T15 Trinkets and Disc. Mastery Question

96 Tauren Priest
10205
Doesn't Horridon's buff math out to 1467 Spirit, the same as all the other trinkets this tier? I ran the math and even the Shado-Pan trinket seems to give the same amount, is it the fact that the buff can stack that makes it so valuable for a regen. standpoint?
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90 Human Priest
17730
Just to add to the point about Horridon's last gasp...I really like everything about it.

1. It has no icd. This means that it can (and does) stack if it procs back to back.

2. It procs a lot, and thus will be a much more stable source of regen then the soothing talisman, which can get screwed by fight length.

3. It restores mana over time, instead of all at once in one burst. This makes it less likely to waste part of the proc when it happens shortly after the pull.

4. Passive int! What's not to love there.


If you're Disc and Atonement doesn't proc it - then how is it any good?
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100 Undead Priest
10715

If you're Disc and Atonement doesn't proc it - then how is it any good?


Luckily this is just a hypothetical question, as Atonement does in fact proc the trinket.
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1 Tauren Shaman
0
Doesn't Horridon's buff math out to 1467 Spirit, the same as all the other trinkets this tier? I ran the math and even the Shado-Pan trinket seems to give the same amount, is it the fact that the buff can stack that makes it so valuable for a regen. standpoint?
Link your math? The most conservative estimates pegged it as the highest regen trinket so far (comparing even normal Horridon's vs H Qin-Xi's).

And that was before anyone knew the trinket proc STACKED. Multiple times.
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96 Tauren Priest
10205
I calculated it at one stack so:

1656 Mana / 2 = 828 MP5

828 MP5 = 1.1287 * X * 0.5

(828/1.1287)/0.5 = X

X = 1467.17463 Spirit
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1 Tauren Shaman
0
1.1287 * X * 0.5
You just wot?

No, like, when you type up an equation you need to define your variables. I can't read your mind when you were figuring out the numbers and I sure as hell am not going to do the math to figure out which is which, or else I would have done it myself already.

I don't see (or know) any accounting for the RPPM system, and it's certainly not that simple.
Edited by Kangamooster on 3/15/2013 9:47 PM PDT
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96 Tauren Priest
10205
Oh yeah, I haven't even looked at formula for the RPPM yet, which is probably why I've come to the conclusion of it being equivalent to the other trinkets. If you have any way to calculate this it'd be great if you could show me the numbers, I just ran that quickly off the top of my head while browsing trinkets and deemed it correct seeing as all the other trinkets give 1467 spirit.

Sorry about the ambiguity, I'm responding in between attempts in Throne of Thunder.

MP5 = Total Mana * 0.02 + (1.1287 * Spirit * 50%)

is what I was going off of.

I have used this formula since Derevka provided it on Tales of a Priest located here:
http://talesofapriest.com/2012/06/09/mists-of-pandarias-spirit-regen-and-mana-models/
Edited by Safyr on 3/15/2013 9:51 PM PDT
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1 Tauren Shaman
0
Sorry, I just edited my post again.

The RPPM is not what I'm interested in, what I'm interested in is WHAT are your actual numbers.

Like wtf is this
03/15/2013 09:37 PMPosted by Safyr
1.1287
or that
03/15/2013 09:37 PMPosted by Safyr
0.5
Like, I need explanations for what is what. I'm not a mind reader. :P
I just ran that quickly off the top of my head while browsing trinkets and deemed it correct seeing as all the other trinkets give 1467 spirit.
You ESPECIALLY never do calculations with a result in mind before you even get it, especially when it's off (VP trinket is not 1467 averaged spirit even when used perfectly with no waste on cd).
Edited by Kangamooster on 3/15/2013 9:51 PM PDT
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96 Tauren Priest
10205
I got the calculation from Tales of a Priest, Derevka is normally someone who I trust in their analysis of priest performance. The article where this is talked about is located here

http://talesofapriest.com/2012/06/09/mists-of-pandarias-spirit-regen-and-mana-models/

Also, I did not run this with a result in mind, it was just that when I saw 1467 I realized that is the same amount of spirit that the other tier 15 trinkets are providing, and it would make sense that the spirit would be similar, if not the same, on the same tier level trinkets which would delegate selection of trinket due to their secondary proc. abilities.

Mind you this is an older article and I've been expecting this to be changing sooner or later, but for the time being it is what I've been running off of. As soon as I can find some information on how to calculate RPPM information I'll definitely work on it.
Edited by Safyr on 3/15/2013 9:59 PM PDT
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1 Tauren Shaman
0
Oh yeah, I haven't even looked at formula for the RPPM yet, which is probably why I've come to the conclusion of it being equivalent to the other trinkets. If you have any way to calculate this it'd be great if you could show me the numbers, I just ran that quickly off the top of my head while browsing trinkets and deemed it correct seeing as all the other trinkets give 1467 spirit.
RPPM formulas, taken from Howtopriest (fairly outdated since Blizzard changed RPPM mechanics slightly: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8197741003#1 )

http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3071
RPPM scales with your haste, so we need to take this into account when determining the value of the new trinket procs.
  • low haste reforge (normal healer) = 1.04
  • high haste reforge (unrealistic healer) = 1.2
  • Because RPPM takes the highest of your melee, ranged, or spell haste, we have to take into account the higher 10% melee haste raid buff (source: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6893549789 ). Power infusion temporarily pushes spell haste higher than melee haste for its duration, so we need to take this gain into account in addition to the loss of 10% melee haste.
  • 10% melee haste buff = 1.1
  • power infusion = 20% spell haste * 5% spell haste / temp loss of 10% melee haste * 20s / 2min = 1 + (1.2 * 1.05 / 1.1 - 1) * 20 / 120 = 1.024242424
  • We are assuming 1 bloodlust with an 8 minute fight duration for consistency with other approximations
  • bloodlust = 30% haste * 40s / 8min = 1 + 0.3 * 40 / 480 = 1.025
  • Putting this all together, this gives us:
  • Worst case (low haste, no power infusion) = 1.04 * 1.1 * 1.025 = 1.1726
  • Low Intermediate case (low haste, power infusion) = 1.04 * 1.1 * 1.024242424 * 1.025 = 1.2010266663824
  • High Intermediate case (high haste, no power infusion) = 1.2 * 1.1 * 1.025 = 1.353
  • Best case (high haste, power infusion) = 1.2 * 1.1 * 1.024242424 * 1.025 = 1.385799999672
  • In practice, most healers will have low haste, so the Worst/Low Intermediate case numbers are most realistic.

    Horridon's is not that simple, though. The way the stacking proc works is that if you get a 2nd proc at any time during a proc already, the mana gain is doubled AND the duration of the buff is reset, so you effectively get significantly more mana than you would have with 2 separate, non overlapping procs. Calculating this would actually take some serious !@# calculus though so haha screw that.

    TL;DR - Horridon's Last Gasp, due to the behavior of the proc, is far and away the best trinket this tier. Frighteningly so.
    Edited by Kangamooster on 3/15/2013 10:12 PM PDT
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    96 Tauren Priest
    10205
    Thank you for the resources! I'll look over them and familiarize myself with the math! This should help clarify some of the confusion I've ran into in regards to the RPPM system.
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