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I am probably two weeks or so late asking this. I feel a little bit like I walked into a local bar without really learning the "Rules of the Establishment" before offering my insight on how to fix it.
First off I was very pleased with how well last weeks event went. I offered up quite a few rules and procedures had very little expectations, and short of a few grievers who had nothing to do with the event. Things went off without a hitch. Horde side we had a Panda who decided to mess with Sorrow, and then place down guards which killed him.
I felt obligated to tell the Alliance that we had to move him even though it was only 10 yards or so to keep him from the guards. Sadly there is nothing we can do about those who chose to mess with us. For that Sorrow I do apologize. He was not with us, and I tried to inform him through whisper and /s that he was not to touch you (might not have been my best idea).
With my excitement of the success of the last two events, and accolades of enjoyment from both sides of the Faction Fence aside. One thing that surprised me a bit was people in vent who expressed concern that I was talking with both sides. It was not harsh or anything, but I heard people concerned that I was giving Alliance info about the Horde, and how can we be sure that they were not listening in on us.
These events do take planning on both sides. I figured I would be the best person to arrange this. Please be assured I am not selling secrets.
I have been talking with both sides for a while now trying to make these events come together. I have enjoyed my conversations with Sorrow, Venicide, Sparkshift, ect.. regardless of faction.
I think Sorrow (the guy who sits behind the keyboard and monitor) is a decent guy. I would probably sit down and have a drink with him should the chance ever arrive. However, Sorrow the Rolly Polly Panda that keeps sticking Arrows in my body, I hate that guy.
I was kind of hoping that this was the way most players felt. Yet I have been hearing rumors about Full Time RP mind sets when logged in. Horde does not talk to Alliance and Visa Versa with bad JuJu upon people that do.
Is what I am trying to do breaking some sort of RP element to this server that I was not aware of and foolishly did not ask? I am trying to gain the support of the Horde and Alliance. Most everyone I have spoken to tells me they had fun and are looking forward to the next event. However, if I am breaking some server or guild rules it may be hard for me to gain further support.
I completely want to hate Sorrow, BoM, and Alliance in game. I want to take the RP of that hatred and create, wars, battles, events as large as possible for the server. It just takes work from both sides to make this fictitious War happen, IMO...
Edited by Senojauhsoj on 3/11/2013 9:51 AM PDT
There is NOTHING wrong with talking to people who play on the opposite faction. Rivalries are enhanced by communication, whether it's to coordinate events(where communication is pretty much required) or to express admiration and appreciation for the competition that makes the game fun.
Though sometimes finding out that the obnoxious troll who spews random words and acts like a 12yr old on forums and is a complete griefer in game IS actually a 30 yr old who acts the same way in vent...is a little soulcrushing. So proceed at your own risk. ;)
(Turning off the RP because this deserves an actual response that's easy to read)
First off, you have to understand that some people will look for any excuse to complain. One side will generally find itself on the "short end of the stick" in a fight, and will cast about for any reason they can find to "blame" the loss on. That's just human nature for a lot of people. If they aren't winning, then it HAS to be someone else's fault.
Secondly, and this is total honesty here, if there wasn't a rule in HSF preventing me from having a Maelstrom-based Alliance alt, I would be doing what you are doing - making friends on both sides of the fence to better facilitate communication between factions. Heck, that's why I try to be friendly on the forums - I'm a social person and I don't care about the pixels, I care about the PEOPLE. And, as you mentioned, I'd go have a drink with most of the folks on this forum - not because I get to shoot at them or get stabbed by them - but because we have something in common and likely more than we know.
You are correct in that both sides MUST be kept in the loop during these events, because once that communication breaks down (ZEP!) then the results are much like what we experienced with the guard dropping Horde on Friday night. Because you were able to communicate with the Alliance, we were able to change plans on the fly and improve the game for everyone.
In short, keep doing what you're doing. Keep making alliances on both sides. You can't have a war with only one team - and with so much bad blood between some guilds/players, we need an at least semi-impartial "referee" to keep an eye on these events. The people complaining are only complaining because they aren't mature enough to just play the game for the sake of fun. It's win or nothing - and if it's not a win, then it's obviously someone else's fault.
Just saying, if you ARE feeding information to the Alliance during these games, you're going through an awful lot of effort just to make the Horde look bad - and while I'm sure there are "some people" who might go to such lengths (like the losers who join HSF just to screenshot our calendar and share with their Alliance friends - or who join our raids, then mysterious "disconnect then reconnect" only to have twenty Allies show up two minutes later. Yeah, that's soooooo mysterious!) ... but I don't get that vibe from you. You seem like you just want to have some big fun and bring everyone else along for the ride. And for that, you have my support and that of the more hardcore WPVPers in the Strike Force.
Keep doin' what yo' doin'. Know wut I'm sayin'?
In my observations of the human race, there are, and will probably always be, people who heckle/!@#$%/complain/rage at your actions, even though what you're doing will help out the community in the long run.
Ignore such things, not for my sake or what you are trying to do for the realm as a whole, but because you, personally, appear to enjoy it.
I feel sorry for you guys sticking to that rule. It might have made some sense in the days before RealID and battletags, but wpvp is such an informal activity with the current state of the server, that it is a bit of a waste.
Alliance is a lot of fun to play over the larger BG weekends (I just finished gearing my hunter completely in about 14 hours of /played at 90) and it's really, really, really easy to level on alliance. Seriously, as an old time alliance player, it's always been a running joke that alliance quests and zones are far easier to level in... and it's still true today, although less blatantly so in some spots.
Not to mention, a lot of alliance quests and zones have a good bit of lore and whatnot. I think Warcraft lore is pretty garbage outside of some of the big stories we saw in WC3 and 2, but there's still some fun stories you're missing there.
Also, it makes camping rares like warbringers and warscouts really easy when you can just camp a character on them for both factions and kill anyone that tries to tag it...
I agree wit' you, but I don' make de rules.
I've played Allies off-n-on again ovah de years, mos'ly t' play wit' frien's who won't play de "ugly races" ... but I nevah really got inta it like I did de Horde.
But yeah, de rule kinda silly now dat we can add ReadID frien's to our list or log inta anuddah servah an' still see alla de same zones 'cept Pandaland - but whatevah, it don' boddah me none.
Yeah, I've really been on both sides of this server, and I can honestly say I haven't met a single person I openly hate, there may be annoyances here and there, but I think as a server-wide community everyone's really close, and I'd never trade any of the friends I made.
But outside of that lovey-dovey crap... you guys are... tolerable at least much more so than any some of the other servers friends and family have tried convincing me to go to.
I think, as a new player to the server, that it is fantastic to be on a server where people are doing something to make things fun and active again. So many times you read forums and thre is all the "way back when this server was active" threads, but no one does anything to organize and make new activity. Hence the problem just perpututes, festers, and keeps going.
Hats off to Senoj and all the people that realize if we all want more activity and more WPVP and events, then we simply decide to set it up and do it. Don't just say "I wish".
I think its sad that anyone in the gaming community outside of role-play, but in reality would try to keep people from being social about their hobby as real people. Maybe I'm misunderstanding. I get not playing a character or such in RP or on their faction team in events. I don't get not being able to talk to Bob or Sue on their real id as people to create and promote play and those events. I mean.... even blizz knows better than that. The priest forums are all priests, not faction based. We talk class tactics and such all the times. It's a common thread and hobby we share. If the people I play "against" get better and awesome, then that means that I have to step up my game and be challenged. Keeps it all from getting boring! Games break down when the people in them can't "play" together any longer. If we wanted to just play by ourselves without one another we would be all solo PVE'ers. **shrugs** End of the day, it's just a game for fun.
The Horde Strike Force takes the "RP" aspect of RPPvP very seriously. To wit, HSF is kind of a "concept" guild...when you join the Horde Strike Force you relinquish all ties with the Alliance, both proverbially and literally. Having no Alliance characters on Maelstrom is the actualization of this severance. By joining the Horde Strike Force, you commit your characters all to benefiting the Horde as a whole on Maelstrom. The mission of the Horde Strike Force is to brutally attack and kill all Alliance regardless of provocation or lack thereof whenever they are encountered. The goal of the Horde Strike Force is to wipe the Alliance out, or defeat them to a point where they surrender unconditionally to Horde might. The Horde Strike Force is basically like a sword of the Warchief...when you join our guild you become a part of something greater; we are literally the fighting arm of the Horde. Let other guilds and wiser leaders work on diplomacy or reaching agreements with the Alliance...when you join the Strike Force you agree to commit yourself to Alliance destruction, taking the burden of becoming the remorseless avengers of our ancestors and selfless defenders of our children to come. We rise above dealings with the Alliance, we are the angels of judgement that cannot be turned aside by pretty words. We are a product of Alliance treachery and do what must be done so other Horde can sleep soundly and peacefully. We bear a huge responsibility to all Horde everywhere, and this responsibility requires a complete and total commitment to the Horde. Whenever you log in as a member of HSF you are actually RPing, whether you do it consciously or not, because your existence defines these RP goals of the guild. Though we all have our own individual beliefs and approach things in our own ways, when you are dealing with the most deadly army on Maelstrom you have to remember that this is war and we don't do things because it's good for us, we do things because it's good for the Horde. We fight for the weak because we are the strong. If you see a member of the Horde Strike Force, you can be always be assured of something : if you're Horde, you can be assured we are a pillar of strength you can run to for help; if you're Alliance, you can be assured that your life is in imminent danger.
If we approach an event as a guild, we will do so on our own terms, not those laid out before us. We will work within parameters for the greater good of RP or World PvP, but also we will stay true to our own RP outlook and will never do something that the guild would not do. Though individuals may do as they see fit, as a guild we are a force unto our own and follow no rules that limit our abilities to thoroughly destroy our enemies. We will not stop doing something because an Alliance asks us to, even to benefit a roleplaying event; we will not put the RP rules of an event over our own RP rules, to do so would be to completely break character. Remember this when you want the HSF at your events...we will try to compromise for the sake of fun as much as we can, but we will not compromise who we are.
On that final note, Gug really doesn't think anybody here, regardless of what is said on the forums, actually has a problem with any real life player, just the characters they play. Nobody actually wishes any ill will on anybody in RL, this IS just a game.
Edited by Gug on 3/13/2013 3:03 PM PDT
The Horde Strike Force takes the "RP" aspect of RPPvP very seriously. To wit, HSF is kind of a "concept" guild...when you join the Horde Strike Force you relinquish all ties with the Alliance, both proverbially and literally. Having no Alliance characters on Maelstrom is the actualization of this severance. ......
I am going to address this as someone new here and getting to know all of this server for the first time.
You just said in one sentence you expect real life people to commit to an imaginary guild with their real life choices? Wow... Jim Jones creepy much? So my roomie of sixteen years plays Horde and loves the genre, so I don't talk to her anymore through real ID about her day even though I don't get to see her in RL all the time? Sorry... no game is worth alienating real life friends, family, and people for anyone. That violates every aspect of the gamer community charities and individuals like Gabe and Tyco (Penny Arcade), the guys at CAD, and Least I Can Do and many others started. Its this blurring of the lines that makes people not like gaming and not want their kids in it. I mean do you want someone really telling you who you can speak with OUT of character? Just wow....
Also, I feel bad for the fact that you just said in print... that you won't play by the rules as a PLAYER. You are using RP as an excuse to blatantly say "I won't play well with others." In kindergarden this meant you got a note from your parents. In elementary school most people learned that if you can't play with the agreed on rules to the game, you don't get to play with others. So ... by stating that HSF can not follow the parameters of the event, you are forcing people that coordinate and want to run events for people not to invite them? I don't think that is fair to the players in HSF. I have met some that are NOT cheaters and can win and be awesome without a need to OUT of character as people fail to cooperate, support, and create a great game for others by working as a community. You know the one we are ALL a part of? I feel really bad and really kinda creeped by this. Sorry... But no one picks my friends in the REAL world and I don't support blatant disrespect to people that take the time to coordinate fun for the masses like Senoj.
This is really sad and a perfect example of why communities on servers are dying off and numbers are dropping if you can't play together and build something out of character. I can't believe that all of HSF thinks this is cool. This is just.... WOW.
So...Gug...have you talked Blizzard into letting you be the boss before Garrosh in the final raid this expansion? Have it be a PvPesque fight like the Priestess Delrissa fight in Magister's Terrace(or the Faction Champs fight in ToC). ;)
This is just.... WOW.
This is just the Horde Strike Force.
Gug pretty certain nobody in the history of HSF has ever had to alientate friends and/or family just to play WoW. How serious are you about any game you play? Do you make your own rules? Do you follow the rules the designers set out for you? If you turn down the lights, light some candles, lock your door and put on your favorite music, are you getting too "into the game"? It's true we have a charter, and being in HSF requires more of a commitment than being in most guilds on Maelstrom. More's the pity.
You don't have to like it, you don't have to play the way HSF plays, you don't have to join our guild.There are plenty of servers out there, plenty of guilds, plenty of people who don't have the focus as a guild that we do. We play the way we want to play. If you don't like it, join somebody else. Gug can recommend many good guilds and guild leaders out there.
We been around for literally over 5 years now, and one of the very few guilds on Maelstrom that has been around this long and is still very active, strong and growing. HSF is one of the top guilds on Maelstrom, regardless of how you define that term. Call it what you want, but what we do works, for Maelstrom as well as for us. Don't be creeped out because it sounds different, it's really no more than a simple extension of gameplay that may not be what you're used to, but is actually a lot of fun.
Okay... so to understand and be sure I get this right. HSF refuses to make an out of character commitment to follow rules and set up scenarios that PLAYERS set up because they can't ever step out of character to do that in the game?
So the guild leader is telling Senoj that the choice is either HSF doesn't have to play by the rules players do (like letting someone steal from the bank in monopoly) or he can't invite them because their gonna get in trouble in guild for being good gamers and putting the community first by participating and playing well with others?
I have to be missing something here. I have never seen soemone first off unable to respond out of character like a person about topics that are not role play like coordination of events. Second, its sad that a group is going to wind up excluded by anything fun because they can't coordinate in game events out of game. But if they are not excluded then the events don't work becuse there is no coordination, cohesion, or real point. To be blunt.... this is sad and is frustrating seeing so many good people trying to fix a game, bring life back to it, and make it a large scale participation for all and hit this kind of road block.
I came here becauase Senoj started these events and this project. It's a good thing. I wouldn't even be here if he couldn't talk to players that aren't horde. I can't agree with this ideal. It is the kiss of death to server population growth.
i am creeped out becasue every role play book of rules and guidelines, every video game warning, and every thing we know as role players EMPHASIZES to never lose the line between the player and the character. I creep anytime someone says someone can't do something in REAL life because the fantasy game might be effected.
We're going to have to agree to disagree. I just am going ot miss the interaction that a TON of HSF players add and contribute if they are not allowed to participate. Sadly, I don't know how Senoj can let them if you are blatantly saying that your PLAYERS can not be trusted to follow the rules of scenarios and good play. I feel for you Senoj. There are so many great folks I have gotten to interact with and would hate to see restricted like that.
But... as you said, Gug. It's their choice. **shrugs**
At the battle of the Vale of Eternal Blossoms a few weeks ago, we came in and fought; we followed the rules of the event as they were set forth and Gug took command of the Horde forces; it was because of HSF that there was a fight there at all and not just a Alliance slaughter of Horde.
At the last event in Krasarang with the hostages, one of our higher ranked members, Gahnji, volunteered to be the hostage for the good of the scenario. You'll find that any events you have on Maelstrom will have HSF in some capacity.
Talking about events out of character to coordinate them is actually a less true method of RP than taking events organically...you're putting your character in a place that your character would probably never be in the first place, forcing him/her to react to a situation that follows a set storyline that your character might never actually follow on his own.
Is your character just a set of numbers and talents and gear that you can pick up and plop into any scenario as you see fit, with different outlooks or reactions that change as they need to to progress the storyline? "In this scenario my character is a pirate who is trying to steal treasure, but in the next scenario my character is a brave knight who will protect the innocent"?
Or is your character a constant living creation that has his own identity, one that must be taken into account whenever he interacts with the world? "Regardless of what I'm doing, I'm going to kill Night Elves on sight because they killed my family and I'm never going to get into the water because my character never learned how to swim"?
Both are RP visions, both are valid RP methods. Long story short, the Horde Strike Force RPs the latter style when participating with the guild as a whole, and Gug believes the latter is a truer form of RP than that of conditional scenario creation.
Gug believes if anything our doctrine encourages RP and WPvP more, because though there may be an scheduled created event every week or every month that follows the first RP method, the vast majority of the time we're living and fighting out in the world, doing dailies, getting into battles, calling for help, following the latter RP method. Gug believes our outlook and example encourages real RP constantly out in the real world, not just when somebody comes up with an event every now and then.
well i know for a fact there is members of hsf that have alliance toons and one player in hsf is married to some one in nru but gug you have no members in your guild that play both sides casue when the almightu gug speakes horde fall in fear and listen right ? i dont think so and if you belive that then you sir should relook at your game play . it is a game and not ever one who is your guild listens to you. and im glad they dont . i dont dislike you a person matter fact we would more than likely drink a beer irl but i dont agree with your forceing folks to play only horde . but i gusse there is some mindless puppet who need that
I never said that Ghanji and other members of HSF were not awesome. In fact, I most definitely cited that I enjoy playing with those that have participated and played.
I cited that you can not separate real life from fantasy and that is disturbing when you say that people have to do things in their real life to be in your guild. That violates all the safety, good conduct, and proper aspects of role play. It sets standards and precedents that are horrible for RP. What jehsa says and does the person behind the keys.
I am not talking about RP style. I am talking about your statement that PLAYERS can not follow rules and play with others.
I would like you to please courteously address that witnout it being about RP. My statements are about where RP STOPS. It stops at REAL ID. It stops at Battletag. That's why blizz created them and called them REAL.
Obviously you missed the whole point of what Gug saying. Re-read it, it should explain your concerns. Gug see Gug made the mistake of trying to reason with somebody who obviously doesn't agree with the way we do things. Gug knew that responding to this post might have this effect, was just hoping to convey to Senoj who we are and what we do, and give a little insight into the why.
We don't have to explain anything to you, you not in our guild, and you don't really matter. Like you said, you new here. We don't owe you any explanation as to why we do what we do. You think whatever you wish, that your prerogative.
This where the Horde Strike Force stands as to Senoj concerns about the server balance and event participation. Senoj, you may contact Gug in-game as to any specifics that need to be discussed.
Newcomers to Maelstrom, you should sit back and look at what we are before you pass any judgement over our server or the way we operate. If you don't like it, Gug not recall asking your opinion anyway. We've been here years before you showed up, and we'll be here long after you're gone.
As you know, HSF participated in the your Wilds hostage scenario recently and we all followed your rules and got a long swell with no issues. HSF does have its own code of conduct but that doesn't mean we aren't reasonable and can't play well with others. As Gug said, "we will try to compromise for the sake of fun as much as we can, but we will not compromise who we are." I think that's something Jehsa skimmed over. I hope we keep getting invited to your events, despite what Jehsa's and other people's opinion are of us. We've really enjoyed the events thus far and appreciate your creative drive in making them happen.
Jehsa, as far as your disagreement with the way our guild operates, that's completely fine. Those of us who join HSF and really enjoy being in the guild don't mind sacrificing a little bit, such as not having Alliance alts on the Maelstrom realm. We aren't forbidden to play Alliance, we're just forbidden to play Alliance on Maelstrom, and that's not so bad (and FAR from disgusting or disturbing or creepy). It keeps us dedicated to HSF and the Horde's cause and really gives us a good foundation to stand and fight upon. You've expressed your discontent with us, and that's okay, but no need to belabor it any more. Whatever you or anyone else might say about us won't change our core values as a guild, and whether you believe it or not, most of us prefer playing with HSF's values. I like to say that HSF is more than just a guild, it's a way to play the game and I, for one, am very glad I somehow stumbled into the guild a couple years ago.
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