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I'm going to put in my piece as a person who has run a guild on Maelstrom since Vanilla and who does NOT RP.
1) Jehsa: Welcome to Maelstrom. Glad to see someone new on the forums who can speak clearly and debate without getting mad or trolling. Hopefully I'll run into you somewhere on the realm.
Regarding <Horde Strike Force>, I can't really blame Gug for responding with a gruff: "it's our way; if you don't like it, don't join us." Throughout the years they've been the focus of much ridicule; whether due to their policies, their zerg battle style, or the complete inability of many of their players to pvp(or pve) competently. Guilds of that size also attract drama more easily. Despite all that, they have done more to foster World PvP on Maelstrom than anyone else(all respect due to Invictus, Manamonster, etc...HSF and Gug win based on longevity if nothing else). They definitely make it interesting to level alliance alts.
Bottom line: Gug has formed a guild that has both endured and made a positive impact on Maelstrom. I give him all due respect for that.
2) Gug: I think what worries Jehsa the most(if I'm reading his posts correctly) is the statement by you that the RP values of your guild take precedence over the RP rules set up by the people organizing any particular event. Yes, you try to abide by the rules whenever possible, but I can understand the worry that you'd ruin an event if their direction didn't fit the HSF's. If the rules and scenarios are clearly defined in advance, can you as a guild decide ahead of time if they fit with the HSF goals? If they don't then can you not go to the event in a guild capacity? To go anyway, when you know in advance you're going to be breaking the rules, would amount to an intentional griefing of other RP'ers. Enough people grief RP'ers as it is...let's not add RP'ers themselves to the list of griefers. We want to encourage people to organize events on Maelstrom, not abuse them til they quit in frustration.
The clarification that you aren't going to grief the RP of others in the pursuit of your RP is all Jehsa seems to be asking(feel free to correct me if I interpreted your posts inaccurately Jehsa). That's a fair question to ask considering your post.
we will not put the RP rules of an event over our own RP rules
You know what? I drafted like four various replies and really good posts. I realized how much time I am wasting on this and not forwarding the project of World level RP and RP driven PVP that all of us that came into the server as a group on BOTH sides said we were giong to do.
So I'm just going to go with what I like to think is the best ideal, ang get back to doing things and not wasting energy on something that can't make progress. Sadly as in all cases in history, there is always a faction that hates change. So leaving it to one of my favorite quotes...
"“If we could change ourselves, the tendencies in the world would also change. As a man changes his own nature, so does the attitude of the world change towards him. … We need not wait to see what others do.”
or more siimply...
"Be the change you want to see...."
Let me know how I can help in any way, Senoj.
I'm going to put in my piece as a person who has run a guild on Maelstrom since Vanilla and who does NOT RP.
My apologies. For some odd reason this post was not on when I replied above to Gug.
I want to konw that the players (not characters) are going to be okay. Have I seen it yes... but when your GL stands up and says you won't to someone that doesn't know you.... sorry but it makes one ask questions. The statement and others that say people (not characters) can't talk like we are right now out of character Zanguna, and his refusal to do so in order to clear this up is a bit disturbing and unsettling. I want to know the people I play with are there to play and have fun and a good group (both sides) not there to grief others game.
If it's like you say, they were the under dog, then they shouldn't want ANYONE to go through that. I think the ones I have met, played with, and forum posted with (as they have gone OOC) are those people. Hence I am confused why Gug says they aren't and won't talk OOC and won't play with rules of engagement and battle conditions. We BG with them... what's so weird about the idea?
Wow, this escalated overnight.
Far be it from me to ask anyone do play a game in a way they do not want to. I am just not that guy.
I see RP as laid out plan, my involvement, and roll of the dice deciding what happens. But, that is just me, and is how I have seen RP in general for most of my life.
I am trying to be a DM for the Server, accepting that there is a non tabletop based human element in which to account for.
Gug is the DM of his guild and should be. When we can work together I am sure it will be fun. If we cannot because I cannot meet the conditions of HSF RP, I will still have fun.
All I ask is for a OOC "Gentleman's Agreement" that when I create an event and publicly announce it on this forum, anyone who does not agree with it, please let me know ahead of time that you will not be attending. I also ask that people who know about the event please not purposely grief the event. I share a lot of information about whens and wheres.
I am not here to mess with your fun. Pay me the same respect, please.
Also note: The above has not been an issue. However, on both sides of the coin there is opportunity to strike a large group if you wanted to.
I have had great support on both sides. Right now I need it. I am well aware of my position, having to ask other guilds to help and am very thankful for the support I have gotten. I hope to make it a regular event. My goal was to arrange two guilds that would not need troop support from the server. But, would always accept it. People losing ambition in leveling another toon, or just in the project itself made me come here to see if I could find interest beyond the project
I will keep making events, and will continue to do so as long as there is an interest. When/if it constantly becomes just myself and handful of Horde against a solid brick wall of Alliance. I will have to adjust my plan.
I will not however only create events that work within the constructs of a single mindset to gain support (I will always accept suggestions). You may even find that I am going to be more in a position to put the Horde in a bad spot to fight out of just to help with the story.
If need be I will have to search other servers for similar mindsets as my own. I will accept the responsibility of not asking here before I came over and apologize to the people that came over with me.
I am Horde, I fight in the name of the Horde. However, my goal is to expand game PVP to something above group ganking. I see them as non-instanced BG's, which also hold a set of rules and objectives.
Edited by Senojauhsoj on 3/14/2013 5:12 AM PDT
(taking off the RP again for a few seconds)
First, this turned into a REALLY great thread.
Second, I just wanted to address Jehsa's concerns from an HSF perspective that isn't Gug.
I'm a continual role-player. I rarely speak in chat (or the forums) unless it's in "mah troll voice, mon!" I know it can be a challenge to read but that's part of what makes it fun for me. I also know it can make less RP-friendly players cringe and even be outright hostile. But you know what? From the moment I saw HSF sacking Ironforge those many years ago, I knew I'd found a home in World of Warcraft. They didn't care that all I wanted to do was WPVP and Battlegrounds. They didn't care that I never broke characters, no matter how annoying my accent was to read. They help each other. They hold events. They have active leadership that is genuinely concerned with the well-being of the Guild as a whole.
HSF is not for everyone. I get a dozen tells a week asking to join. I always explain the rules "No Alliance Alts on Maelstrom. Be RP-Friendly. Don't be a dbag." Some people can handle that, some can't. Most who ask, however, are quick to enlist.
We're not some Gug-crazed cult and if you think that, you have the wrong idea. Gug set the tone. He calls the shots in battle and laid down the "laws" so to speak, but he's not some Jim Jones figure giving random, meaningless demands or attempting to co-opt the real lives of his guild members.
In other games (DC Universe Online, for example) I'm a member of a cross-faction (Heroes and Villains) Community Council who plans player-sponsored events. In that game, it's possible to communicate cross-faction while in the game. My character has no qualms about that, and uses those tools to make events better and to recruit players from both factions.
Here, on Maelstrom, I won't do that. I joined HSF and if I want to plan an event, I'll help do it here, on the forums, outside of the game and outside of role-play. I have Alliance toons on another server (Silver Hand) that I play with my wife. She also plays Horde on Maelstrom and is a part-time member of HSF. She knows that if she's gonna play on Maelstrom, she "has" to play Horde. And not "has to" in the "someone is forcing me to do this" but in the "we agreed to be honorable about this" way.
In short, while I do understand your concerns, it's not like what you think at all. Not even a little bit. We follow Gug out of respect for bringing us together, for sticking to his guns, for being a capable general and a really nice guy. We all realize our guild isn't for everyone, but at the rate we've been growing lately, it's obviously for a lot of people.
Finally, keep doing what you're doing, bruddah. You're always welcome to call on me to help.
Rest assured Senoj, regardless of our position as a guild, HSF will never interfere with a laid out RP Event. ((Unless it involves us standing by while one of the Horde leaders is attacked or something equally server-threatening)). At the absolute worst we will keep a respectful arms-length distance while people follow whatever RP scenarios have been created. And as has been evident, we will almost certainly have some individuals participate in said RP scenario.
We are honored by the fact you came here Senoj, and Gug hasn't encountered a single person who doesn't support what you trying to do. Let Gug know whenever Gug can help your endeavors, and thanks for your efforts.
Thank you Ghanji.... ;)
That clarification and the way you explained it makes far more sense and is totally reasonable. I love your posts IC and think they add a ton of flavor and RP to things. (It also doesn't hurt I play Horde on Dawnbringer and have a soft spot for Trolls.) It's great reading and hearing from you and many of the other folks in HSF I have had the pleasure to meet an interact with so far.
To be clear... My concerns were never ever about any of your RP styles or choices. My only concern was is there really an issues with people talking to work out dates, times, victory conditions and the things gamers do to make good games? And then that three couldn't be any communication about gaming with players, other than IC. That's not good. If there isn't ... all's good in the world. That doesn't concern alts or whether you post IC or not. It concerns.... okay so friday at 9 pm? who ever gets the sheep in the building first wins? no flying mounts? rock! See you there. As long as we can get that set up..... Go for it. And as along as we can all respect one another and play by what we agree to as players in our "created battleground scenarios" because that is really and truly all they are.
Thank you for taking the time to clear this up for me. Makes a HUGE difference in perspective.
I am begining to think that the suggestion of using the war games feature may be the way to go for things.
Rest assured Senoj, regardless of our position as a guild, HSF will never interfere with a laid out RP Event. ((Unless it involves us standing by while one of the Horde leaders is attacked or something equally server-threatening)).
And rest assured I will never create an event where any Horde (or Alliance) will have to sit back and watch a Leader be slaughtered.
We did add an execution segment to the last event. One reason I did not select Ghanji to be our prisoner, I assumed that would not go over well. Venicide felt he had been executed enough that night, so I stepped in his place (which I had no problem doing).
I''da been happy t' sacrifice mahself fo' de good o' de game, bruddah!
I gots plenny o' monies fo' repairs an' no pride 'bout mah lack o' mad skillz, yo.
Go for it. And as along as we can all respect one another and play by what we agree to as players in our "created battleground scenarios" because that is really and truly all they are.
Thats one of the reasons I simply choose not to take part in these "planned events". Some people YOU run with, lack the "In real life" ability to show others respect. So they dont get mine.
Its great that Senojauhsoj is putting these events together. I hope he keeps it up. Im may even attend one. But it would depend on "who" is setting the rules for the event. Im not walking into a slaughter so that another person can simply use the event to flame me on forums the next day.
And if you are not used to people speaking "In character" all the time. You have not been around role players very long. I have for years. Everything from Dungeon and Dragon events at major venues at Gen Con and Origins to LARP events at Winter Fantasy.
Even a lot of great actors like Jim Carrey and Will Ferrell stay "In character" the whole time they make a movie. You make it sound like they have mental issues. In fact...You sure like to flip a lot of things around and make it sound like something else.
I think you are a smart and intelligent person. And you have some really great post...But you kinda seem like a dama queen to me. Especially the way you responded to every answer Gug laid out to you.
Edited by Globbersnot on 3/14/2013 9:00 AM PDT
But it would depend on "who" is setting the rules for the event. Im not walking into a slaughter so that another person can simply use the event to flame me on forums the next day.
I try very hard to create something that is fair for both sides. Last week there was only supposed to be a Horde Prisoner and Alliance was going to play defense the entire time. Adding a second was the Alliance's idea to give them a purpose other than just turtle around one player and try to outlast. To my surprise it worked out quite well.
Rest assure I am not trying to lead anyone to slaughter for the sake of my own enjoyment. I hate to lose, hate it. However, I am adult enough to know someone has to and in this game who ever has the numbers and organization will usually win. Numbers is one thing I have a hard time controlling.
So far the Alliance has grabbed a hold of this and have mounted pretty decent groups. From what people have been saying to me I can be comfortable to say that we will always be facing 25+ Alliance.
I try not to have to lean on HSF (though you guys do have the numbers). However, being new to the server when I try to drum up interest in General or Trade, there is very little of it to be had. HSF and others here have been very willing to help and that is appreciated, more than you know. That being said should the Horde have a low turn out then it will appear as if the lambs are being lead to slaughter.
Last week went in that direction. The Horde was stomped pretty well by the Alliance in the terms that we did not even get our prisoner freed before Sorrow made it back to camp. There could be many reason for this, however I think you would be hard pressed to find any gloating or flaming in this forums about anything that happened last Friday. I am not even sure any Alliance posted anything other than a RP recount of events. I have a feeling this is due to some respect for what I am trying to do to try and keep people interested who may have the same outlook you have of attending.
This week is pretty straight forward. 2 Hours of fighting for the Horde to spill into Dun Morogh through South Gate Pass the only rule is No Flying. Would love to see you there if you would like to check it out. See if it is your cup of tea.
let me say this i like and respect hsf in there rp game play but i feel folks should do as the feel
and im sure gug is aware some folks do play alliance with in hsf cause he cant check all 900+ members i come to the forums to poke certian hsf members and other horde for a resson. there has to be a good guy and bad with out hsf and other we wouldnt have other guilds to fight. and out of respect for the rp event we are trying not to boast or brag and show some honor so hsf will come out .now with that being said keep attacking us in game we love it we are trying to build a great alliance guild so hsf and other can have a foe . now i know hsf has been around for ever at one point i was a part of it , and thats why i know have a score to clear with gug not a personal one but in game rp wise . i hope the horde show up in strong numbers casue we will . hope to see hsf at the event
Edited by Sorrôw on 3/14/2013 11:01 AM PDT
Sometime I wanna smack dat rolly-polly Panda inna back wit' mah daggahs ... and den he says sumpin' like dat an' I start t' t'ink, mebbee he alrigh' aftah all.
I jes' wan' ya t' know dat alla de Forum-Bantah aside, I like knowin' y'all out dere, givin' de Horde a run fo' dey money.
Lemme jes' say dat if yah don't try and be ugly an' get personal, yah havva lot bettah chance in gettin' us t' fight den if yah rude 'bout ev'ry lil' t'ing. Sometime it come off like real trollin' wit' a coupla yah guys ovah dere. I get dat dey is some older playahs wit' bad blood, but ain' no reason t' bring dat crap inta de open jes' t' get a rise outta summone.
An' barrin' any weirdness, I'ya be at dis weeks even' an' I'll bring a Feast O' De Pot wit' me!
well troll im trying to understand some of the others ways in game playing. now if some one takes it to heart i cant help it, its not meant to be mean or to offend anyone my goal is to make some one hate my toon not the player . if i give someone a hard time here its becasue i like them and want them to come pvp with us. and ever war has spys and storys of spys. globbersnot is the spy in my story sorry it upsets him but he knows the truth and so do i his info has been helpful.i look foward to seeing you troll i might wave before i kill you or even kill you then wave it depends .either way cant wait to kill more hsf, heck any horde of any guild
Is what I am trying to do breaking some sort of RP element to this server that I was not aware of and foolishly did not ask
you have to have a moderator for things like this, people just dont understand if you didn't it would never work.
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