Making Sub no dagger viable?

90 Human Rogue
7170
Hey everyone,

I'd like to discuss how (if any) the sublety spec could be viable without using daggers.

Some of the older rogues here may remember a time around when Naxxramas was first introduced and maces still had a chance to stun for 3 sec on hit. Well those days are LONG gone.

I really used to enjoy a sublety/bleed spec that also kept me feeling like a rogue instead of a warrior like combat spec.

These days I have a bit of a latency problem so backstabbing is almost certainly out of the question. I really enjoy the passive bonuses of sub spec (honor among thieves / energetic recovery / executioner mastery)

Whats missing from the sub rogue toolkit that could be added for loss of damage from not using backstab? Would Sub need a new attack like Revealing Strike? What about allowing Hemo to stack with itself so using it more than once for its debuff was viable?

Any suggestions? I really miss being a semi sneaky swashbuckler as opposed to a fury warrior with stealth that combat seems to be.

Or should i just reroll Fury warrior?
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
10730
I do not see blizzard making non dagger sub equal. Main reason why is that rogues are the only class in game that use daggers, and they do not want to make them even more of niche.
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90 Human Rogue
17275
Some of the older rogues here may remember a time around when Naxxramas was first introduced and maces still had a chance to stun for 3 sec on hit. Well those days are LONG gone.


Apparently you aren't one of them.

You can still be Combat and use Maces. Combat was the only spec (BC era) that had Stunning Maces. Unlike Warriors that had a Mace that also proc'd a stun, our Maces proc'd haste. The Combat Mace skill had the RNG stun attached to it. In Wrath, Maces was changed to a set amount of ArP.

So once again, you can still play Combat Maces if you like. It's still (and in a lot of cases) more viable than it ever was (except in PVP where RNG stun-proc was OP as hell and rightfully removed).

Hemo spec'd non-Daggers was NOT Mace specific. It was viable for a couple reasons. 1) low cost of Hemo to generate CPs (this was an era that saw Shiv spamming Combat be one of the highest DPS specs due to Shivs ultra low CP generation as well). 2) Sub's end point talents weren't that great, letting Rogues pickup most of the viable talents from both Assassination and Combat trees as well.

I really miss being a semi sneaky swashbuckler as opposed to a fury warrior with stealth that combat seems to be.


WTF class were you playing that had stunning Maces that wasn't a glorified Fury Warrior with stealth? That's EXACTLY what Combat Mace Rogues were.
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90 Goblin Rogue
2485
agreed. assassination is great when you're still trying to learn how to PVP. It's good sustained DPS and while sub is more burst you won't accomplish much with crappy internets/no skills.

spec assassination and play it as if you're sub lol :P
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
12470
If you can't backstab on your rogue

Lol, I think there is an ability that will help him backstab on his rogue. It's called Kidney Shot. You see, a rogue uses hemo to build cheap CPs, then 5 pt kidney. Now you can backstab :)

Just out of curiosity... I see all of these threads about people with latency not being able to get behind targets for BS. For one, I don't think you should just spam BS. Two... have you discovered gouge? This will let you re-position for a backstab.
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Brickelol cover that up, your troll is showing.
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