MM's AOE

100 Orc Hunter
8890
I have a great idea for MM aoe dmg guys(or i think it is lol), So since hunter's mark is now baseline Id like them to remake "marked for death" into a MM aoe talent. It would go something like this :

Marked for Death Level 90 passive

When using Multishot the hunter has a 20 percent chance to activate Marked for Death. When activated Hunter's Mark Spreads to all targets in Multishots range. The dmg of Multishot is increased by 15 percent and now applies a bleed doing 11,000 dmg stacking up to 3 times. for a total of 33,345 dmg over 12 seconds. This ability can only activate every 30 seconds
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90 Night Elf Hunter
15970
The issue i see here, spreading hunters mark to all targets will increase dmg against each target by 5%. Increasing multi shots dmg by 15% (not to mention on crit multi shots focus cost is reduced by 50% and gets a 30% dmg buff for MM already) plus such a strong bleed, plus 5% bonus dmg for all targets due to the debuff, would make having 2 or 3 hunters in group op, esp if the other 2 hunters are sv, as then when this proced, survival hunters could open up for even more dmg, that or if the bleed was high enough, marks would be mandatory for raiding, which some hunters would love, but number of us enjoy BM and sv, and would miss these specs a lot.
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100 Orc Hunter
8890
Well reduce the dmg on the bleed, but as of right now and from everything im reading survival and MM are very close in single target dmg and Surv blows MM away in aoe, this would bring the two on par with each other. If MM pulls ahead because of it then We need a slight buff to Surv's single target. As far as bm, its a bad raid spec in the current fights as there is a lot of target switching. But to make it viable but a...idk (infected wounds) dot with Beast cleave
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90 Night Elf Hunter
15970
MM atm pulls better aoe dps than BM, better single target dps than SV, but worse single than bm and worse AOE than SV. The reason MM isn't used in raiding is due to SV being superior in aoe fights and BM being superior in single target fights, that and SV and BM work well on the same reforge priority system, where as Marks benefits from haste enough to make haste more valuable than mastery. People can run in BM and SV with out having to reforge/regem, enabling them to swap specs as needed with no major dps loss. If you were to get the current end game heroic gear, Marks is siming to pull ahead of BM single target already, but with currently accessible gear, hunters are sticking with the 2 specs that have cooperative reforges.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
15970
Yes, BM is gimped alot in ToT, some mechanic buffs dont aply to pets, and it hurts on target switching. Thing is, if its an aoe fight, sv does better, if a fight doesnt gimp bm, hunters can pull better single target in it, and the two work well together.

Expecting all 3 specs to be viable is difficult to produce, they work differently and honestly, hunters are in a rare position in which all 3 specs are acceptable in raiding, provided it isnt end game heroic progression, then you want to min/max. Arcane mages are the way to go in raiding, fire is rng dependent and frost isn't as strong (could be wrong, i don't play my mage much) With rogue you want to be combat or assassination, each having an edge on one fight or another, Frost dks are doing better on cleave fights than unholy. Blizzard wants some specs to be better in certain areas than others, at least thats the trend we are seeing.
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100 Orc Hunter
8890
I understand the cooperative reforges. A lot of the new gear is haste heavy already though, So switching to marks would be easy. I know a lot of people wouldnt wanna do that but at the same time bringing the specs on par with each other should be our goal. As far as the actual dmg output hunters are low. We are a pure dps class and should be able to keep up with anyone.

MM needs buffs to aoe and i think this would be a great way to do that(even without the aoe hunter's mark, just the bleed) Id still like to see hunters mark get a light boost with this talent, maybe 5 percent just so it keeps its original theme, Marking a target for death.

So the main target takes increased dmg and the rest of the targets hit by multi-shot take bleed dmg (on top of regular multi-shot dmg) It would give MM some flavor, set it apart. We could even change it more to add arcane shot or steady shot also apply piercing shots. MM sustained dmg and aoe is the problem. This would help waaay much

Survival, id like to see More Initial explosive shot dmg with the same ticks. As many LnL procs as it gets this would pull them um with MM single target

Bm, I think bm also needs a better aoe set up. Beast cleave was a good idea and i think with TotH its not in a terrible place, but like i said an infected wounds (maybe even rabid disease causing nature dmg) would be good.

Id like to see hunters able to focus on ONE spec and run with it. All Three becoming viable...or at least one spec becoming viable to run with mages. As a pure dps class we need to be near the top
Edited by Inkarran on 3/16/2013 8:05 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Hunter
15970
As to one spec becoming best, arcane mages aren't the best at aoe, Hunters lead the pack in terms of our aoe dps potential. We are the only class that has no dmg reduction for mobility. On Movement heavy fights, a hunter can out perform a mage rather well. Of course, one argument is that hunters aren't a true pure dps class. We are a pet/utility class (as of cata and now mists). We are the class that provides any missing buffs, and we have more means of helping to control or cc or manage a fight than any other class. Yes we aren't at the top of the dps lists, but we are still valuable in raiding for our cc utility, our ability to move with little consequence (we make excellent kiters on garalon for example, and we are arguably the best of the classes if we have a mechanic where someone who isn't a tank needs to kite adds for a mechanic, frost mages do well too, but we got a huge amount of add control capability). Im not sure where warlocks are in the dps charts, but the pet classes are, by the devs intent, not at the top of the charts. Hunters with their advanced level of utility mechanics, are valued for what extra they can do that others can't. Would i like to be at the top, yea, but remember, there are a lot of dps classes, we have a lot of utility, so our dps is a little lower in compensation, just as druids dps is reduced to make up for their being able to fill any role.
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100 Dwarf Hunter
17880
Piercing Shots: Now also affects Multi-Shot

Bam.
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100 Troll Hunter
13590
Piercing Shots: Now also affects Multi-Shot
Bam.


Words can't describe how much yes this invokes.

I actually think the weaker hunters mark spreading is an interesting idea too. It would make dual-hunter groups enticing. Right now, you can see two or three hunters in a 25 man raid group, but I guarantee it's not from the buffs they bring, the utility they provide or the massive chart topping damage. Throwing in a synergy between the hunter specs, so that a marksman hunter would compliment the survival hunters AoE, is a very interesting idea indeed. Reminds me of ICC and designating which hunter would be using the hunters mark glyph (one hunter would maintain hunters mark, which would be more powerful than the others').

Throwing in some sort of infecting wounds pet beast cleave idea? Now we're going somewhere to set up the BM, SV and MM hunters synergy to mesh the best when one of each spec is present. I like it. It would encourage 25 raiding hunters to avoid just all mindlessly speccing survival on 50% of the new encounters in order to serpent spread faceslam multishot.

This synergy concept really helps a few of my own thoughts on the specs right now. I like the idea of all three being very close together. I'm not too big a fan of one being a better role for a niche, such as BM being best single target or SV being best AoE. Especially if, then, SV can still keep pace with BM and MM as single target, but not vice versa. I do, however, like the theory that they're on a standard deviation for play style.

For example, pretend:
SV can do 90k single target and 30k AoE and be super easy to play. BM can do 95k single target and 20k AoE, but is harder to play than SV. MM can do 100k single and 25k AoE, but is exceptionally harder than the other two to execute. Therefore, in reality, you wind up seeing numbers more like SV 85k single, 30k AoE - BM 90k single, 20k AoE - MM 95k single, 20k AoE. The difference that turns the tide in a specs favour isn't the inherent nature of the class itself or the ability of the player, but the circumstance of the encounter (90% of the fight is AoE, SV; 90% of the fight distracts the player, BM; 90% of the fight makes single target burn imperative, MM).

While this is an interesting concept to employ right now, taking it a step further by making all the classes synergize and benefit from each other would make it that much more interesting. Say there's an encounter that makes single target burn imperative, but greatly distracts the player. There's two hunters. Right now, they'd both probably swap to BM. But if BM was going to provide some sort of benefit to the single target potential of a MM hunter, it would be more beneficial to have one of each. This way, one hunter will be BM/SV and the other will be MM/SV and nobody will think either is crazy. I don't know quite what that would be. For an AoE circumstance, it would be the hunter mark AoE spread above.

In any case, interesting theories, but it overcomplicates things a lot. Then other classes that don't have hybrid potentials will be looking towards the same synergy mechanics, and then the Blizzard devs throw eggs at my face and key my car.
Edited by Jademcian on 3/16/2013 6:43 PM PDT
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Piercing Shots: Now also affects Multi-Shot

Bam.


This so much. MM can do decent ish AoE if specd into thrill of the hunt just because of the obscene number of multi-shots that can be chained in a row, but still can't get very close to a SV hunter. (I've gotten about 20 multi shots in a row from TotH procs and bombardment working together).
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100 Orc Hunter
8890
Not that i normally would bump an old thread but id like to know if this is something i should drop in the suggestion box. A couple people like it and ive been working on some numbers, ideas, that pertain to this thread and our aoe for specs (other than survival). Nothing that would make survival not viable by any means, but would level out the playing field for hunters in general
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90 Night Elf Hunter
15970
congrats, you just necroed a thread from 9 days ago. Joking, if its over a patch ago, and the info is completely wrong due to changes, then its a necro. That said, all 3 specs are fairly level in terms of raiding that isn't bleeding edge heroic progression.
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