Race Class Restrictions (Yes again)

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90 Night Elf Druid
4940
AAAAAAAAnd DERAILED. Thanks. I wanted to keep discussing.
90 Worgen Druid
11800


...
HEY A DISTRACTION!
/DISTRACTED!

HEY A DISTRACTION!

Waaaait a minute.
This is worse than the time with the Bagel, the fire extinguisher and the octopus.

The what?
AAAAAAAAnd DERAILED. Thanks. I wanted to keep discussing.

Sorry...
/exit
Edited by Fangry on 3/19/2013 8:57 PM PDT
90 Tauren Paladin
9060
Yes. Making you Human again.

Keeping in mind that a Priest uses the Holy Light as if it was a torch guiding them through a cave. A Paladin is the actual torch. They are the holy embodiment of the Light. Which is why Forsaken can't be Paladins. The pain would hurt too much. Kind of defeats the purpose because the Light cures diseases and curses. Forsaken is incurable.

Additions: In my opinion, Draenei could actually become Druids. Their way of life just seems to fit in with Druid lore.


Then they do it like they do Forsaken Priests.

In lore, all Forsaken Priests are Shadow. But for game purposes, they have Holy trees.

Forsaken Paladins would use "Unholy Light" type spells(already exist in Icecrown). Also Sir Zeliek, who is an Undead Paladin that still uses The Light.

For game purposes they would be Paladins, like Tauren Sunwalkers(Sun Druids) and Blood Elf Blood Knights(Siphoned the light from a Naaru, and later the restored Sunwell, not through the worship of any deity) are Paladins.

Lore Purposes? Gnome Priests are techno-medics. Game Purposes? Priests with holy powers.

The Lore doesn't always have to be accurately reflected in the game, as long as a decent explanation can be made to allow it.
Human Death Knights is a lore contradiction??? Correct me if I'm wrong, but was it necessarily a requirement to be dead to become a death knight? Example- Baron Rivendare?

Anyways, I'm all for them opening up classes to all races. While it's apparent why races could not be certain classes at the start, consider that, lore wise, the various races have been mingling/going to war with one another for some time now. Therefore, is it really unreasonable to believe that members of the various races have decided to not always go the traditional path of those before them?

Of course, it's not hard to write into the lore either. Example- Forsaken Paladins. The Lich King, while again a Paladin, is also bathed in the flame of the Life-Binder. As a result, undead across all Azeroth can slowly feel the warmth of the light again. Over time, the Forsaken, working with members of the Argent Crusade/Blood Elves/Tauren realize that they can actually harness the light in hopes of bringing the Forsaken into a new age that's not all doom and gloom.

Not a serious attempt at lore or anything, just food for thought.
90 Night Elf Druid
4940
Yes. Making you Human again.

Keeping in mind that a Priest uses the Holy Light as if it was a torch guiding them through a cave. A Paladin is the actual torch. They are the holy embodiment of the Light. Which is why Forsaken can't be Paladins. The pain would hurt too much. Kind of defeats the purpose because the Light cures diseases and curses. Forsaken is incurable.

Additions: In my opinion, Draenei could actually become Druids. Their way of life just seems to fit in with Druid lore.


Then they do it like they do Forsaken Priests.

In lore, all Forsaken Priests are Shadow. But for game purposes, they have Holy trees.

Forsaken Paladins would use "Unholy Light" type spells(already exist in Icecrown). Also Sir Zeliek, who is an Undead Paladin that still uses The Light.

For game purposes they would be Paladins, like Tauren Sunwalkers(Sun Druids) and Blood Elf Blood Knights(Siphoned the light from a Naaru, and later the restored Sunwell, not through the worship of any deity) are Paladins.

Lore Purposes? Gnome Priests are techno-medics. Game Purposes? Priests with holy powers.

The Lore doesn't always have to be accurately reflected in the game, as long as a decent explanation can be made to allow it.
You realize you're breaking Lore and game mechanics just so one race can become a class, right?
90 Human Warlock
11575
On the topic of worgen paladins, it's not that they're impossible because of the curse/immunity to the curse, it's because back when paladins were being formed and trained, the Gilneans most likely kicked them out and refused to let them teach because they were xenophobes and despised any outside cultural influences.

It's possible that given time the worgen may be able to train paladins now that they're better about the xenophobe thing, but being a paladin takes years off offscreen training just to get tot he point players can pick them up, add to the fact worgen players are in a time bubble, it's unlikely we'll see them anytime soon
Edited by Reshuv on 3/19/2013 9:09 PM PDT
90 Night Elf Druid
4940
Human Death Knights is a lore contradiction??? Correct me if I'm wrong, but was it necessarily a requirement to be dead to become a death knight? Example- Baron Rivendare?

Anyways, I'm all for them opening up classes to all races. While it's apparent why races could not be certain classes at the start, consider that, lore wise, the various races have been mingling/going to war with one another for some time now. Therefore, is it really unreasonable to believe that members of the various races have decided to not always go the traditional path of those before them?

Of course, it's not hard to write into the lore either. Example- Forsaken Paladins. The Lich King, while again a Paladin, is also bathed in the flame of the Life-Binder. As a result, undead across all Azeroth can slowly feel the warmth of the light again. Over time, the Forsaken, working with members of the Argent Crusade/Blood Elves/Tauren realize that they can actually harness the light in hopes of bringing the Forsaken into a new age that's not all doom and gloom.

Not a serious attempt at lore or anything, just food for thought.
I'm pretty sure no one wants a rehashed expansion just to fit a couple race/class combos.
90 Tauren Paladin
9060
Human Death Knights is a lore contradiction??? Correct me if I'm wrong, but was it necessarily a requirement to be dead to become a death knight? Example- Baron Rivendare?

Anyways, I'm all for them opening up classes to all races. While it's apparent why races could not be certain classes at the start, consider that, lore wise, the various races have been mingling/going to war with one another for some time now. Therefore, is it really unreasonable to believe that members of the various races have decided to not always go the traditional path of those before them?

Of course, it's not hard to write into the lore either. Example- Forsaken Paladins. The Lich King, while again a Paladin, is also bathed in the flame of the Life-Binder. As a result, undead across all Azeroth can slowly feel the warmth of the light again. Over time, the Forsaken, working with members of the Argent Crusade/Blood Elves/Tauren realize that they can actually harness the light in hopes of bringing the Forsaken into a new age that's not all doom and gloom.

Not a serious attempt at lore or anything, just food for thought.


Also agreed. Why can't a human be trained by Cenarius as a Druid?

I mean, anyone that shows an aptitude and a serious interest should be able to be trained in any aspect of battle.

Draenei Warlocks? Why not? For lore purposes, they'd be just as shunned as normal Warlocks of other races(basically seen as a necessary evil). It's not like they would instantly become slaves of the Burning Legion. Night Elf Warlocks? The Shen'dralar siphoned the magics from a bound demon for thousands of years. Gnome Paladins? They've spent enough time living with the Dwarves and allied with the Humans, who's to say a few haven't become interested in learning more about the light to the point where they become devoted servants and learn the necessary skills to become Defenders of The Light?

http://wow.dragonisle.org/gnomedruid.jpg

http://treehealsgowoosh.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/gnomepaladin-from-maintankadin.png

http://www.freewebs.com/noobulusprime/photos/Random%20Tier%205/Draenei%20Warlock.JPG

http://www.freewebs.com/noobulusprime/Tier%204/Nelf%20Warlock.bmp

http://wow.gamersmafia.com/storage/images/0032/673_undead-paladin-ligthbringer.jpg
90 Troll Shaman
0
Jeez, there's a lot of lore butchering going on in this thread...

Okay first off, no, Forsaken priests are not all shadow according to the lore. The undead can wield the Light just like anyone else; the only difference is that contact with the Light causes them the sensation of pain. When using the Light or having the Light used on them, ala undead tanks, an undead feels as though they've been set on fire. However, this pain is purely sensation; there is no physical damage unless the spell's original intent was to deal damage, like Smite. Because of this, most undead priests prefer to use shadow magic because it doesn't have this drawback, but Light-using priests do exist among the Forsaken (you can even find one in Dominance Hold), and undead tanks inevitably have to deal with a lot of it. As the Ebon Blade says, "suffer well."

Secondly, the vast, vast majority of race/class restrictions have absolutely nothing to do with impossibility, the only exception likely being undead druids. Instead, they almost all come down to culture. Not every race is interested in every class. Blood elves, for example, love being in control, as they are as mages, priests, and warlocks (arcane and Light magic tap directly into mindless power sources, requiring no intermediary, and warlocks enslave their demonic minions), and aren't interested in the slightest by druidic or shamanistic magic, both of which gain their abilities from greater powers that could just as easily take them away or even punish them if the powers are misused.

The same thing applies to the worgen. The Light wouldn't cure them, or they'd never have come about; Gilneans worship the Light the same as the humans of Stormwind, they even have their own cathedral. Worgen aren't paladins because although the worgen follow the teachings of the Light, they're just not that devoted to it. Being a paladin requires a certain degree of virtue which Gilneans generally don't care to uphold. Besides which, the Gilneans never had paladins in the first place; paladins were a combination of Stormwind and Lordaeron's combined efforts, and Gilneas withdrew from the Alliance when the Order of the Silver Hand was still in its early days.
90 Tauren Paladin
9060
You realize you're breaking Lore and game mechanics just so one race can become a class, right?


How is it breaking the lore?

Forsaken Priests are all Shadow, based on Lore. So why not "Unholy Warriors of the Shadow"?

People get too caught up with the in game class "Paladin" being "Holy warrior of The Light".

Tauren Paladins are not "Holy Warriors of The Light" in lore. They are basically plate wearing Sun Druids. Blood Knights don't worship The Light. They siphon it from the Sunwell(previously the Naaru that let itself be captured so that the Blood Elves would have Paladins in order to help fight against the Burning Legion in a huge Xanatos Gambit).

All Paladins are in game are Magical Warriors. They wear plate, carry shields or big honking weapons, and use some form of magic to heal allies and harm foes. What the source of that magic is is largely dependent on the lore(The Sun, The Sunwell, The Light, Naaru Blessings, etc).
90 Tauren Paladin
9060
Ah, found it.

Forsaken priests

Forsaken who once followed the tenets of the Holy Light altered their philosophy upon their transformation. Most forsaken have abandoned religion, just as they believe it abandoned them. Some still adhere to their old faiths, such as the Holy Light. Priests of the Holy Light in particular struggle to reconcile the philosophy that guided their life with their unfortunate new condition. Some balance their old beliefs with their new forms, but most forsaken priests belong to The Cult of Forgotten Shadow. Lost and hurt, these priests founded a new religion based on a self-centered version of their former faith. This philosophy centers around self-empowerment and a desire to balance life with death. While they can no longer use the Holy Light, and have since learned how to use the shadow; the priests teach that there must be a balance between light and shadow, and members must learn the Light as well, but never forget they were born from the shadow.


So yeah, Forsaken Priests arent ALL Shadow, they're just mostly Shadow with a handful that still try and commune with the Light in an effort to strike a balance between the two.
90 Night Elf Druid
4940
Forsaken Paladins would use "Unholy Light" type spells(already exist in Icecrown). Also Sir Zeliek, who is an Undead Paladin that still uses The Light.
This is breaking game play mechanics. Draenei don't use Naaru Light.
90 Tauren Paladin
9060
03/19/2013 09:27 PMPosted by Glosy
Forsaken Paladins would use "Unholy Light" type spells(already exist in Icecrown). Also Sir Zeliek, who is an Undead Paladin that still uses The Light.
This is breaking game play mechanics. Draenei don't use Naaru Light.


Yeah, they do.

The draenei visited many worlds and explored much of the known cosmos in their quest to find safe harbor. Still, a hell-bent Kil'jaeden would not give up his pursuit, sending his agent Talgath to hunt them down. Meanwhile, the enigmatic naaru race blessed the draenei with Light-given knowledge and power. The naaru explained that there were other forces in the cosmos that would stand against the Burning Legion. One day the naaru would forge them into a single unstoppable army of the Light. Deeply affected by the naaru's words, the draenei vowed to honor the Light and uphold the naaru's altruistic ideals.


Also, explain how it's breaking gameplay mechanics WHEN IT ALREADY EXISTS IN GAME.

Sir Zeliek = Undead Paladin that uses The Light

Mobs in Icecrown = Reanimated Paladin skeletons that use Unholy versions of Paladin abilities.

THEY EXIST IN GAME.
Edited by Pallymcveal on 3/19/2013 9:34 PM PDT
90 Night Elf Druid
4940
You're misreading my post.

Pretend I'm a Draenei:

/target Glosy
/cast Naaru Light

Breaking game mechanics.
90 Tauren Paladin
9060
You're misreading my post.

Pretend I'm a Draenei:

/target Glosy
/cast Naaru Light

Breaking game mechanics.


See now you're mixing up Lore with In Game.

In Lore, Draenei use Naaru Light. In Game, they use Holy Light, because it would be too much effort to rename all the spells for every race/class combo.

Which is why Tauren Paladins use "Holy" abilities instead of "Some hoo haa Sun Thingamagummy".

So yeah, Forsaken Paladins IN LORE would use Unholy Light. IN GAME, all their spells and abilities would be the same as every other Paladin.

It's like priests. Do Troll Priests get their powers from The Light? No. They get them from their Loa Gods. Night Elves? Elune. Gnomes? Technology. But for in game purposes, all their spells are "Holy This" and "Handwave of Light".
85 Troll Death Knight
14445
Troll Paladins.. I mean.. Trolladins!
Why? because we have tusks that's why.
Sometimes when rasta's become one with Ja they claim that they see a light.
Troll paladins could harness this light to fuel their pally powers!
90 Undead Hunter
11365
Lore should never, ever be more important than game mechanics.

I'd rather a large variety of race/class combos than restrictions to please RPers and their lore. If I had my way I'd let every race be every class, it would add a ton of variety to the game.
90 Tauren Paladin
9060
Troll Paladins.. I mean.. Trolladins!
Why? because we have tusks that's why.
Sometimes when rasta's become one with Ja they claim that they see a light.
Troll paladins could harness this light to fuel their pally powers!


Zandalari Freethinkers!

From the old ZG Paladin gear, apparently Trolladins actually existed at one point in time.
90 Night Elf Druid
4940
Funny because you renamed Holy Light to Unholy Light. Which is breaking GAME mechanics, not Lore. Also, Aren't Paladins Holy? You couldn't go naming Unholy Presence to Holy Presence. It defeats the purpose. Paladins are indeed, Holy. Forsaken can't be Paladins because they cannot be Holy.

Link some lore for Forsaken Paladins and maybe I'll rethink my stance.
48 Orc Monk
5785
I have been for the removal of class/race restictions for quite some time now...Years in fact.

I would love to be a Gnome Paladin, hunter, shaman.

I'd love to be a Goblin Monk.

I'd love to be a lot of combos. But as of yet, it's been a "Well, I'll settle for this, I guess."
Eventually, it gets boring. We all have our favorite races. We all have our favorite classes.
And so many times, neither the two shall meet. So we settle.

I only see the opening of all classes to all races as a good thing. Something that would not only keep people playing longer and more often, but could very well be the one thing that bring some once long time players that are now gone, back to the game.

Lore was broken and rewritten on so many occassions and retrofit into the story.
It's not like you don't see a lot of those combinations already ingame by NPCs.
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