Tyrande needs to divorce Malfurion.

It's the only way she will grow as a character.
I'm not saying she should go and find another man, she needs to find her own place, and that will never happen next (figuratively, since the guy is lost in the Emerald Dream with a dragon who transforms into a sexy night elf) to Malfurion. If she gets a chance to show leadership by herself, it might be given to Varian. If she gets to lead her people, the chance might be given to Malfurion and his druids (did she say anything while the Mt yjal incident happened?). Honestly, I dont see her having any action as long as she stays with his husband, or the attention-sucking human king.
Edited by Taniara on 3/17/2013 4:33 PM PDT
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Ah, but you see, the problem is for Tyrande to divorce Malfurion, she will have to actually progress as a character, and if she could do that, she wouldn't have to divorce him in the first place. It's the chicken and the egg.
Edited by Kargum on 3/17/2013 4:40 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Hunter
20410
Tyrande needs to leave Malfurion and join Illidan...if you know what I mean.
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Tyrande needs to leave Malfurion and join Illidan...if you know what I mean.


Why does she have to choose? Given Malfurion's penchant for long naps and Illidan's perpetual distraction, she should just date them both.
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100 Night Elf Priest
10335
Malfurion should just kill Tyrande since everyone likes to throw huge freaking fits about how terrible of a character she is.

Nothing wrong between Malfurion and Tyrande.

Edit: Sorry not helping, just sometimes the Tyrande tirade gets to me. Tyrande shouldn't have to get rid of Malfurion just to get progress because that's the opposite of what needs to happen.
Edited by Haaely on 3/17/2013 4:50 PM PDT
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100 Dwarf Paladin
13395
I don't think a female character getting married, especially to someone they've been involved with since introduction, is inherently detrimental to their character development.

She really just needs to do something that isn't objectively wrong without Malfurion around once in awhile.
Edited by Falrinn on 3/17/2013 4:50 PM PDT
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100 Human Paladin
10330
Hopefully the Horde kills Malfurion.
Edited by Gollard on 3/17/2013 4:53 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Druid
13110
Edit: Sorry not helping, just sometimes the Tyrande tirade gets to me. Tyrande shouldn't have to get rid of Malfurion just to get progress because that's the opposite of what needs to happen.


I think what most people are expressing is the apparent tendency for Tyrande and her character to revolve around Malfurion whenever they're together. Thus, they (and I) pin that dislike on Malfurion.

From that standpoint, it's either Malfurion needs to go because the writers will never be able to give Tyrande development when he's around, or they just need to start writing Tyrande as a more independent woman.

In other words:
I don't think a female character getting married, especially to someone they've been involved with since introduction, is inherently detrimental to their character development.

She really just needs to do something that isn't objectively wrong without Malfurion around once in awhile


And especially since Malfurion is the figurehead for the neutral CC, many fans feel he shouldn't be involved with the Alliance-aligned governement. And on top of that, so many night elf themes are taken by the CC, many people (like me) just dislike the neutral druids in general now.
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90 Human Death Knight
13050
Honestly they've been written as too close together to consider divorcing. It would be pretty out of character.

What would be more likely is if Malfurion got killed by the Horde and it made Tyrande more vengeful, but I don't foresee Metzen killing one of his favorite characters anytime soon.
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Uh, we already know what Tyrande is like without Malfurion.

She's a ruthless hardass.

This is how we were introduced to her.

What kind of character development do you want, exactly? She's over 10,000 years old. I'm not sure if she even keeps track of the years anymore. She's set in her ways.
Edited by Draile on 3/17/2013 5:51 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Priest
10335
Honestly they've been written as too close together to consider divorcing. It would be pretty out of character.

What would be more likely is if Malfurion got killed by the Horde and it made Tyrande more vengeful, but I don't foresee Metzen killing one of his favorite characters anytime soon.


Once again though that goes against everything your all asking for with Tyrande. Her becoming more vengeful or psychotic because of Malfurion isn't good story telling and it's cliche, plus then it's once again "because of Malfurion" type thing.

It would be better if Tyrande was written more and had some more independence, she showed some of it in Wolfheart, but then it was just forgotten about and then Crane Temple happened.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
9325
Honestly, Malfurion is as much to blame for Tyrande's characterization as he is for his for Rhonin's, and A Little Patience shows us in no uncertain terms that it's not his fault. The problem is more fundamental than that.

I've sort of lapsed with my idea of writing the next post on how to fix certain characters because I was figuring that Tyrande or Malfurion would be next. My constant realization, however, is that they're just too far gone to be fixed.

Malfurion was established as Blizzard's bully pulpit against Alliance fans who wanted to know why the Cenarion Circle didn't care about Ashenvale. He was there to lead the offensive against the Firelands, sure, but also to sit us down and tell us that war with the Horde is bad, and that we're letting our emotions overcome reason (as he and Blizzard define it, I suppose). For Horde players, this is great, but for the target audience, this isn't going to work.

So we're left with Tyrande, whose problems really began in Cataclysm. When fans asked for armor, they gave her the current model change. In the leader short stories, we saw the leaders really show us why they were the only ones who could lead their people. They made tough decisions, accomplished amazing feats, and for the most part gained a newfound respect that they didn't have previously, Baine and Tyrande being the only real exceptions.

Tyrande's of course was full of problems. She has to sneak out of Darnassus like a seventeen year old whose parents said that she can't go out anymore, she loses it in regard to Shandris, and then at the end, Malfurion bails her out. She only grows as a character in the realization that she needs Malfurion and that she can't really do things by herself. This gets reinforced in A Little Patience, but I'll get to that point later.

Someone could make an argument for her presence in the HOT dungeon, but whereas she really is performing some amazing feats over there, the party isn't seeing it - they're focused on Mannoroth's impressive behind and waiting for the dreadlords to lock her down just so they can get that speedbump out of the way. In other words, sure, she's holding off a Horde of demons, but her mechanics are little more than a burden on the party in what is otherwise a tank and spank with little variation.

Now we get to A Little Patience. Well.... what is there to say that hasn't already been said? Everyone's IQ dropped 40 points, the Orcs proved that they're less intelligent than the /follow command as they ran into clear traps that had already made mincemeat out of the people they were following before their very eyes, and Tyrande whined the whole way. The overarching point, if you ignore the achievement title, is that Tyrande just isn't a competent leader.

Well, if that's the case, then we need a new one.


I'm not saying kill her, Malfurion, or anyone out of spite. Don't wreck their relationship or make them have a falling out, but they need to remove Tyrande from the story, and probably Malfurion too.

She had her moments, she had some style.... but that's all gone now.
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100 Night Elf Priest
10335
Tyrande's of course was full of problems. She has to sneak out of Darnassus like a seventeen year old whose parents said that she can't go out anymore, she loses it in regard to Shandris, and then at the end, Malfurion bails her out. She only grows as a character in the realization that she needs Malfurion and that she can't really do things by herself


Do you guys read this from a distant perspective or go into reading the story with all your hate pent up and overfilled because that's no where near what happened.

She didn't have to sneak out she just chose too because she thought it would be less of a hassle. Malfurion never forbade her from going, just applied what was said to their people back on her that's it.

Must be such an easy thing to see the person you have considered a daughter for thousands of years lying there looking dead and not lose it in some way. No we should have Tyrande walk up and just be like "Elune heal her immediately" and then not have a care in the world her daughter was about to die.

Malfurion also didn't freaking bail her out, he came because he knew she would come at happen to get there at the beginning of the fight and Tyrande still handled herself quite well and probably would have to begin with, but any notion of her husband showing up to help his wife is freaking terrible to happen.

Why is it so wrong that Tyrande needs Malfurion in some way? She's loved him for what 10,000+ years and has always wanted him to stand by her more instead of sleeping so much? And now that happens and everyone is flipping there freaking lid about it.

You and everyone else keep seeing things through your rage tinted eyes and immediately twist everything to be bad.

Now we get to A Little Patience


I do agree this was bad, Blizzard handled this really freaking terribly and should be ashamed of it.

I'm not saying kill her, Malfurion, or anyone out of spite. Don't wreck their relationship or make them have a falling out, but they need to remove Tyrande from the story, and probably Malfurion too.


Yes that's a great solution to this problem. Let's just ignore everything and take them out of the Story.
Edited by Haaely on 3/17/2013 6:23 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Druid
13110
03/17/2013 06:11 PMPosted by Kyalin
the Orcs proved that they're less intelligent than the /follow command


I absolutely love this line.

I'm not saying kill her, Malfurion, or anyone out of spite. Don't wreck their relationship or make them have a falling out, but they need to remove Tyrande from the story, and probably Malfurion too.


Eh, I think they can be salvaged, but I get the feeling that one of the main problems is that the writers aren't experts at writing women. They've gotten a lot better recently, though, so there's some bit of hope left. I also decided, to save any opinion I have left for the game's writing, that A Little Patience was just filling the quota of "look how awesome Varian is" and to ignore it from a story point.

As for Tyrande's new model, I'd be happy with it (even if I think it's still a bit silly) if they changed the eyes from Death Knight to night elf and either changed her hair back to blue or said "Sorry, we had her hair wrong for several years". The hair change just confuses me. Someone once commented on how her skirt is probably based off of the Roman/Greek armored kilts (I can't remember any of those specifics right now), but that helped reconcile me to the new model.

I get the feeling that the writers don't really have a solid, unanimous idea for what night elves act like and should be, and what their modern role should be or if they even should be able to get out of thinking in the past to create a modern role. And Tyrande is rather a symptom of this.
Edited by Aviala on 3/17/2013 6:27 PM PDT
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58 Undead Death Knight
120
Tyrande should execute Malfurion.

Malfurion has killed more Night Elves than any danger they've ever faced by denying them immortality. They'll die of diseases, cancers, and all the things immortality blocked out. And this is because they didn't appreciate life enough. So Malfurion is purple-Jigsaw, apparently.

Oh, actually, he's not Jigsaw, because Jigsaw didn't have an elite sect of powerful magic users backing him that stood above the rest of Night Elven society, and that had access to their own form of immortality in any case.

He's also a massive self-serving hypocrite. "We must save nature, except when the Horde is destroying it, in which case we must chastise anyone that treats them as a major enemy. Not at all because that means we'll have to face any sort of danger, nope, it's just me being a good guy, yessir."
Edited by Gandred on 3/17/2013 6:37 PM PDT
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90 Human Death Knight
13050
Tyrande should execute Malfurion.


Now there's something that's likely never going to happen.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
9325
Do you guys read this from a distant perspective or go into reading the story with all your hate pent up and overfilled because that's no where near what happened.

She didn't have to sneak out she just chose too because she thought it would be less of a hassle. Malfurion never forbade her from going, just applied what was said to their people back on her that's it.


I never said that Malfurion forbade her, I just relayed what it looked like. We can have a debate over whether permission was there or not, but the fact remains that she kept her departure secret, as though she wasn't supposed to do it. The imagery of it is the issue, one of the Night Elves persistent issues when we get to the matters of substance and form.

Must be such an easy thing to see the person you have considered a daughter for thousands of years lying there looking dead and not lose it in some way. No we should have Tyrande walk up and just be like "Elune heal her immediately" and then not have a care in the world her daughter was about to die.


I'm not saying that Tyrande should be displaying levels of sympathy that can only be compared to Karl Urban's portrayal of Judge Dredd, but if she's breaking down in the middle of a situation like that, how can we expect her not to do that when the stakes are higher?

We can't. Which is why she can't be trusted to make those decisions under that sort of pressure. When the phone rings at 3a- ... 3pm, get someone else to answer it.

Malfurion also didn't freaking bail her out, he came because he knew she would come at happen to get there at the beginning of the fight and Tyrande still handled herself quite well and probably would have to begin with, but any notion of her husband showing up to help his wife is freaking terrible to happen.


Again, the imagery is concerning... and how did he know she was gone in the first place if she snuck out?

Why is it so wrong that Tyrande needs Malfurion in some way? She's loved him for what 10,000+ years and has always wanted him to stand by her more instead of sleeping so much? And now that happens and everyone is flipping there freaking lid about it.


Two issues.

One, as mentioned before, Malfurion was being used at the time as a bully pulpit against people who said that the Cenarion Circle should care about Ashenvale - and that's an issue I forgot on the first go round. Seeds of Faith deliberately tiptoed around any matters involving the Horde.

Two, the freaking imagery. It looks like Malfurion is swooping in to save the day again, when Tyrande needed more than ever to prove herself as a leader. She didn't, the chance was stolen from her, and she was bungling it in the first place.

You and everyone else keep seeing things through your rage tinted eyes and immediately twist everything to be bad.


This statement really doesn't mean anything other than "I disagree with you, now shut up because you're wrong". I guess it's a clever way to preempt any argument that I'll ever made ever, but it's still logically bankrupt.

I get the feeling that the writers don't really have a solid, unanimous idea for what night elves act like and should be, and what their modern role should be or if they even should be able to get out of thinking in the past to create a modern role. And Tyrande is rather a symptom of this.


I think the matter is more that they have a different vision, and are going to go through with it - damn the consequences. Or at least, this is what "I used to love them" tells me. It tells me that they hear the complaints, they understand the complaints, but they don't really give a !@#$ about the complaints and are going to keep going.
Edited by Kyalin on 3/17/2013 6:46 PM PDT
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58 Undead Death Knight
120
03/17/2013 06:43 PMPosted by Grimtale
Tyrande should execute Malfurion.


Now there's something that's likely never going to happen.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAUOPHqx5Gs
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100 Night Elf Priest
10335
Again, the imagery is concerning... and how did he know she was gone in the first place if she snuck out?


Because he knows her and knows what she would do, when he saw she already made up her mind when they were talking that afternoon.

Two, the freaking imagery. It looks like Malfurion is swooping in to save the day again, when Tyrande needed more than ever to prove herself as a leader. She didn't, the chance was stolen from her, and she was bungling it in the first place.


I don't see what she needs to prove. We all know she can handle herself just fine especially against some simple Naga. She did just fine fighting and like I said I imagine she would even if Malfurion didn't show up.

This statement really doesn't mean anything other than "I disagree with you, now shut up because you're wrong". I guess it's a clever way to preempt any argument that I'll ever made ever, but it's still logically bankrupt.


I disagree yea, but that's because it seems like your twisting everything that happens to be a negative. I guess if your a pessimistic person then I would understand, but I would think everyone would try and look at things from a positive side too.

I never said that Malfurion forbade her, I just relayed what it looked like. We can have a debate over whether permission was there or not, but the fact remains that she kept her departure secret, as though she wasn't supposed to do it. The imagery of it is the issue, one of the Night Elves persistent issues when we get to the matters of substance and form.


Sounds like you did when you compared it to a 17 year old sneaking out when her parents told her not too. Sounds like someone is being forbidden to leave and who else would forbid her other than Malfurion?

Technically she wasn't suppose to do it, she and malfurion both told her people to not go out into the World to search for loved ones and she was deliberately disobeying her own orders so instead of leaving in the middle of daylight and having to deal with the political side of her decision she sneaks out to avoid all that.

I'm not saying that Tyrande should be displaying levels of sympathy that can only be compared to Karl Urban's portrayal of Judge Dredd, but if she's breaking down in the middle of a situation like that, how can we expect her not to do that when the stakes are higher?


I expect her to still have her moment otherwise I'd be afraid of her as a leader honestly. The fact that she did breakdown in someway and immediately rushes to heal Shandris and do anything she could makes me relate to her more and I like that in this kind of Story. These leaders are still Human or Elven or whatever you want to say and they should be allowed to have some of those simpler reactions. I would imagine in situations with higher stakes she would act better like she has previously.
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100 Undead Death Knight
Req
14950
What needs to happen is that Tyrande learns of all the things that Malfurion has done and finally snaps to it by leaving him. While she was out searching for herself she learns that Illidan was still alive and becomes attracted to the things that he was saying. So she would be attracted to him but not want to get back together with him due to Malfurion and the fact that she still loves him. Then by that point Illidan would find Malfurion once again and then they can fight with one another over Tyrande.

At this point in the story, things are really boring with Tyrande's love situation. Illidan's dead and Malfurion is ruling over Tyrande while we saw Tyrande's badass attitude sucked out of her turning her into a housewife. If we can add a competition over her love life it will make things more exciting, as well as suspenseful because it could just as easily be likely that she could choose Illidan over Malfurion.
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