Resto Shaman - Severely Lacking in T15

90 Draenei Shaman
8960
So far I have healed up to Primordius in both a 10 and 25 man raid group. Our guild tends to make an off-night 10m raid. I will try to lay out my experience with each of these fights and what I think is alright and what is missing from each one in terms of my spells and abilities, not necessarily output.

Jin'rokh the Breaker(25m): Because of the + to healing done by standing in puddles, this actually makes healing rain and to some extent chain heal very good on this fight, I know it is regarded as the only fight we're decent at, but it also seems like the other healers can do better than us even in this ideal stacking fight. What's good about the fight is that it doesn't reveal any glaring issues about shamans, we have the necessary tools to deal with this kind of damage.

Horridon(25m): Because of the way the damage occurs, very random and not exactly a massive amount of damage to the entire raid, I would say that we have decent spells to deal with this kind of damage as well, good cds, and overall this fight isn't quite so horrible as it might first seem for rshammy. Although I have to emphasize again that it seems like other classes have much better ways of dealing with that kind of random raid damage on 6 or so people at at time.

Council(25m): This is where things go very wrong, healing rain can be placed on the melee for some healing, but typically the raid is moving and dodging quicksand along with a bunch of other mechanics its difficult to get that to work on anyone. So during damage phases where there isn't a significant amount of damage going out, we are left with GHW, or HS and riptide, chain heal flat out does not work here, even in a 25. Big point here is we do not have a filler spell to use during the parts without damage from things like sandstorm etc. All other healing classes have filler spells to keep the raid going.

Tortos(25m): If we stagger our cds with each quake that he does, we do have enough cds to spread around to do a decent amount of healing, and in general this fight is pretty bad for any healer classes that don't have many instant cast spells, so during non-quake phases shamans are pretty lackluster, during the quakes however, if perfectly timed then we can claw our way back with perfect cd use. So again, feel like we are missing a good instant cast aoe healing spell (not exactly a filler spell).

Megaera(25m&10m): This fight was significantly worse in 10 than in 25. When I did this in a 10m group, I barely did more healing than the tank, during the grouped up rampage phases, a majority of the damage was just absorbed, leaving mastery completely useless. In addition it just didn't seem like I could do anywhere near the burst healing of a hpally, even though shamans are supposed to be reactive burst healers, overall not sure what can be done to improve 10m Megaera for shamans other than to just not have a hpally or disc priest, or ask if they wouldn't mind saving mana and letting the shaman heal during rampages, because I'm 100% we can. In 25m the problem was less apparent as there was enough raid damage to make spells like Ascendance and HTT worthwhile to cast.

Ji-Kun(25m): IF you are lucky enough, ask your RL for nests #3,4,8 or 9, these will line up perfectly with shaman cds, and nests are really fun to heal anyway. This fight just felt like the mechanics were fun enough, and I was in charge of and soley responsible for keeping my group alive that I didn't mind at all the spread out nature of this fight. That being said, I still felt like shamans were lacking a filler spell to cast when we have no cds available; chain heal comes to mind on this fight.

Durumu(10m): This fight really emphasizes the clutch nature of shaman healers. During the maze phase of this fight, Ive found SLT along with ascendance has saved 3 or 4 people when they took a misstep into an eyesore, however if everything goes perfectly there really isn't too much to heal. This fight matches up very well with 3min cds, so overall not a terrible experience. However again it just seemed like during the times when I didn't have a cd available it was just HST ticking away, chain heal comes to mind that it could really be a good filler spell if only it was not the worst spell in the game. Light of dawn is something that I am truly envious of.

Primordius(10m): I've only had 2 attempts on this boss, but its pretty much as bad if not worse than Megaera, lots of movement, no stacks and just trying to force myself to use chain heal to absolutely no effect, it might jump to 1 or 2 other people but that is about it. On the other hand Light of Dawn was just hitting everybody and stacking IH on the whole raid. I just don't get why CH is so restrictive and yet spells like light of dawn exist in the same frame. I'm not at all asking for nerfs to that, but please just buff CH to at least be on par with a spell like that!

http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/49618/
90 Draenei Shaman
8960
In regards to my post above, I'm not saying that I was holding my group back (I certainly hope not), maybe for Megeara 10m and Primoridus 10m, but it was just extremely difficult to stay anywhere near the performance of the other healers, usually this involves absolutely perfect timing on cds, a missused or unused cd is pretty much going to land me at the bottom of healing done, which isn't necessarily cause for immediate concern, but there just isn't any way I can recover from making what I'd consider to be on any other healer a more trivial mistake. Cd's make or break a shaman especially in T15 and they just aren't rewarding enough even with perfect timing. Putting this much effort into a playstyle to remain only viable in a raid group is frustrating at best. Rshammy just have a very poorly designed aoe healing toolkit, its been said probably on every single page of this forum post multiple times but its a fundamental tool that we are lacking along with output and generally a very clutch mastery that makes us either do ok or absolutely terrible in raid. A lot of the times when our mastery does shine its because something has gone terribly wrong anyway.

In short not saying shamans can't be viable, but it is very difficult to be.
91 Pandaren Shaman
10025
...a missused or unused cd is pretty much going to land me at the bottom of healing done, which isn't necessarily cause for immediate concern, but there just isn't any way I can recover from making what I'd consider to be on any other healer a more trivial mistake. Cd's make or break a shaman especially in T15 and they just aren't rewarding enough even with perfect timing.


I was going to post almost exactly this. Fortunately someone else saved me the typing. It seems like other healers are balanced around their base toolkits; Resto Shaman are balanced around using EVERY CD we have as often as possible.

And if I had a personal wishlist:

- Obviously CH needs to be adjusted in some way, it's terrible and only situationally useful. Removing the per-jump penalty seems like a good start; it feels really antiquated compared to the other group heals nowadays. I know Blizz doesn't want us to simply spam CH, but it's also hard to believe they want us to ignore such a signature spell entirely.

- HR should have no cooldown and should be instant cast, but should only allow one puddle to be up at a time. If we want to use extra mana moving it around we should be permitted to do so, just as a druid can choose to move their lifebloom around as much as they want, at the cost of mana of course. HR is such an essential part of our toolkit, and that's obviously the way they want it, so it needs to be more flexible. No other healer's most important tool is limited the way ours is, or so easily rendered useless by movement, etc. Perhaps this is because when they designed the spell, they didn't realize it would end up being 35% of our healing. Now that it is, those constraints should be adjusted or removed. The cast time, to me, has always seemed really silly and almost cruel. This change alone would fix a lot of the problems I encounter in raid.

- I don't know if this bothers everyone as much as it bothers me, but I would love it if they went back to the old HR mana cost and buffed the throughput instead. I hate having to always cast UE before HR; too much setup time, clunky CD interaction, boring play. It would be nice to be able to use UE on something else for a change. Instead, I just think of HR as having a 3 second cast time, unless I'm dealing with really minimal damage. I'd vastly prefer just to pay more for it all the time and get the throughput I need.

I actually like everything else about playing a resto shaman. Even the CD thing is fun, as stressful as it can sometimes be to remember to use everything. The nice part of being cooldown-based is that after a wipe, I can almost always think of some other stop I could have pulled out to get better, and that's what I do the next time. Most other healers don't really have that ability.

Lastly, I'm not a fan of the idea of HR following us or anyone else around - I'd rather be able to recast it to move it. I don't want some dps carrying it off someplace useless, and I don't want to have to stand where I need healing.
Edited by Taeus on 3/19/2013 12:10 PM PDT
90 Troll Shaman
17270
I kinda hated the direction of the "cheaper" healing rain too. But mainly because it just made it that much better to use in terms of HPM, and it makes the alternative (spread capable) single target healing relatively worse.

If anything unleashed should increase the radius on Healing Rain, being an optional power-up for the spell, that doesn't buff perfectly stacked healing, but makes spread more livable.

Reducing the cast time on HR to 1-1.5 sec would be nice too for Lei Shen and Durumu maze. I have a feeling that due to the wind mechanics I might have to stack 30% buffed haste just to land the heal on heroic without being swept off.

I dunno. Spam riptide needs to be viable for AoE healing while spread, and healing in general during heavy movement. Spam CH in ideal situations needs to demolish HW in HPS instead of barely edging it out, while being half as efficient and a slower cast.
85 Gnome Priest
6840
03/19/2013 01:57 PMPosted by Pitkanen
Spam riptide needs to be viable for AoE healing while spread,


I don't really want to be a Druid though.

CH just needs to be fixed, and there have been some good suggestions in here. It's all pretty damn annoying, because we've been singing the same song about our complete fail at spread healing for years now. My last numbers for ToT healing had GHW, HST, and HTT as my top three heals for the night, in a freaking 25 man raid. It's just stupid at this point.
100 Troll Shaman
10975


If anything unleashed should increase the radius on Healing Rain, being an optional power-up for the spell, that doesn't buff perfectly stacked healing, but makes spread more livable.



This is kinda a fun idea. I actually like the idea of unleashed elements have a more unique effect on our heals instead of a boring % buff.

Obviously would take a long rework but what if using Unleashed elements with chain heal increase its jump range to 40yrds?

or unleashed before GWH turned its theoretical healing into a HOT?

or unleash before Riptide made it splash heal....etc etc etc XD certainly would make for some fun theoretical work.
90 Draenei Shaman
14705
03/19/2013 11:48 AMPosted by Taeus
I hate having to always cast UE before HR; too much setup time, clunky CD interaction, boring play. It would be nice to be able to use UE on something else for a change.


While I love the effect that UE->HR has, I'll have to agree with this. I find that it has the potential to severely limit our output, since effective AoE healing requires that you get the HR down right as the damage starts to hit, rather than waiting until everyone's getting nuked (at which point you are officially behind). With boss timers and cast bars, this is normally not a huge problem, but it becomes really awful when boss timers are inaccurate or mere cooldown timers and you cannot properly time HR placement. UE->HR too soon and guess what, you just wasted a 15 second cooldown, mana, a bunch of healing, and you're not going to be properly prepared for the incoming burst of damage. UE->HR too late and now you're behind on healing and not doing your job. Heroic Feng and Arcane Velocity comes to mind...

It's not a huge thing, but it's something that has always irked me a bit.
90 Pandaren Shaman
13745
no blue post yet, what figures.
100 Troll Shaman
10975
well hopefully next patch...
90 Human Mage
0
(sorry if this posts twice for some reason the post wouldn't delete)
I had an idea today since shaman are having some problems with being strong competitive healers. They have good numbers, but the worst mp5 and mana efficiency at least from what I'm hearing. The idea I had was this. Chain heal has always been a signature heal for shaman. Chain heal costs quite a bit of mana and doesn't really have the potency it used to.

The 25% increase you get when you heal a target with chain heal affected by riptide is awesome, why not make that 25% heal carry through to the other targets healed as well? That would 1 increase healing (yes overhealing too), also would increase the effectiveness of chain heal, and make riptide even more useful. Just a thought, and sadly healing rain is really only mana efficient in 25's, I'm not saying flat our reduce the mana cost, but I would suggest increasing the healing when less people stand in it, so 10 man it becomes at least a little more viable. Granted in 25 man shaman can really do a ton of healing with Ascendance and healing tide totem. No complaints there, but just a few thoughts to consider.

The idea for healing rain would be to decrease diminishing returns when you have less than... oh idk 10 people in it, but say once the 11th person stands in it, the healing is reduce by... 10-20%? I don't shaman heal this xpac, but posting ideas I see could be useful. (also I apologize for using this forum, if you guys see a good one to post on, I would gladly move it there.)

Edit: I had actually posted this exact same thing a few days ago under another toon name, and on another forum and it didn't really go anywhere, hopefully this small idea could spark some more conversation and maybe possible changes.
90 Pandaren Shaman
13745
(sorry if this posts twice for some reason the post wouldn't delete)
I had an idea today since shaman are having some problems with being strong competitive healers. They have good numbers, but the worst mp5 and mana efficiency at least from what I'm hearing. The idea I had was this. Chain heal has always been a signature heal for shaman. Chain heal costs quite a bit of mana and doesn't really have the potency it used to.

The 25% increase you get when you heal a target with chain heal affected by riptide is awesome, why not make that 25% heal carry through to the other targets healed as well? That would 1 increase healing (yes overhealing too), also would increase the effectiveness of chain heal, and make riptide even more useful. Just a thought, and sadly healing rain is really only mana efficient in 25's, I'm not saying flat our reduce the mana cost, but I would suggest increasing the healing when less people stand in it, so 10 man it becomes at least a little more viable. Granted in 25 man shaman can really do a ton of healing with Ascendance and healing tide totem. No complaints there, but just a few thoughts to consider.

The idea for healing rain would be to decrease diminishing returns when you have less than... oh idk 10 people in it, but say once the 11th person stands in it, the healing is reduce by... 10-20%? I don't shaman heal this xpac, but posting ideas I see could be useful. (also I apologize for using this forum, if you guys see a good one to post on, I would gladly move it there.)

Edit: I had actually posted this exact same thing a few days ago under another toon name, and on another forum and it didn't really go anywhere, hopefully this small idea could spark some more conversation and maybe possible changes.

i Disagree with most of what you said, we often have mana problems Our hps is crap compared to other healers, if a 11th person stands in healing rain, your considering healing rain does 10-20% Less Healing? Aren't we trying to buff the class instead of nerf? You cant just assign people to stand in healing rain that's stupid.
90 Goblin Shaman
10345
03/19/2013 04:00 PMPosted by Leucetius
The 25% increase you get when you heal a target with chain heal affected by riptide is awesome, why not make that 25% heal carry through to the other targets healed as well? That would 1 increase healing (yes overhealing too), also would increase the effectiveness of chain heal, and make riptide even more useful.


it already does this. Chain heal is calculated off the first "jump" and any bonus healing that target receives is transfered throughout all of the jumps. RT buff, ES or any self "healing received" buffs. Its been this way for a long time.

Just a thought, and sadly healing rain is really only mana efficient in 25's


not true, healing rain is a better HPM spell if as few as 3 targets are in it than pretty much every other spell we have.

but I would suggest increasing the healing when less people stand in it


this already happens... the spell "caps" at I believe 5 or 6 targets (offhand without looking it up), and anything beyond that is just split evenly among the targets present.

oh idk 10 people in it, but say once the 11th person stands in it, the healing is reduce by... 10-20%? I don't shaman heal this xpac


Shamans dont need a 10-20% nerf, we need a 20%+ buff, and we need it to effect a spell that we can use when people are OUTSIDE healing rain. Its already pretty limiting when HR + ELW (off HR) + HTT + Ascendance + HST (all CDs and HR) is as much as 70-80% of your throughput on fights where stacking is optimal. This tier on a solid stack fight it isn't uncommon for HR to be 35-40% of your healing. We would like to do more than drop HR on cd, use RT, use HST on CD and pop 3 min CDs when they are up... and realistically right now thats all we are good at... inbetween that about all we can do is snipe some tank heals or heal the mage that stands in puddles of bad.
90 Draenei Shaman
7640
The only two real solutions available to us without a major revamp are increased SP coefficients for Chain Heal, Increased duration for HST, and maybe a buff to the RT glyph but as someone stated, if I wanted to be a druid I would've rerolled. A buff to purification isn't going to change much imo as we're still going to be fairly weak at single target healing reguardless because we'll still be snipe healing, HST on cd, and using our cool downs to be able to be anywhere near effective. Increasing the range on CH doesn't help us when people are moving around in random directions and having to spread out from each other.
100 Draenei Shaman
12725
Nothing to say about it. Shamans are virtually unusable in 10 mans outside of a few specific fights. We are brought for mana tide and some decent burst healing with out cooldowns. I'm not having fun playing my shaman and will probably bench her. Thanks for nothing Blizzard and thanks for not taking a notice.
90 Troll Shaman
5350
We have two resto shamans in our guild and we were pretty solid in t14. Now that were on heroics in t15 I'm forced to constantly sit one of us to meet throughput req's on fights and having recruits raid who easily put out better numbers just to down content. I recall when we were also low for most of Cata and this seems much worse now than it ever was back than.

I personally think the mechanics of resto are very indepth and interesting with many ways to squeeze out a bit more hps with better play. An example of this is being able to prehot the raid, get an ele down, and drop a UE healing rain down before popping Ascendance to maximize this cooldown. Things like this are not always easy to time correctly and keep the class very fun. I would not like to see any change to mechanics instead just buff our scaling.

I would suggest that we need a at least 10-15% buff atm just to get us close to other healers, and I would focus majority these buffs on riptide, ghw, hs, el and hw. Unless your prefer us to skyrocket over other healers on fully grouped fights, which would leave us as a very niche healer(bad on spread out fights, the best on grouped fights) which is also fine with me.
Edited by Vlyxnol on 3/19/2013 6:56 PM PDT
90 Draenei Shaman
8960
Has anyone that said they sent a tweet to GC or Blizzard gotten a response back? I sent a tweet to GC 9 hrs ago, and no response.

"Is there anything being done to look at restoration shaman PVE raid perfomance? It just seems like we are missing a spread out heal spell."
90 Pandaren Shaman
5735
The plus 30% of healing rain with UE should be baseline and instead of giving 30% healing, make UE a modifier to healing rain, like hurricane becomes astral storm in lunar phase, healing rain could be like "Healing shower" or w/e, healing the most injured party members in some way. the healing rain has to be stronger than "healing shower" when stacked but worse when spread.

Clearcasting would be a nice tooltip to us, could proc from riptide. this will add space to cast some free HS.
Edited by Imbalanced on 3/19/2013 7:00 PM PDT
90 Draenei Shaman
7640
IMHO I think that a moderate buff to single target heals or Tidal Waves would be great, chain heal needs completely reworked, it is literally garbage even under perfect conditions its too slow of a cast and doesn't pack enough punch, I'd like to see the cool down on riptide be reduced in half, that would go along way to start and wouldn't make it too strong.

@Jan - I tweeted him a few days ago and no response :( if blizzard doesn't fix resto with the next patch I'm rerolling to holy priest
Edited by Shammyjake on 3/19/2013 7:03 PM PDT
90 Troll Shaman
0
Blizz can nerf the suicide dagger but not respond to a forum post that needs some love. GG blizz
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