their game, they are probably as aware of the situation without any posts at all.

We'll see how it shakes out. I just hope not to be revamped because i love the class and don't see it as that far off. Few tweeks here and there and we are right on par.
Edited by Sadiemay on 3/17/2013 7:05 AM PDT
90 Orc Shaman
16280
Personal logs are really not worth looking at imo. And really neither is wol. It would be foolish to believe that blizzard does not have a much more acccurate database the includes the relevant data in house. It's their game, they are probably as aware of the sitation without any posts at all.

We'll see how it shakes out. I just hope not to be revamped because i love the class and don't see it as that far off. Few tweeks here and there and we are right on par.


I agree, but until they let us comb through those in house logs, our personal logs are our best way to prove that we are falling farther and farther behind.

Blizz is always saying that they want numbers and not just personal experiences. We've always given them that and much more. I remember in t12, the sheer amount of personal and WoLs we had posted across several forum threads. There were several posts with dozens of excellent suggestions on how to fix us without making us OP. Despite all the logs, all the suggestions, all the math, all the personal experiences, all the emotional pleas, they told us we were fine and to essentially l2p.

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm attacking or arguing with you. That's not my intention at all. I'm just frustrated. I don't want to be my guild's CD flinging mana battery. I want to feel like I'm contributing more than my totems to the success of my raid. I've already spoken to an officer in my guild, and while he assures me that I won't be sat, I fear that I might have to be. Unless we're fixed or someone finds the magic formula of stats that make us not so crappy, I'm probably going to have to take it upon myself to warm the bench. I want them to succeed, even if it's without me.
90 Night Elf Druid
15480
03/17/2013 04:53 AMPosted by Songs
I hope it doesn't sound like I'm attacking or arguing with you.


No offense taken at all. It is good that people are passionate about the class they play. I know i am.

My thing with personal logs is that what does it really tell anyone? That you are bad or good, or your co-healers are better or worse, your strat is terrible? It needs to be a large sample for them to root out the outlyers and make a reasonable assumption of where things are.
90 Pandaren Shaman
0
Remove GCD from unleash elements ( also maybe give it a tidal waves type effect, reducing the cast time of your next healing rain by a ton )

Possibly make healing rain more useful when there are less than 6 players in it? something like making healing stream more powerful, or giving each heal a new ability. I don't even know.. maybe a chain heal buff is all we need.
Edited by Badset on 3/17/2013 8:08 AM PDT
90 Orc Shaman
HC
16485
Personal logs are really not worth looking at imo. And really neither is wol. It would be foolish to believe that blizzard does not have a much more acccurate database the includes the relevant data in house. It's their game, they are probably as aware of the situation without any posts at all.

We'll see how it shakes out. I just hope not to be revamped because i love the class and don't see it as that far off. Few tweeks here and there and we are right on par.


Personal logs provide context, Blizzard knows the community is going to link either them or general compiled log stats like Raidbots. They have their own internal numbers, but personal logs provide a personal experience for different types of players at different levels of play with different raid compositions, they may not be worth looking at to you or I, but that doesn't mean they're not worth looking at to Blizzard which is why they ask for them.

Considering the amount of times people link raidbots and the amount of times Blizzard has given their response on raidbots and how it's used as well as the type of feedback they look for, it's pretty obvious :p. But I do agree, Shamans could have made 0 post and the outcome may well be same but I also wouldn't underestimate what such feedback can provide.
Edited by Sensations on 3/17/2013 8:12 AM PDT
90 Blood Elf Mage
17275
03/17/2013 03:33 AMPosted by Sadiemay
It would be foolish to believe that blizzard does not have a much more acccurate database the includes the relevant data in house.


I would respectfully argue it is foolish to believe they have a secret, more accurate database than what is publicly available.

The developers have been saying things like "we aren't seeing that" and "we like where shaman heals are currently" for, what, a minimum of three years now? They said it all through the cataclysm beta testing. They said it for months and months after cataclysm was released, and they actually said it just days before suddenly buffing purification by 15%.
90 Draenei Shaman
0
I remember in t12, the sheer amount of personal and WoLs we had posted across several forum threads. There were several posts with dozens of excellent suggestions on how to fix us without making us OP. Despite all the logs, all the suggestions, all the math, all the personal experiences, all the emotional pleas, they told us we were fine and to essentially l2p.


I remember this too, and we weren't essentially told to L2P we were outright told that, and called noobs, and told to shut up. We were also told that nothing we could provide was worth anything and that blizzard would only accept logs made with their in house tools and that there was no chance we could get those tools to provide the logs they wanted. It did end with chain heal gaining 2.5 yards to its jump range but the already small shaman community lost a lot of great people because of that.

I wish luck to my fellow shaman and hope everything works out, but I'm not going to believe anything will change. Nothing was changed at the end of BC going into wotlk, nothing was changed at the end of wotlk going into cata, nothing was changed at the end of cata going into MoP, and though we may get bandaid fixes, nothing will change at the end of MoP going into the future.
90 Goblin Shaman
9560
they want to make the shaman a utility toon then give use a wide array of buff totums that stack with what the other classes bring (mastery, spell haste, ...) An off the wall idea is let mastery also increase the number of times Ancesteral Awakeing procs, it is a shaman only ability that now is a sliver of our healing. How about a glyph that weaken HR but allow it to be tagged to a player and move as he moves allowing it to follow a tank and dps as thay constantly move.
Edited by Moozog on 3/17/2013 12:10 PM PDT
90 Pandaren Monk
13265
So is this going to be the first Resto Shaman-related post to hit cap ever on the Healing Forums? Should I notify Guinness and get my camera?

It would be foolish to believe that blizzard does not have a much more acccurate database the includes the relevant data in house.


I would respectfully argue it is foolish to believe they have a secret, more accurate database than what is publicly available.

The developers have been saying things like "we aren't seeing that" and "we like where shaman heals are currently" for, what, a minimum of three years now? They said it all through the cataclysm beta testing. They said it for months and months after cataclysm was released, and they actually said it just days before suddenly buffing purification by 15%.


Kinda yea. It's almost like an appeal to authority to me. If we use the best data we have available to us in addition to our personal accounts and logs, and someone says we are wrong but doesn't provide their own data to back up their assertions, that's basically a fallacy. Many in this thread are using the best data they have available in the best way they know how and are constantly looking for new data to either reaffirm themselves or counter their own data. That is what they are supposed to do when they feel there's a problem, and thus they expect the same amount of effort to go into a counter-argument, and might feel slighted when that is not the case.

Now, I don't expect Blizzard to "counter" our arguments with their specific logs and data, because in general that would be a huge undertaking and would need to be updated after every patch and hotfix and I just think it would be a mess. If they directly address these complaints and say "we aren't seeing that", there's no reason to assume they are outright lying (you have to watch their wordplay though).

However, because of that, it's also usually a bad idea to say "you are fine" or something, and that's it (doing/saying nothing for an extended period is also taken as "you are fine" or "the situation doesn't need addressed until next patch" or something). I know Blizzard doesn't like to hear from people that they "feel ignored", but in certain situations (like this particular one) I think that complaint is justified.

No one should expect any company to be like "Oh we are so terrible, everything you said about us is true *cry in corner*" but there's a grey area between that and genuinely feeling/seeing a lack of effort at all on Blizzard's part. I can't speak for everyone, but it seems like a lot of players really do expect better from them, or at least a real attempt to fix these discrepancies, mend their mistakes and learn from them. Kinda like a parent who sees their A honor student bring home a D on a test. You don't hate them for it, but you are certainly disappointed and expect the situation to improve *quickly* when you know they are definitely capable of better, right?

We are not really seeing the "learn from your mistakes" part, or the "work on it" part, or anything, really, and Blizzard aren't children that should need to be scolded. At the end of the day, Resto Shaman really don't need public groveling, just something done about it that actually matters in a timely fashion. This raid's gonna be around a while.
Edited by Thaimaishu on 3/17/2013 2:49 PM PDT
90 Draenei Shaman
7640
Chain heal glyph baseline, make it instant cast or lower the base cast time to be more in tune with Healing Surge. Remove the degradation of healing from chain heal hops. Give us the front end of Riptide using the glyph.
90 Pandaren Shaman
13745
I spoke to a gm today and he said a gm will eventually get to this topic.
90 Goblin Shaman
21295
The better your other healers are the worse your resto shaman will look. If your other healers aren't so great, your resto shaman will look pretty darn good. And yes I completely agree shaman are lacking especially after checking out where we are on raidbots (which is rock bottom). I wish we could get some type of absorbs.
90 Troll Shaman
13300
so we are officially 2/12! and I have to say the whole shaman have good utility thing is BS.

spirit link tot is hard to use because of how it is placed, and on the fights its useful I guess bliz decided it shouldn't work at all this tier (because of DS?). honestly I miss our cleansing tot, how was it any worse then mass dispel or the monk healing/dispelling CD? I'd have killed for something like that on horridon 10 man.

instead I'm stuck on tank healing cuz shaman raid healing is to slow and unreliable, I feel like a pally in vanilla or BC.

Most the time I'm forced to pop people up individually with greater healing wave on spread fights.

I really don't want a huge shaman rework. I just want back some of the spells that made our class awesome to be viable again.

chain heal, cleansing tot[or a new variation]...

sentry tot =3
Edited by Chaac on 3/17/2013 8:15 PM PDT
90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
so we are officially 2/12! and I have to say the whole shaman have good utility thing is BS.

spirit link tot is hard to use because of how it is placed, and on the fights its useful I guess bliz decided it shouldn't work at all this tier (because of DS?). honestly I miss our cleansing tot, how was it any worse then mass dispel or the monk healing/dispelling CD? I'd have killed for something like that on horridon 10 man.

instead I'm stuck on tank healing cuz shaman raid healing is to slow and unreliable, I feel like a pally in vanilla or BC.

Most the time I'm forced to pop people up individually with greater healing wave on spread fights.

I really don't want a huge shaman rework. I just want back some of the spells that made our class awesome to be viable again.

chain heal, cleansing tot[or a new variation]...

sentry tot =3

Isn't Tidal Waves+HS better than GHW?
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