baffled by squishy tank

so on my priest (not this character) we go up to the first boss in the shado pan monastery, the guy who talks like a troll.

My normal priority is to cast prayer of mending on the tank before the fight and shield him as soon as damage starts, or use prayer of healing if the damage is likely to be aoe.

Anyway, the tank just falls over dead, i mean like one shot before i can even get the shield on.

So the three dps and i kill the boss, quite easily actually. The tank sounds surprised we were able to do it. So we rezz him and move on.

Next room, same thing happens. He gets one shot to about 10% and then dies. The rest of us clear the room, everyone has full health, i have full mana bars.

I say politely, "Either you are really squishy or i am just terrible."

He yells in all caps how terrible i am for a minute or two. The dps say, "Dude, she healed us through the boss without you, she is not terrible."

I inspect him, his gear is awful but i've seen worse, he has some 320 level stuff.

We vote kick him, get a new tank, and proceed to finish the instance just fine.

Now i realize, at this moment he is probably over on the tank forums complaining about the healer he had. I guess i could have had the shield up when he pulled, but it's never been necessary to do anything like that before, and i have healed my way through mists on this monk and on a resto druid.

Is there some special mechanic on that boss?
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15 Human Mage
If a tank dies that fast it's not your fault. There's no special mechanic on that boss that would one shot him on the pull. Just out of curiosity, what class was the tank?
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90 Blood Elf Priest
Agreed, there is nothing that should be one-shotting tanks. If you were able to keep the DPS up without a problem, the tank was just plain bad...having cata gear would have been a big problem, and it's just as likely that he wasn't using any sort of cooldowns either - more than likely, the "it's the healer's job to keep me alive" mentality.

Players like that generally wouldn't post in the tanking forums. And on the off chance they did, they'd get ripped apart.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
I inspect him, his gear is awful but i've seen worse, he has some 320 level stuff.

That'd be gear from last expac. As in, green beginner gear from last expac.

03/11/2013 07:33 PMPosted by Rotai
He yells in all caps how terrible i am for a minute or two.

I don't think I've even once met someone who did this and was also good.
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90 Tauren Druid
Yep that gear would do it all right
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
Had problems like this, but sometimes they can have awesome gear and they're specced wrong or they are just terrible in general.
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Are you sure he was even in the right spec? Or maybe he didn't have his correct stance/presence up?

I started tanking on my Druid a few days ago, not really knowing what I was doing, and I had absolutely zero survivability issues. Shado-Pan Monastery was the first instance I did on him and it went just fine, I wasn't taking too much damage. Your tank must have been doing something extremely wrong, and his awful gear was probably it, though I'm baffled as to how he could have even queued for the instance in gear that bad.

Possibly he had a good set of dps gear that gave him high enough ilvl, and then switched to low level tank gear for some reason?
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90 Human Priest
Was it a monk tank? That happens to them all the time. It's either a bug or blizz needs to fix monk tanks.
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Wait.... 320 gear not 420?

420 is about right for entering heroics in MOP. Well, 437 average is right; which means you could even still have a few 408s (buy these from a vendor in fact, so at level 89+ there is NO reason to have any item lower than 408).

If the tank was rolling in 320s... yeah, that's an issue. By the first zone of pandaville you pass a vendor selling 373. So by level 85 no excuse for even a single item below that.

Shado-pan normal mode I think was at level 87. A vendor in kunlai summit equips you with full 393 iLvls at 87. So the bare minimum for your worst item in your entire gear set in shado-pan normal is 393 (or was it 399).

Tanks are to blame if they go down within the first 5 to 10 GCDs. After that you gotta look into the details... mind you if a tank gets 0 heals for the entire first 10 GCDs they will almost certainly faceplant by the 11th unless they're overgeared for the content.
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Monk tanks take 2 GCDs to get initial active mitigation up. I've never met a boss I WAS GEARED FOR that could down me that fast - even if I had my back to them and had been sitting afk.

All MOP tanks depend heavily on active mitigation but monks especially so. First we gear as DPS with crit and haste, and we're softer than bears. Then we have to work shuffle, purifying stagger, guard, expell harm, AND chasing little green powerup balls that spawn around us (that my tooltip says only I can see just to make sure I look crazy to everyone else).

So monks not used to working all 5 of these in will be spikey AND soft...

But it still takes more than a 1 shot to get me no matter how bad my play is that day... ;-)
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
Take a look at Recount/Skada. If the tank is high on dps AND the dps in the party is good, it can be a clue that your tank is spending their resources more on trying to out-dps the party instead of spending it on mitigating damage.

I've been in LFRs and LFGs where I've seen tanks feel squishy because they were caring more about topping dps than being a tank. It's incredibly obvious in fights like the Wind Lord. The only times I've seen tanks high on dps AND not be squishy is when they've out-geared the instance.
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90 Undead Monk
Sometimes I enjoy having squishy tanks keeps me awake while healing.
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90 Draenei Shaman
pertaining to monk tanks:

there are two types of Monk tanks.
1. the tank that rolled a monk thinking "cool, a new way to tank"
2. the player who rolled a monk and thought "maybe I should try tanking"

Either of those is fine. Frankly we need more tanks, but the first type will generally be waaay less 'squishy' because cool down management, damage mitigation, and overall mob control is something they already know. Anyway, that is why I think there aren't many 'average' monk tanks. They are either good or terribad.

Unfortunately, there is almost no way to offer helpful advice in a random heroic or LFR that doesn't make you sound like a jerk. Sad, but true. There are too many players out there yelling in all caps about everyone else's crappy play. This makes everyone a little more defensive and less receptive to even well intentioned help.
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