Death to the Pugs/25man?

90 Troll Priest
13275
Omg don't even get me started with this. As the former recruiter for C88, the logistics of a 25 were an absolute nightmare. We found that even with constant recruiting, it was virtually impossible to stay competitive with 10 mans. People got burnt out from trying.

I detest what Blizz has done to 25 man raiding, it has almost made me quit the game. This Thunderforged gear crap is not even enough of a fix to be called a band-aid.

"Even figuring in disenchanted items, WoWProgress figures the drop rates to be approximately 10% for 10-man and 25% for 25-man" -whoopdedoo!

There is honestly just zero incentive to do 25s. Too much work with no reward.

On that note, hats off to you, Crucial, for sticking with it. I wish you well :) I miss 25s so much.
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90 Draenei Priest
12250
Oh crap forgot about Archon, the other 25m guild =3 Sorry guys! Dont mind me, I usually browse the forums along with Reddit when I'm either waking up, or getting ready for bed. Brain isn't always working at full capacity during those times.

Was sad to hear about c88, but I def understand the challenges. It can be extremely frustrating, especially with how simple it is to get 10 competent people on exodar together vs 25. You had to do what you had to do though, to preserve your sanity =)
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100 Orc Warrior
10845
I've always thought 25s were a cluster!@#$ anyway. With 10s at least you have a chance of your entire raid being on good terms with each other and have a really solid core that works well together. Throw 15 more people into the whole mess and it's hard to keep up with each other and increases the likelihood of feuds between raiders that spill out into guild drama.

I remember stepping into SSC for the first time back in TBC when a few of my super awesome Karazhan/ZA guildmates went into a Highborne pseudo-pug. It was a mess.
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100 Gnome Warrior
15005
Yeah, handling 10 man pugs is one thing. I generally don't pug anymore, as there are always a few people that make me cranky - if we are talking pure and true pugs. And I don't enjoy being cranky :)

Leading a 25 man pug seems like it would be like herding rabid kittens on crack.

My goggles are off to all of you that lead 25 man guilds and raids.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
10845
I remember stepping into SSC for the first time back in TBC when a few of my super awesome Karazhan/ZA guildmates went into a Highborne pseudo-pug. It was a mess.


And for some perspective, I was a Heal!@#$% back then. So much Circle of Healing... So much...
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Pugs are dead because people want and expect bosses to just fall over and give them loot. They don't understand that raiding means working as a team to kill a boss and they give up after a few wipes. They can't handle the frustration and just quit. Wiping on a boss 5 times isn't frustrating. It's supposed to be fun. After wiping on heroic sha 150 times we were still thinking how can we do better? How can we prevent that from happening.

Then you have the cocky people that think they are good but really suck. And aren't open to any polite suggestions. Those are the worst

I'll blame LFR
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
18525
I'll blame LFR


agreed
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90 Blood Elf Priest
0
It truly is a shame how dead 25 mans have become. In my opinion, I think a lot of the raid healing folks, can come at a a bit of a loss with the utility of the AOE heals. Like Hol Priest Sanctuary seems more practical for 25 then 10.

I can understand the teamwork involve with a 10 and proper placement of such a spell to garnish its benefit. Perhaps that why I've seen so much of a push from the people I know to go Disc.
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90 Pandaren Priest
12835
The reason most priests have been forced into disc is for the raid cooldowns. Cooldowns are far and few between in 10mans, much more abundant in 25s. Holy has and always will provide the most throughput out of the two specs, but the necessity for raid cooldowns is what makes disc shine.
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90 Pandaren Priest
18165

But there is a distinctive notice in the lack of 25mans. I mean Blizzard even added an extra boss to TOT, a Titan, that is only available after you defeat Lei-Shen, or TOT(not sure which to be honest) in 25 Player Mode to try to "revive" this play variant.


Actually Ra-den has nothing to do with 25s, you just have to clear in heroic on either difficulty to access him.

Pugs are dead because people want and expect bosses to just fall over and give them loot. They don't understand that raiding means working as a team to kill a boss and they give up after a few wipes. They can't handle the frustration and just quit. Wiping on a boss 5 times isn't frustrating. It's supposed to be fun. After wiping on heroic sha 150 times we were still thinking how can we do better? How can we prevent that from happening.

Then you have the cocky people that think they are good but really suck. And aren't open to any polite suggestions. Those are the worst

I'll blame LFR


Also this. People have no concept of what hard is when it comes to a boss anymore. I mean, "hard" bosses might take, what? 1 or 2 nights of raiding to get down for most guilds? Bosses used to/could take weeks to kill.

Omg don't even get me started with this. As the former recruiter for C88, the logistics of a 25 were an absolute nightmare. We found that even with constant recruiting, it was virtually impossible to stay competitive with 10 mans. People got burnt out from trying.

I detest what Blizz has done to 25 man raiding, it has almost made me quit the game. This Thunderforged gear crap is not even enough of a fix to be called a band-aid.

"Even figuring in disenchanted items, WoWProgress figures the drop rates to be approximately 10% for 10-man and 25% for 25-man" -whoopdedoo!

There is honestly just zero incentive to do 25s. Too much work with no reward.

On that note, hats off to you, Crucial, for sticking with it. I wish you well :) I miss 25s so much.


And this, Ash deserves a lot of credit for doing 99% of the work trying to keep us going as a 25man, sadly it didnt work.
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90 Troll Priest
13275
And this, Ash deserves a lot of credit for doing 99% of the work trying to keep us going as a 25man, sadly it didnt work.


Awww thanks! We all worked hard though.

I miss our raids, fun fun times. Inc nostalgia....Kurt Russell, when the hunter was, in fact, DI'ed, group 1 party chat etc.....
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90 Pandaren Priest
18165
:( I miss all the people who stopped playing, I was thinking about this earlier.
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90 Troll Priest
13275
Same, I think about it a lot. I love the new guild but seriously miss our old sense of community in 88. JB and Kaldra seriously need to play again though. Most of all, we need Muggiee back, how we muddled on without him, I will never know!
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90 Draenei Priest
12250
It honestly has less to do with lfr than the state of this server as far as pug runs are concerned. It's not populated well, and progression is pretty bad.

I mean lfr is to blame for a lot of laziness, esp with new players, but it really has to do with the fact that save for a few guilds... this is just not a raiding server.

It is a lot better elsewhere. Move to a high pop server like Proudmore and things will be different.
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90 Draenei Priest
12250
I do want to thank the guilds that are bumping Exodar up though, and you know who you are. Hopefully that will breathe some life into our little server. Optimistic, but one can hope =)
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90 Blood Elf Priest
0
Move to a high pop server like Proudmore and things will be different.


I've considered this but with lack of funding and a few people tying me to Exodar, that and considering I transfer here back at the start of MOP. Suffice to say I wont be going anywhere anytime soon.

03/18/2013 03:53 PMPosted by Aileana
Actually Ra-den has nothing to do with 25s, you just have to clear in heroic on either difficulty to access him.


Thanks for clearing that up. Among reading everything I could for 5.2 I guess I crossed some knowledge branch for it.

It is the Thunderforged Items that are attempting to revive the format. They evidently have a high drop chance in 25-man than 10-man.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=211074/wowheads-patch-5-2-guide-and-official-patch-notes#new-raid-throne-of-thunder

Apparently in another thread 25-man are more designed to generate more gear than 10 man. And that is really the only incentive for doing it.
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90 Pandaren Priest
18165
Its not a good incentive anymore, for all the issues facing 25s.
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61 Draenei Death Knight
6140
Its not a good incentive anymore, for all the issues facing 25s.


Would a much higher item level be an adequate incentive like back in wrath?
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90 Troll Priest
13275
Would a much higher item level be an adequate incentive like back in wrath?


Yup, despite being in a 10 man myself now, I think 25s should have at the very least a higher item level, perhaps even different loot like it used to be.

I know this opinion is probably not a popular one to have.
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90 Pandaren Priest
18165
03/19/2013 08:04 PMPosted by Ashkatja
Would a much higher item level be an adequate incentive like back in wrath?


Yup, despite being in a 10 man myself now, I think 25s should have at the very least a higher item level, perhaps even different loot like it used to be.

I know this opinion is probably not a popular one to have.


I was fine with the way it was back in wrath as well, you had the choice if you wanted to do both difficulties a week or not. I'd still be ok with 25s having better loot as a 10 man now cause I've always thought 25s were harder, if not mechanics wise(because obviously sometimes 10 is a lot easier) than just....keeping a 25 man roster was harder.
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