A Murder of Crows vs Vanish

100 Human Rogue
11885
So, apparently, using vanish (twice) does nothing to get rid of the Hunter ability A Murder of Crows and they'll keep you unstealthed.

Is this how it's supposed to work or was I the victim of yet another stealth-is-broken bug?
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100 Orc Hunter
10875
its a dot right? vanish doesn't get rid of dots right? vanish doesn't get rid of my serpent sting.

can you cos it? are you saying that amoc prevents vanish like a ferals fff?
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90 Orc Rogue
10470
its a dot right? vanish doesn't get rid of dots right? vanish doesn't get rid of my serpent sting.

can you cos it? are you saying that amoc prevents vanish like a ferals fff?


You can't do anything against it

The only way to get it of of yourself is to die
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
8310
Cloak will get rid of the dot, but the animation will stay on you for the full duration, meaning anyone interested can still see you.
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91 Undead Rogue
8620
Cloak will get rid of the dot, but the animation will stay on you for the full duration, meaning anyone interested can still see you.
And on occasion the animation will actually break you out of stealth on its own.
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90 Gnome Rogue
10775
I came on here to post a about this as well. It is annoying the hell our of me.

It cannot be CoSed. It chases you all over the map. It ignores vanish. Continues to chase you or fly around you long after you are out of combat.

The random flight animations cause the birds to spread out in a long stream. Will pull you out of stealth even after you are out of combat and they are still fluttering around.

I even have resorted to running straight into it and try to "gather up" as many crows as possible as fast as I can to absorb it so that I can vanish after but the darn things flutter around and don't actually hit you for several seconds.

If this is working as intended than Bliz can piss-off with their design decisions.

It is definitely broken.
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90 Human Hunter
3935
I've noticed the same thing on my rogue. Thankfully for rogues very few hunters take murder of crows.

I think the reason it survives vanish is that the way murder of crows is programmed, it's like a physical DOT on the target, like a bleed. I've noticed that when a hunter dies his crows keep attacking, which means it's not designed like a "pet" that dies with the hunter but rather like a bleed.

I'd be interested to see if the dwarf racial stoneform clears murder of crows- I suspect it would.
Edited by Arrowset on 3/20/2013 7:49 AM PDT
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100 Night Elf Rogue
9125
Treat it like a bleed then I guess.

I dont mind it taking me out of stealth...I dont consider birds pecking at me to be particularly magical and then not CoS-able (though seems that the damage part is)

Its not as bad as FF since being a dot you can still try and stealth between the ticks, and subterfuge gives you a bit more leeway. FF duration is just utter BS in PvP, really needs to be a separate and shorter debuff apart from the armor reduc.
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90 Gnome Rogue
10775
Treat it like a bleed then I guess.

I dont mind it taking me out of stealth...I dont consider birds pecking at me to be particularly magical and then not CoS-able (though seems that the damage part is)

Its not as bad as FF since being a dot you can still try and stealth between the ticks, and subterfuge gives you a bit more leeway. FF duration is just utter BS in PvP, really needs to be a separate and shorter debuff apart from the armor reduc.


FF is a BS debuff and until it is addresses I am not taking any Bliz claims that they are concerned about rogue representation seriously. FF is an obvious imbalance that overwhelmingly effects one class.

However to say FF is worse than murder of crows is a bit subjective. FF at most levels of play for the average rogue it frustrating. MoC though literally causes you to be trained by everyone within 40 yards and leads them right to you no matter what you try to do.
Edited by Pilfer on 3/20/2013 9:43 AM PDT
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90 Undead Priest
8560
Iv hardly seen this, maybe 3x max. But did last night in a TP on my rogue

I had no bleeds up and was easily able to vanish after killing the hunter.

Tho the crows kept chasing me, they never broke my stealth.

I found a lonesome ret in mid by peeking out from behind the leaf hut near our graveyard. Since I wasn't sure if he could see birds, but they weren't breaking my stealth, figured I'd try to shroud + shadow walk just incase.

In short, he didn't see me, despite my seeing the birds continously hit me in stealth and I got a clean opener. I suspect maybe only the applying hunter can spot u, or shroud covers them (sems illogical).

Either that or he wanted to give a go @ soloing a 397k rogue with opener. He never bubbled tho (but trinketed kidney immediately) so I doubt that.

The ability seems buggy at best.
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100 Orc Hunter
10875
i was wondering if it was a bleed or another typed dot.

nathyra says that cloak removes the dot but not the animation? if cloak removes the dot then the dot isn't considered a bleed. cloak doesn't remove bleeds. dots still tick after their caster dies. amoc could just be coded as a regular dot... it could be coded as a physical dot that cloak DOES remove.

can i get confirmation that cloak DOES remove the dot but DOESN'T remove the animation? so its the animation that is knocking you out of stealth?

the trail of crows wouldn't matter much in the combats i have with rogues cause they pretty much only vanish in order to get a reopen and even if i am in a flare they get the open anyway.

it would be hugely annoying to have that trail of crows following you around though because anyone would then be able to aoe that area and knock you out. or just stay away from the random crows flying out of nowhere.
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90 Gnome Rogue
10775
My issue is I am on a brutally active PVP server, our roads and quest areas in heavy traffic zones are seemingly paved in skeletons. As a rogue escaping is often your ONLY option to avoid a corpsewalk.

Gankers run in packs.

Even PVE only players farm a full set of PVP gear just to be able to do their dailies. PVE gear on our server, no matter how high the item level, has only one place - the safety and security of a raid instance.

In the past few hunters selected murder of crows so it was not much of a problem.

However, the power of this buggy spell is becoming well known to WPVPers and I am seeing it several times a day now. It makes escaping impossible.

I need more time to learn if only those in the hunter's party can see it.
Edited by Pilfer on 3/21/2013 10:26 AM PDT
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90 Undead Rogue
3140
I went and asked the hunters about it. They informed me that crows is a 30 second physical bleed. So no cloak and vanish.
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90 Gnome Rogue
10775
Well a bleed with that kind of high profile visual is overpowered in WPVP/RBGs/BGs
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90 Undead Rogue
3140
Well a bleed with that kind of high profile visual is overpowered in WPVP/RBGs/BGs


Yeah the graphic fools you into thinking it is a pet like attack that you can vanish away from.
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100 Blood Elf Hunter
10120
It's not a bleed, its not magic, it's kind of like...a undispellable pet attack.

It can however miss. Pop your dodge, and bam, they'll miss for a little.

And let's talk OP, Shuriken Toss can be used at 30 yards, and hits for...10-15k a hit.
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It is because every player in this game that is not a rogue is annoyed by rogues. We cannot be seen and attack from the shadows. We also lock players out more than any other class. It is very frustrating to not have control of your class. Because of this, rogues are complained about more than any other class. Never mind that outside of our ramped up burst every minute we hit like a wet noodle that most every class can self heal through....

The truth is, almost every class has anti rogue abilities. Murder of Crows is just overkill. To the extreme. ONE nubtarted move that applies a giant visual, does decent damage (enough to actually have to worry about), prevent restealth...that is bad enough. But to last 30 seconds!? C'mon! Even Faery Fire can be cloaked.

This is just another example of Blizzard saying "&%*^ you" to rogues because their dear subs complain about us too much. After our stuns, silences, ranged, and even armor pen gets nerf batted next season, a rogue will be a rarity in any pvp. The only players that will play rogues will be those retartedly talented gamers with "spidey sense" who could beat you in a duel wearing glaives and lvl 80 pve gear.
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