Resto Shaman - Severely Lacking in T15

90 Pandaren Monk
13165
03/12/2013 12:19 PMPosted by Tiriel


4-5 years ago, shaman forums, anger still lingers.


My rage from Firelands will never be extinguished.


If the forum had signatures, this is something close to what mine would be.
90 Goblin Shaman
11040
Why do you feel that your spec should have no weakness? Healing is a team effort, after all.

I love that you are saying this on a priest, who topped meters last patch and will continue to do so this patch. Thank you for your unnecessary and biased input, especially since it looks like you have no experience healing on a shaman.

There is a huge difference between having a weakness and having a lack of output. We are behind in heals, there is nothing to argue honestly. I currently heal in a 10 man raid group, and have been backed into the role of being our off heals rather than a main healer this content, and part of last. If you look at most 10 man raid comps, resto shamans are just not even being considered. And by the sounds of it from other resto shamans in 25 mans, the healing isn't there for them either. I just don't understand why blizzard is not addressing this issue. There have been a number of very viable suggestions to improve our class. I have yet to see anything from blizzard that they are even acknowledging our problem. As for those saying we will get a buff in 6.0, I'm not willing to wait an entire expansion for a buff to make us viable. For the first time, I am looking at re-rolling to another healing class, not because I don't love playing my shaman, but for the sake of my raids progression.
Edited by Zenzi on 3/12/2013 12:44 PM PDT
90 Night Elf Druid
15480
Strange thought, make the power of CH increase by 30% for each player it jumps to as opposed to decreasing. Keep range the same. Reward good usage. Flipping modifiers shouldn't be crazy difficult (of course though i know nothing about programming :P)
Edited by Sadiemay on 3/12/2013 12:45 PM PDT
90 Blood Elf Priest
12855
looking at the graph its obvious that a majority of the damage was absorbed, probably by the disc and holy pally. I asked if they wouldn't mind saving their mana during those phases and letting me heal the raid up since I know I can do it, and that is the only part of the fight where I can really help in any significant way. The response was that it didn't cost them significant mana to do that much healing, which is completely understandable, it really did only take 5% of their mana to heal up those phases so a lot of my healing rain and cds ended up as over healing.


yes! I've noticed this... Paladins and Disc are really designed around front loading absorbs now, so that HoT healers and Shaman Mastery are definitely getting less play. I've been debating converting every last stat into Crit and Haste on my Shaman so she can pair better with the "must keep everyone topped off and shielded" healers.

There's just a lot of perception that people can't have non-full health bars right now. I've told a few raid leaders, "no no, it's okay for a player to be at 90%, I've got Echos of Light and Renew on them... they're fine." But they just aren't buying it.
90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
Can I just say that it disgusts me that mages got changes after a WEEK of crying and shamans have been waiting for an entire expansion to get some attention??
Edited by Fleurs on 3/12/2013 12:49 PM PDT
90 Pandaren Shaman
12265
Strange thought, make the power of CH increase by 30% for each player it jumps to as opposed to decreasing. Keep range the same. Reward good usage. Flipping modifiers shouldn't be crazy difficult (of course though i know nothing about programming :P)


And when chain heal jumps the wrong direction, out of range of future jumps? Is that just bad play?

Sure would like to see the crying if CoH, PoH, WG, etc. had a 12.5 yard range from their initial target.
90 Night Elf Druid
15480
And when chain heal jumps the wrong direction, out of range of future jumps? Is that just bad play?


More like bad luck. Happens already and every tiime i see that i do i know i chose the wrong person to cast it on. And just throwing it out there.

edit: try not to make this thread about other classes at it then becomes a qq thread and not taken seriously. Not directed at anyone in particular, just a general statement.
Edited by Sadiemay on 3/12/2013 12:57 PM PDT
90 Draenei Shaman
17105

There's just a lot of perception that people can't have non-full health bars right now. I've told a few raid leaders, "no no, it's okay for a player to be at 90%, I've got Echos of Light and Renew on them... they're fine." But they just aren't buying it.


It's a combination of fight mechanics and healer mechanics that result in the whole triage system being a complete farce at this point. The reality is - heroic encounters generally require people to be topped or close to topped most of the time, and the amount of absorb based mechanics in the game mean that generally, the raid will be topped most of the time. Healer balance needs to be built around that reality, not some pie in the sky theory of triage that has no semblance on what is actually happening.
90 Pandaren Shaman
12265
More like bad luck. Happens already and every tiime i see that i do i know i chose the wrong person to cast it on. And just throwing it out there.


There are other healers. There are hots rolling, smart heals, damage still going out. You didn't have to choose the wrong target, their health levels simply had to change. Why should shaman be so very susceptible to "bad luck" ?
90 Pandaren Monk
13165
Can I just say that it disgusts me that mages got changes after a WEEK of crying and shamans have been waiting for an entire expansion to get some attention??


It is pretty peculiar. Also a bit depressing, especially looking at the Shaman blog thingy again and noticing the non-presence of Resto Shaman-related comments. It's like things have to get legitimately terrible for them to even consider looking at the spec, let alone fixing anything in a timely matter. If they are going to take so long before they do anything, a little preemptive strategy would be nice sometimes.
Edited by Thaimaishu on 3/12/2013 1:07 PM PDT
90 Draenei Shaman
17105
It's not even luck - it's the limitation of the class mechanics. You can set start casting a heal on a target from which it will bounce to 3 other targets at the time you start casting the spell. 2.2 seconds later, it's possible that the initial target is topped off, or one of the intermediate targets gets topped off, breaking the chain and wasting a whole lot of cast time and mana. There really isn't much that you can do about that; Chain Heal is both a very long cast time and very clunky in its mechanics; on top of barely doing enough healing to justify the mana cost/cast time even when it does go off perfectly and hit 4 targets.
90 Pandaren Shaman
12265
There really isn't much that you can do about that; Chain Heal is both a very long cast time and very clunky in its mechanics


Yes, but a baseline range increase would at least alleviate some of that clunkiness.
90 Draenei Shaman
16765
Also a bit depressing, especially looking at the Shaman blog thingy again and noticing the non-presence of Resto Shaman-related comments


I didn't read other classes but that "review" was literally just reading the 5.2 patch notes off to us. Reminded me of people who would read their power point presentations slide by slide.

03/12/2013 12:56 PMPosted by Tiberria
It's a combination of fight mechanics and healer mechanics that result in the whole triage system being a complete farce at this point.


While 25 mans have easily a handful of encounters, sometimes nearly entire tiers where triage takes a backseat, it always exists in some instances. It's the whole reason for the unending "HPS doesn't matter" debate. However, I do wish triage was more meaningful, but that also means more challenging content.

Aside from that, "triage" is nearly all a 10 man Resto Shaman has.
90 Night Elf Druid
15480
Yes, but a baseline range increase would at least alleviate some of that clunkiness.


As i said earlier i am on the fence on this thought process. If i wanted that type of spell i would play a different class. I would hate to see one of the most unique spells in the game gutted for hps sake. Would much rather see it tuned or tweeked to consume TW to drop it to a 1.5sec cast with raid buffs.
Edited by Sadiemay on 3/12/2013 1:14 PM PDT
90 Troll Shaman
17270
It's a combination of fight mechanics and healer mechanics that result in the whole triage system being a complete farce at this point. The reality is - heroic encounters generally require people to be topped or close to topped most of the time, and the amount of absorb based mechanics in the game mean that generally, the raid will be topped most of the time. Healer balance needs to be built around that reality, not some pie in the sky theory of triage that has no semblance on what is actually happening.

AOE healing is too &%$# high!
Because AOE healing is too powerful, raid mechanics have to hit even harder to challenge the raid.
Because the raid mechanics hit so hard, an emphasis on having 100% health to avoid gib + absorbs is created.
Because the raid constantly gets topped off, periodic healing and deep healing get marginalized.

It will be interesting to see if the higher incoming damage in heroic leads to more healers (fear of gibs) or players not being topped off (fear of not having enough dps even if everyone lives).

If it is the later of the two, you might see shaman improve in heroic. If stacking extra healers to provide gibs is the style... this is going to be a tier where I just turn off the meters. maybe I'll put a picture of my puppy over it.
90 Worgen Druid
7415
03/12/2013 12:35 AMPosted by Thaimaishu
Why do you feel that your spec should have no weakness? Healing is a team effort, after all.


No one said that. Literally no one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man


Yes, that has been said; particularly Sensations.

Don't take this the wrong way, but healing is a team effort.


Weakness is a strong word yes, but in a sense every healing class needs one for fair balance.


I find it funny that now that the shoe is on the other foot, shamans are crying for buffs. Yet when Druids were crying, all that was said: "Druids are fine".
90 Blood Elf Paladin
12445
03/12/2013 01:16 PMPosted by Pitkanen
It's a combination of fight mechanics and healer mechanics that result in the whole triage system being a complete farce at this point. The reality is - heroic encounters generally require people to be topped or close to topped most of the time, and the amount of absorb based mechanics in the game mean that generally, the raid will be topped most of the time. Healer balance needs to be built around that reality, not some pie in the sky theory of triage that has no semblance on what is actually happening.

AOE healing is too &%$# high!
Because AOE healing is too powerful, raid mechanics have to hit even harder to challenge the raid.
Because the raid mechanics hit so hard, an emphasis on having 100% health to avoid gib + absorbs is created.
Because the raid constantly gets topped off, periodic healing and deep healing get marginalized.

It will be interesting to see if the higher incoming damage in heroic leads to more healers (fear of gibs) or players not being topped off (fear of not having enough dps even if everyone lives).

If it is the later of the two, you might see shaman improve in heroic. If stacking extra healers to provide gibs is the style... this is going to be a tier where I just turn off the meters. maybe I'll put a picture of my puppy over it.


Sometimes I wonder what would happen if Blizzard accidentally introduced a *bug* that made most of these powerful AE heals cost the same as Glyphed Uplift currently does (48k, if you didn't know). I wonder how the perception of healer balance might change if they just couldn't manage to *fix* this bug for about a month, and everyone just had to adapt.

Riôt
90 Night Elf Druid
15480
I find it funny that now that the shoe is on the other foot, shamans are crying for buffs. Yet when Druids were crying, all that was said: "Druids are fine".


Thank you for adding your insightful view into this thread. You can move along now.
90 Orc Shaman
HC
16450
Yes, that has been said; particularly Sensations.


No one is saying for us to have no weakness(Neither in this thread, and I explained in the other what our weakness is), but ours is completely different than the druid situation/weakness. Your weakness is burst healing but you can still deal with it in the means of your toolkit. We can't spread raid heal. There is a difference. We simply need a small to to help, this is why Blizzard gave us the riptide glyph, but it has failed.
The problem is that 'weakness' is way too subjective. There is space for middle ground between not optimal and flat out terrible. We don't want to be healer gods spamming Jesus beams to 200k hps all day; however, we'd like to at least have the output and tools to be deal with movement and/or spreading without being 30% behind.
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