Stop making gear matter....

90 Pandaren Warrior
11420
Normally I dont come onto these forums to vent or complain, but PVP gear has been a thorn in my side since wotlk...

The current system forces undergeared players to "play" with all the other pvpers.. and by "play" i mean be free HKs for the first 2 weeks of gear farming...

THIS IS NOT EXCITING PVP...

A fresh 90 literally can NOT kill any player that has pvp resil and power

veterans dont feel accomplished over these kills, new players get demoralized and quit...

What is the solution?
Better access to intro pvp gear. (yes there is crafted set, but on my small timey mom and pop server buying the entire set will cost you close to 10k and still leave you with atleast another week of hardcore grinding to fill in all the small pieces)

Player verse Player needs to be on absolute even ground at all times otherwise players seriously looking for battle and challenge will move onto games like League or counterstrike where skill outshines time invested.

Thats not saying time invested wouldnt net rewards... but better skilled players will still dominate battlegrounds through better play (LOS, heal jukes, etc) that they learn from months of pvp.

I move that there should be freely accessible pvp gear to fresh 90s, furthermore there should never been more than 2 sets of pvp gear per expansion...If blizzard insist on rewarding veteran players then the second teir of pvp gear should be only marginally better and signified mainly through aesthetics.

If blizzard continues to reward their veterans at the expense of new players Warcraft pvp will always be a joke in the competitive community
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20945
stop trying to be rambo in blues and greens.. you can't solo someone who has gear but you can sure kill them.

being under-geared is the best time to learn whether you can be an asset to your team or if you will really always be a hindrance; if you are able to do what you can to assist your team, to help add control or pressure while not trying to act like a superhero, you might actually be useful.

If you can't, you might as well afk in the graveyard because you're just going to keep getting sent back there. Even when you have gear.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
8925
Player verse Player needs to be on absolute even ground at all times otherwise players seriously looking for battle and challenge will move onto games like League or counterstrike where skill outshines time invested.


If people want to play an FPS, they should play an FPS. I think it's a little unrealistic to compare two different genres of games.

WoW is an MMO, and the gear grind is an integral part of what keeps the wheels turning. It's a necessary part of the game. All of the other MMO's out there which try to provide a level playing field are wastelands because people get bored too quickly.
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90 Undead Mage
1935
Malev gear is pretty easy to get & will make you competitive for several months into S13. Stop looking for a handout & stop blaming gear. There are legitimate reasons why the progression model is far superior to alternative like gear normalization, which would bring with it some nasty unintended consequences (namely removing the incentive to win for most players).

The problem is that the WoW player base is getting more & more entitled... they want rewards with no effort. Blizzard has already bent over backwards for these players & yet they still keep complaining.
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90 Pandaren Rogue
10685
but i like ganking people with 304k hp
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90 Pandaren Warrior
11420
Malev gear is pretty easy to get & will make you competitive for several months into S13. Stop looking for a handout & stop blaming gear. There are legitimate reasons why the progression model is far superior to alternative like gear normalization, which would bring with it some nasty unintended consequences (namely removing the incentive to win for most players).



Top level pvp players know that all of their opponents will be in full elite pvp gear and perfectly enchanted over 2200 rating...yet they continue to pvp and from what ive seen pvp exclusively...

People that truely enjoy pvp are people that enjoy challenge gear is simply a time barrier established by titles popular more than a decade ago

PVP is PLAYER VS PLAYER anything that gets in the way of that should be removed
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90 Dwarf Shaman
8925
Malev gear is pretty easy to get & will make you competitive for several months into S13. Stop looking for a handout & stop blaming gear. There are legitimate reasons why the progression model is far superior to alternative like gear normalization, which would bring with it some nasty unintended consequences (namely removing the incentive to win for most players).



Top level pvp players know that all of their opponents will be in full elite pvp gear and perfectly enchanted over 2200 rating...yet they continue to pvp and from what ive seen pvp exclusively...

People that truely enjoy pvp are people that enjoy challenge gear is simply a time barrier established by titles popular more than a decade ago

PVP is PLAYER VS PLAYER anything that gets in the way of that should be removed


The difference being those players are an elite handful that love Arena.

Most people aren't queuing random BG's because they LOVE IT. They are queuing because they need gear or want to get the daily done.

If you woke up tomorrow and the only people who queued for BG's were those that just wanted to PVP, you'd be hard pressed to get a queue to consistently pop.

This is a more apples vs. oranges comparison than your OP where you compare WoW to an FPS.
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90 Human Paladin
8070
My friend dinged 90 2 days ago, under 300k health. Definitely was going to be first target.

We made a group of friends and guildies and started slaughtering BGs.

He was able to purchase his bow the same day.

==

It's your fault you're not geared, not the game. Theres also craftables if you're impatient.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20945
if every pvp game i entered was a heart pounding battle for glory I would gladly wait 30minutes...


And yet most people wouldn't.

Going back to the days that there were 30 minute queues depending on your servers, or the times Blizzard tried implementing/reinforcing various filters and restrictions that ended up increasing queue times.. there was huge complaining. People in general don't want to sit around for 15 minutes, risk getting bored and missing the queue, just so they can get to play for 10 minutes.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
8925
Solution:

Allow players to do a couple of Battleground quests at the start of a new season to earn gear from the last season, last seasons honor set is gone, why not put it to use let people do some battlegroudn orientated quests to earn the gear, return a flag in wsg earn a piece, or cap a node in basin earn a piece, or hold an orb in temple earn a piece, this teaches new players objectives and makes them stronger in pvp in the short term faster.


Or we could just keep using the same system which has worked for the last 12 seasons.
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90 Human Paladin
7720
I did a lot of random dungeons to earn JP to then convert to HP. With guild perks and 120 JP per boss and and a total of, tops, 360 JP per dungeons, it ain't so bad. Sure it may not be fun, but at least there's less frustration and you earn some PVE gear.
Edited by Kimili on 3/10/2013 11:34 AM PDT
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90 Undead Mage
1935
Top level pvp players know that all of their opponents will be in full elite pvp gear and perfectly enchanted over 2200 rating...yet they continue to pvp and from what ive seen pvp exclusively...

People that truely enjoy pvp are people that enjoy challenge gear is simply a time barrier established by titles popular more than a decade ago

PVP is PLAYER VS PLAYER anything that gets in the way of that should be removed
I actually agree with you concerning the top players, but BGs are filled with the bottom players (players that I am much better than & I am pretty average). I play to win but I understand the need for a progression system. Without it most players lose the incentive to win, which in turn makes BGs even worse than they already are (even more players ignoring objectives because winning would no longer matter to them).
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91 Undead Warlock
10985
Most people aren't queuing random BG's because they LOVE IT. They are queuing because they need gear or want to get the daily done.

If you woke up tomorrow and the only people who queued for BG's were those that just wanted to PVP, you'd be hard pressed to get a queue to consistently pop.


That's kinda the point though. They're only doing BGs to satisfy a need. If that need weren't there at all, they wouldn't be playing at all.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
8925
Most people aren't queuing random BG's because they LOVE IT. They are queuing because they need gear or want to get the daily done.

If you woke up tomorrow and the only people who queued for BG's were those that just wanted to PVP, you'd be hard pressed to get a queue to consistently pop.


That's kinda the point though. They're only doing BGs to satisfy a need. If that need weren't there at all, they wouldn't be playing at all.


That's the point I am trying to make.

There are necessary evils in the system, but most people are wholly incapable of understanding it.
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69 Undead Rogue
7635
I see this a lot, a new player walks into a random bg with the mindset that randoms are ONLY for undergeared players and that people with full arena gear should not be allowed in.

I know a lot of people that have very good pvp gear and they like to go into random bgs and have fun, by fun I mean not necessarily going for the objective but just to fight. There is nothing wrong with that, it's a random bg, honestly it's up to you how you wish to play.

I do understand that getting full honor gear is a daunting task that can be frustrating to many but, what you need to realize is that doing randoms is not your only option to get this gear. Why not run heroics with friends or guildies? run them and convert all the jps you get to honor, and by the time you get enough honor for all your gear you will most likely have a full pve set as well.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
11420
Sorry but I am not going to give up my time in game because you are sniffling snot tears because "mommy i need it now" is your mentality. If this is the case, I would like to have Hard Mode gear because "mommy i need it now". I would love for you to pick your stupid !@# up and post in their forums to see the backlash.

GO AWAY we dont like you nor do we care what game you play. We should stop being nice and trying to understand pathetic posts like this and simply just shut it down.


your lack of social skills disgust me.. were trying to have a real conversation here... its not mommy i need it now its closer to steroid regulation in baseball... why give an unfair advantage to anyone e-sports are sports and need to be equal on all fronts

people that insist wow pvp will die with gear normalization dont understand nor want true competition...

I understand you can easily obtain the gear in a week... but WHY even have one week of unfairness... it turns off new comers and alienates veterans that take a season or two off
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