Tyrande needs to divorce Malfurion.

90 Tauren Priest
2440
Is it just me or is half the story Forum built on Alliance, Night elf, and Draenei Angst?
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90 Night Elf Druid
16280
It's funny how many people are upset about Malfurion and Tyrande being completely different characters they were in Warcraft III when what they got was literally nothing compared to the rewrite of Illidan being turned into a one-dimensional loot pinata with designated insanity from this incredibly clever chaotic neutral character with the unique demon hunter talent to dabble in demonic magics of none other than Sargeras without losing himself to the corruption (as he was quite literally imbued by Sargeras himself).

The state of Malfurion and Tyrande is nothing compared to what they did to Illidan. Hell, from an in-game perspective, Malfurion actually looks far better in WoW than he ever did in WC3, which had much less black-and-white characters. They even went so far as to write an entire trilogy of books to reinforce the rewrite of Illidan as "bad" and Furion as "good".

In WoW, Malfurion becomes the flawless saint hero and Illidan becomes the one-dimensional psychopathic villain (who carries around a Milton-like skull from "Castaway" that was supposed to have been consumed). In WC3, both of these characters had far more depth and neither was necessarily good or evil but it was closer to a sort of "Lawful vs Chaotic" rivalry they had going on that provided a lot of complexity insofar as choosing who the player identified more with. The more traditionalist Furion strictly opposed the fight-fire-with-fire approach of using demonic magics against the burning legion itself whereas Illidan felt his destiny was to be a powerful savior of his people and fight the burning legion at any cost of self-sacrifice and disregarded his people's social traditions as unimportant in the grand scheme. Let's not forget about Tyrande being a complete badass throughout the WC3 campaign as well who, while in a relationship with Furion, was still fiercely independent.

All three of these core night elf characters suffered from being completely dumbed down, but at least Furion and Tyrande made it out alive with a shadow of who they once were and still going down on the record as "the good guys".

I don't even want to go into why they decided to give Tyrande a frakkin Draenei accent though...
Edited by Moltke on 3/19/2013 8:30 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
9145
Is it just me or is half the story Forum built on Alliance, Night elf, and Draenei Angst?


The ancient foundation of lordaeron was beginning to crumble. We had to fill in the gaps or the whole ship would have sank.

Show some respect for the men and woman who wake up every morning with nothing better to look forward to than more angst to stop the Story Forum from self destructing, whelp.
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90 Night Elf Druid
16280
You people don't know what angst means and aren't using it correctly.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9145
You people don't know what angst means and aren't using it correctly.


You don't think Night Elf fans are not all anxiety'ed out about how horrible the next appearance will be?

Because if not, you haven't seen the "NO MORE NIGHT ELF LORE" posts.

But, you know, it was also a smart !@# comment meant to be a smart $%^ comment. :D

Also, I'd forgive Blizzard everything if their big redemption of Illidan was to have Malfurion make some big public speech and just out of no where have Illidan fly in all Luke Cage shadow kick style and kick Malfurion right in the throat.

Pricelesstality.
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90 Night Elf Druid
16280
03/19/2013 10:04 AMPosted by Ferlion
You people don't know what angst means and aren't using it correctly.


You don't think Night Elf fans are not all anxiety'ed out about how horrible the next appearance will be?

Because if not, you haven't seen the "NO MORE NIGHT ELF LORE" posts.

But, you know, it was also a smart !@# comment meant to be a smart $%^ comment. :D

Also, I'd forgive Blizzard everything if their big redemption of Illidan was to have Malfurion make some big public speech and just out of no where have Illidan fly in all Luke Cage shadow kick style and kick Malfurion right in the throat.

Pricelesstality.


I wouldn't call it anxiety, but maybe that's just me.

I would enjoy a return to the shades-of-grey complexity and rivalry between Illidan/Malfurion though if Illidan is ever redeemed and if it was done well enough, would forgive them for the abomination that is TBC lore.
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90 Undead Death Knight
Req
14345
Is it just me or is half the story Forum built on Alliance, Night elf, and Draenei Angst?
Don't forget Forsaken hatred as well!
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90 Night Elf Rogue
8360
It's funny how many people are upset about Malfurion and Tyrande being completely different characters they were in Warcraft III when what they got was literally nothing compared to the rewrite of Illidan being turned into a one-dimensional loot pinata with designated insanity from this incredibly clever chaotic neutral character with the unique demon hunter talent to dabble in demonic magics of none other than Sargeras without losing himself to the corruption (as he was quite literally imbued by Sargeras himself).

The state of Malfurion and Tyrande is nothing compared to what they did to Illidan. Hell, from an in-game perspective, Malfurion actually looks far better in WoW than he ever did in WC3, which had much less black-and-white characters. They even went so far as to write an entire trilogy of books to reinforce the rewrite of Illidan as "bad" and Furion as "good".

In WoW, Malfurion becomes the flawless saint hero and Illidan becomes the one-dimensional psychopathic villain (who carries around a Milton-like skull from "Castaway" that was supposed to have been consumed). In WC3, both of these characters had far more depth and neither was necessarily good or evil but it was closer to a sort of "Lawful vs Chaotic" rivalry they had going on that provided a lot of complexity insofar as choosing who the player identified more with. The more traditionalist Furion strictly opposed the fight-fire-with-fire approach of using demonic magics against the burning legion itself whereas Illidan felt his destiny was to be a powerful savior of his people and fight the burning legion at any cost of self-sacrifice and disregarded his people's social traditions as unimportant in the grand scheme. Let's not forget about Tyrande being a complete badass throughout the WC3 campaign as well who, while in a relationship with Furion, was still fiercely independent.

All three of these core night elf characters suffered from being completely dumbed down, but at least Furion and Tyrande made it out alive with a shadow of who they once were and still going down on the record as "the good guys".

I don't even want to go into why they decided to give Tyrande a frakkin Draenei accent though...


I can go out and say that the characters at least in some way resemble what they were in Warcraft III, but the hyperbole here is just insane.

Illidan, for example, wasn't simply ostracized because he used demonic magic which is a bad thing for reasons that players don't like to fully explore outside of "tradition is BAD!", but because he was a straight-up power monger who had no problem at all with killing and mutilating defenseless villagers for living on the coasts, and who was actually in league with the legion twice before the end of the Frozen Throne.

WoW's Illidan was still evil, and still acting in his own self interest, albeit, now on the defense. I think it would have been interesting to see him work against the legion some more. Perhaps as a Mensk like figure, despite the fact that he rightfully deserves the title of Betrayer. Am I unhappy about the insane angle? Certainly, but he's the best of the three.


Malfurion changes a bit more. This is a guy who very much cares for the natural order above everything else, and likes the idea of cooperation, but he also fights for the forest and cares that it's getting chopped down. He cared when even Maiev called for his help. He's still not my favorite, but in regard to where I think he was in that game, it can be summed up in the line "How dare you!", said in the way that only he can of course. This is what I imagined druids to be at that point in time.

It was a real disappointment to see them play up the "he cares about nature" thing to the extent that he forgets about his people. I guess it could be said that it was a gameplay over lore decision, but they also took the step of using Malfurion as a response to fans who wanted to know why he suddenly didn't care about his people. I still to this day believe that they chose Firelands over Abyssal Maw just to give an excuse for that, but whether it's true or not, it's a loss of a character.


Then there's ehh....

Tyrande's the worst. I'm not going to say that I can't see where people are coming from when they say that Tyrande was irrational (and yes, I am going to focus on that hated word), but she also had reasons, which contradicts the rebuke. She's the one dedicated to her people and the preservation of her country, and makes decisions that people can disagree with. The Horde folks rebuke her for not having the omnipotent foresight to welcome the Horde with open arms the second the legion showed up, abandoning everything that she was fighting for simply because another enemy showed up, (what's that? A character with drives and motivations that transcend the situation in which they find themselves?) but as you can probably tell from that description, she had reasons for doing so. Same deal with the purging of the Wardens, which I still defend as far as Tyrande's reasons are concerned as much as I hate Illidan, and like the Wardens. (Heck, my character is one.... who now makes it a point to disobey a priestess... ever.)

The cracks in the character really showed up in the Frozen Throne. She was a lot more toned down, she was less of a character and more of a love object for Malfurion, and as a nod to Ferlion's argument, I'll acknowledge that we start to see the Elune ex machima start to show up at about this point.

I don't need to say more about what has happened to Tyrande except in summary. Her flaws have been magnified to the point of absurdity, and Blizzard felt the need to show that she is flat out an incompetent leader just to make Varian look better.


I've got a bonus in this gripe fest though: Maiev.

Yes, I know, tons of people hate Maiev, but I still see this character as someone who, while she makes some very bad decisions in Warcraft III, and suffers terribly as a result - she still has very good and noble reasons for making those decisions. She is a lot of things that we liked about Tyrande, and at the same time, she's a tragic character who will never move on as a person from what she sees as her duty. I think they really could have done something with this in World of Warcraft, at least as a competent field commander if nothing else.

It seems like in Wolfheart though, they decided to just make her evil in response to fans asking "what happened to Maiev" as though they saw them like the seagulls from Finding Nemo, which annoys me to say the least.


So, how many main Night Elf characters do we have left from Warcraft III? Oh... it seems we've run out... and that's only part of the problem.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9145
Honestly?

The fanbase is to blame. Night Elves were to popular. Alliance side, they hold by far the second biggest fanbase outside of humans, and Blizzard wants humans in the spotlight. So they ruined Night Elves.

least, that's the feeling that comes off.
Edited by Ferlion on 3/19/2013 9:17 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Rogue
8360
Honestly?

The fanbase is to blame. Night Elves were to popular. Alliance side, they hold by far the second biggest fanbase outside of humans, and Blizzard wants humans in the spotlight. So they ruined Night Elves.

least, that's the feeling that comes off.


I'd stop making excuses for the writers, especially from a profit standpoint.

If they are the second most popular race in an equally popular faction (despite Blizzard's best interests) then angering them was a bad decision, period.

Just as making the Alliance fanbase feel like second-class customers so they leave your game is a bad decision, period.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9145
Honestly?

The fanbase is to blame. Night Elves were to popular. Alliance side, they hold by far the second biggest fanbase outside of humans, and Blizzard wants humans in the spotlight. So they ruined Night Elves.

least, that's the feeling that comes off.


I'd stop making excuses for the writers, especially from a profit standpoint.

If they are the second most popular race in an equally popular faction (despite Blizzard's best interests) then angering them was a bad decision, period.

Just as making the Alliance fanbase feel like second-class customers so they leave your game is a bad decision, period.


Yet here we sit.

It's a classic case of Tough !@#$% said the kitty but the milks still good.

As long as the Alliance puts up with it and remains subbed, they have no reason to change.
Edited by Ferlion on 3/19/2013 10:00 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Rogue
8360


I'd stop making excuses for the writers, especially from a profit standpoint.

If they are the second most popular race in an equally popular faction (despite Blizzard's best interests) then angering them was a bad decision, period.

Just as making the Alliance fanbase feel like second-class customers so they leave your game is a bad decision, period.


Yet here we sit.


Until May 15th, and I encourage you to join me.

Apart from that though, don't buy their value added products. No books, character transfers, pets, nothing. They have to feel the pain of these decisions, whether it's from loss of subscribership or sales flat out.
Edited by Kyalin on 3/19/2013 10:01 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
9145


Yet here we sit.


Until May 15th, and I encourage you to join me.


I'll be leaving as soon as I can convince the guild mates to leave to another game (as soon as another game worth playing comes). They ain't into Star Wars. Gonna try my luck at ESO.

Trust me Kyalin, I'm gone already, unless something changes between the time I get my guild mates to jump ship and a ship to jump to, Its not even something Ima think about.

And added values are a ditto. I've even shelved my Blizzcon plans.
Edited by Ferlion on 3/19/2013 10:07 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Rogue
8360


Until May 15th, and I encourage you to join me.


I'll be leaving as soon as I can convince the guild mates to leave to another game (as soon as another game worth playing comes). They ain't into Star Wars. Gonna try my luck at ESO.

Trust me Kyalin, I'm gone already, unless something changes between the time I get my guild mates to jump ship and a ship to jump to, Its not even something Ima think about.


The other thing is that a lot of people already have left, and that even past Blizzard's glowing 4th quarter earnings release, they still ended the year with a decline in revenue, both from a GAAP and non-GAAP perspective. They still ended with a net subscriber loss, even if it is more stable in the west - for now at least.

With a lot of people, it's not that they consciously left because of the story, they left because the flavor and feel was gone, because things got boring or stupid... and that's going to continue until Blizzard can reverse things.

Edit: And yeah, don't go to Blizzcon. That goes for everyone. The devs have demonstrated that there is little to no reliability to their statements.
Edited by Kyalin on 3/19/2013 10:12 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11905
Really, all this player dislike just makes me want to work there further. Call me stupid but I'd wish to make some degree of change for the better.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
8360
Really, all this player dislike just makes me want to work there further. Call me stupid but I'd wish to make some degree of change for the better.


Given a corporate culture that looks (from the outside looking in... yes) like its driven by groupthink and ego, I don't think you'd ever be successful in that.

... and with ATVI and every other company in the world right now predicting earnings decreases, (i.e. We've reached the point where costs can't be cut further, and the revenues just aren't recovering in general) I don't think that they'd have too many positions.
Edited by Kyalin on 3/19/2013 10:21 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
16280
It's funny how many people are upset about Malfurion and Tyrande being completely different characters they were in Warcraft III when what they got was literally nothing compared to the rewrite of Illidan being turned into a one-dimensional loot pinata with designated insanity from this incredibly clever chaotic neutral character with the unique demon hunter talent to dabble in demonic magics of none other than Sargeras without losing himself to the corruption (as he was quite literally imbued by Sargeras himself).

The state of Malfurion and Tyrande is nothing compared to what they did to Illidan. Hell, from an in-game perspective, Malfurion actually looks far better in WoW than he ever did in WC3, which had much less black-and-white characters. They even went so far as to write an entire trilogy of books to reinforce the rewrite of Illidan as "bad" and Furion as "good".

In WoW, Malfurion becomes the flawless saint hero and Illidan becomes the one-dimensional psychopathic villain (who carries around a Milton-like skull from "Castaway" that was supposed to have been consumed). In WC3, both of these characters had far more depth and neither was necessarily good or evil but it was closer to a sort of "Lawful vs Chaotic" rivalry they had going on that provided a lot of complexity insofar as choosing who the player identified more with. The more traditionalist Furion strictly opposed the fight-fire-with-fire approach of using demonic magics against the burning legion itself whereas Illidan felt his destiny was to be a powerful savior of his people and fight the burning legion at any cost of self-sacrifice and disregarded his people's social traditions as unimportant in the grand scheme. Let's not forget about Tyrande being a complete badass throughout the WC3 campaign as well who, while in a relationship with Furion, was still fiercely independent.

All three of these core night elf characters suffered from being completely dumbed down, but at least Furion and Tyrande made it out alive with a shadow of who they once were and still going down on the record as "the good guys".

I don't even want to go into why they decided to give Tyrande a frakkin Draenei accent though...


I can go out and say that the characters at least in some way resemble what they were in Warcraft III, but the hyperbole here is just insane.

Illidan, for example, wasn't simply ostracized because he used demonic magic which is a bad thing for reasons that players don't like to fully explore outside of "tradition is BAD!", but because he was a straight-up power monger who had no problem at all with killing and mutilating defenseless villagers for living on the coasts, and who was actually in league with the legion twice before the end of the Frozen Throne.

WoW's Illidan was still evil, and still acting in his own self interest, albeit, now on the defense. I think it would have been interesting to see him work against the legion some more. Perhaps as a Mensk like figure, despite the fact that he rightfully deserves the title of Betrayer. Am I unhappy about the insane angle? Certainly, but he's the best of the three.


Malfurion changes a bit more. This is a guy who very much cares for the natural order above everything else, and likes the idea of cooperation, but he also fights for the forest and cares that it's getting chopped down. He cared when even Maiev called for his help. He's still not my favorite, but in regard to where I think he was in that game, it can be summed up in the line "How dare you!", said in the way that only he can of course. This is what I imagined druids to be at that point in time.

It was a real disappointment to see them play up the "he cares about nature" thing to the extent that he forgets about his people. I guess it could be said that it was a gameplay over lore decision, but they also took the step of using Malfurion as a response to fans who wanted to know why he suddenly didn't care about his people. I still to this day believe that they chose Firelands over Abyssal Maw just to give an excuse for that, but whether it's true or not, it's a loss of a character.


Then there's ehh....

Tyrande's the worst. I'm not going to say that I can't see where people are coming from when they say that Tyrande was irrational (and yes, I am going to focus on that hated word), but she also had reasons, which contradicts the rebuke. She's the one dedicated to her people and the preservation of her country, and makes decisions that people can disagree with. The Horde folks rebuke her for not having the omnipotent foresight to welcome the Horde with open arms the second the legion showed up, abandoning everything that she was fighting for simply because another enemy showed up, (what's that? A character with drives and motivations that transcend the situation in which they find themselves?) but as you can probably tell from that description, she had reasons for doing so. Same deal with the purging of the Wardens, which I still defend as far as Tyrande's reasons are concerned as much as I hate Illidan, and like the Wardens. (Heck, my character is one.... who now makes it a point to disobey a priestess... ever.)

The cracks in the character really showed up in the Frozen Throne. She was a lot more toned down, she was less of a character and more of a love object for Malfurion, and as a nod to Ferlion's argument, I'll acknowledge that we start to see the Elune ex machima start to show up at about this point.

I don't need to say more about what has happened to Tyrande except in summary. Her flaws have been magnified to the point of absurdity, and Blizzard felt the need to show that she is flat out an incompetent leader just to make Varian look better.


I've got a bonus in this gripe fest though: Maiev.

Yes, I know, tons of people hate Maiev, but I still see this character as someone who, while she makes some very bad decisions in Warcraft III, and suffers terribly as a result - she still has very good and noble reasons for making those decisions. She is a lot of things that we liked about Tyrande, and at the same time, she's a tragic character who will never move on as a person from what she sees as her duty. I think they really could have done something with this in World of Warcraft, at least as a competent field commander if nothing else.

It seems like in Wolfheart though, they decided to just make her evil in response to fans asking "what happened to Maiev" as though they saw them like the seagulls from Finding Nemo, which annoys me to say the least.


So, how many main Night Elf characters do we have left from Warcraft III? Oh... it seems we've run out... and that's only part of the problem.


You act like he malevolently enjoyed destroying the night elf village in WC3 TFT. You say I'm the one using hyperbole here and you say he "mutilated" them? Seriously rofl? He literally slaughtered the village because he didn't want to be followed or for them to reveal any intel to his pursuers. Yes it is terrible, but there was no indication that he took pleasure in doing what he did to survive, it was a matter of military pragmatism. Also, his people had turned against him long before he turned against them so blatantly (as he iconically notes in the WC3TFT intro cinematic and is ironically given the title of "Betrayer").

His being in league with the legion doesn't make him evil either and you're using some pretty simplistic systems of morality to assert that it does. The first time he joined with the legion he literally was acting as a double agent and was capable of fooling SARGERAS intro trusting him and Illidan (as well as actually enticing Azshara's interests) eventually used said trust against him which it is debatable as to whether or not the War of the Ancients could have even been won without him. He outplayed the fallen titan god - that is the level of how clever and intelligent this character is in pursuing his personal agenda which thankfully aligns with the "good guys" throughout warcraft 3. The second time he works with the legion could hardly be considered an act of evil either. Sargeras literally forces death upon Illidan to do what? To go fight another evil force and stop Arthas from uniting with the Lich King. The methods of destroying all of Northrend to put an end to Arthas and the Lich King are definitely not heroic, but they definitely don't make him a villain either. Both his motivations and his actions are always complex and questionable, but definitely reasonable in the position he is in for his own survival and that of his people (the Illidari alliance of Naga/Blood Elves/Draenei(Broken Ones if you must insist*)). He has questionable methods, but his intentions are never evil (until the abomination of WoW-BC Lore where Illidan wasn't the only one to suffer, but Kael, Vashj, and entire races suffered the wrath of many retcons, rewrites, and simplifications).

Malfurion was much more than just a "how dare you" nature hippy. He was literally the embodiment of the hierarchical establishment of conservative values in Night Elf society that abhors any use of demonology and further looks down upon any use of arcane magic in general. The newly added Felwood questline in Cataclysm dealing with the Demon Hunter and Illidan's past is really symbolic of this. WC3 proudly doesn't just display this in Malfurion, but also a strong leader who knows the risks of said demonic and arcane magics so his firm unyielding authoritative stances aren't exactly unreasonable but the whole thematic situation is a heap of ethical and psychological complexity. The problem is, in WoW this is just completely dumbed down as he becomes a "Mary sue" character (along with pretty every other main hero in the game - granted I like what they are currently doing with Jaina in these recent MoP patches of 5.1-5.2, but we will have to see where they go with it), while Illdain becomes a flat villain.

Tyrande in WC3 is very much like Malfurion but operating with a different power base. Whether it is coincidence or not, their love interest is an incredibly convenient political alliance and it pretty much establishes the two as the absolute authority of the Night Elf nation. I'll agree with you though that she does appear much more helpless and weak as a character in TFT. I really don't know much about the wardens as there is very little in-game lore in either WC3 or WoW that deals with them, but I absolutely hate Maeiv Shadowsong and don't really understand how you could hate the WC3 Illidan but love her as I feel like you have the characters completely backwards.

Maeiv's intentions are not good or noble at all, she is quite literally consumed by petty hatred and vengeance (which is symbolically referenced in her hero unit in TFT whose ultimate is literally to summon an Avatar of Vengeance which spawns additional Spirits of Vengeance). You know when Kalecgos stops Jaina from flooding Orgrimmar under the notion that she is acting even worse than Arthas because she is motivated by nothing but pure hatred whereas Arthas was at least doing what he believed to be his duty? That is exactly what Maeiv is motivated by, not duty, but hatred and vengeance. Her character is the literal definition of clingy, obsessive, psychopath who shows no remorse for what she does - for example in abandoning Tyrande to die (in fact, seems like she would prefer the death of her Priestess whom she doesn't get along with at all throughout TFT campaign) in the pursuit of her selfish grudge against Illidan for having to be his Jailer and never seeing the moral complexity behind his actions after the War of the Ancients. Her duty ends when her literal superiors relieve her of her obligation to imprison Illidan. I honestly wasn't reminded of Tyrande at all when I first met Maeiv in WC3 and she is definitely the one Night Elf character I believe Blizzard has remained consistent with between WC3/TFT and WoW.

One more note about Illidan, you may be fair in judging Illidan to be power-hungry, but there are a few points I would make about this.

1. I would contest that while it is almost thematic of Illidan to constantly pursue, obtain, and flaunt his power, he never appears to treat it as an ends in itself. Illidan was the unfortunate victim of being bombarded with tales of his destiny to be great as a child and a hero of his people. He wants to live up to his destiny and that is his ends (or was early on at least, later on it becomes a mix of survival and making his own destiny, which seem to coincide with fighting against the Burning Legion), in addition to winning the love of Tyrande which is almost certainly the most important thing to him as a character. It is much easier to be sympathetic to his power-hungry nature when he has had it drilled into his head that he is a sort of "chosen one" of his people. His pursuit of power is the means to which he believes he will actualize the ends of fulfilling his destiny of greatness and saving his people. This is literally the end motivation of his actions throughout the War of the Ancients and a significant motivation of his character as a whole. Is this line of reasoning faulty though? Perhaps he is wrong to think he knows best, but it is certainly intuitive that the more powerful you are, the more capable you are of protecting what you value.

2. On a completely separate level, how exactly is the pursuit of power, even in-of-itself as an ends bad (if that is even possible)? There is nothing malevolent about pursuing power and there is nothing evil about practicing self-interest. Malevolence occurs when one uses their power to do terrible things as ends in themselves because somehow one revels in the misfortunes of others (for a rather dramatic example, see - "Clockwork Orange"). Illidan never shows any signs of malevolence or inclinations towards the pursuit of power as a means to bring misfortune upon others. Power is not inherently evil, it is just that it becomes much easier to actualize evil when one is in a position of power. This is in no way shape or form a fault however, but it is the very nature of what power entails - the ability to actualize what one desires. Hence, along the same lines, "good" is much easier to actualize when one is in a position of power as well.

Being power-hungry isn't grounds for making a firm ethical judgment about one's character - what you need to ask is why is that character power-hungry? What drives them to seek power and what do they intend to do with their power once they acquire it? I believe the truth of these answers with regards to Illidan is that he wants the power to become a hero to his people (fulfilling his destiny - this value is external in nature as it has been externally implanted in him) and genuinely win the love of Tyrande (this value is internal in nature, stemming directly from his own character which is why it is his most character-defining trait). This inevitably leads Illidan's ultimate purpose to be the opponent of the Burning Legion and Sargeras as that is the greatest threat to his people and Tyrande. Further, this is why Illidan is often acting as a double agent and becomes the first demon hunter - his will was always strong enough to resist succumbing to the demonic corruption and he saw that the raw power they wielded could be exploited and turned against them. While it's unknown how Illidan could retain his personality despite delving so deep into demonic corruption, it's certainly possible it is the strength of his will in these very noble motivations and intentions that give him enough strength to wield the power of the Burning Legion against itself whereas so many others who pursue power and demonic magic for less altruistic ends always succumb to the corruption.

You won't ever seem me argue that Illidan is a saint, but I would firmly reject the argument that he is an evil character. Tragically misguided maybe, possibly an anti-hero, but he has always had good intentions even if his methods for seeing those intentions through are often questionable and even sometimes radical. To close, his hopeless but undying love for Tyrande is probably the most altruistic thing we see in the entirety of Warcraft lore.
Edited by Moltke on 3/20/2013 12:09 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
9145
Really, all this player dislike just makes me want to work there further. Call me stupid but I'd wish to make some degree of change for the better.


After doing a bit or research on Blizzard, there are a couple of near universal complaints via sites like Glassdoor.

1.) Due to Blizzards rapid growth, they still manage themselves like a smaller company, which means their management is all homegrown. Their really isn't any path for advancement because of that. More, the management isn't exactly up to the job outside of Cdev.

And, more importantly, in my opinion, is their culture.

Blizzard "isn't" a family friendly company. Again, from the same websites, they are the type of company that punishes you for taking vacation, and the type that makes you choose between family and job. Again, said by more than one person. We're talking you take off, they speak to you in almost threatening tones to talk you out of it, and then they punish you with extra work and tasks and overflow from other people when you get back.

Their reputation as a company when it comes to work force is very depressing, though I will say that most sources seem to agree that developers are treated like the rare commodities that the good one's are, and as such hold a bit more leniency.

Of course, it's programmers leniency, and I'm sure you are already aware that code monkeys are already on a pretty crushing schedule when it comes to development

In short, while if you really want to work there, go for it, and may you truly have the best of luck, their reputation is far from glowing, or even complementary.
Edited by Ferlion on 3/19/2013 10:50 PM PDT
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90 Orc Warlock
10710
Is it just me or is half the story Forum built on Alliance, Night elf, and Draenei Angst?


I consider it more wangst then angst.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
8360
Just to post an extension off of Ferlion's post, you shouldn't cling to a dream company anyway - not in this economy. If you're serious about getting a job, rework your resume to look less like an obituary (tell your employer what you did, not what you were), learn how to write good cover letters, and don't stop mailing out applications.

The press is out saying that we've never had it so good, but they're not looking at the reasons. Just like 2009, companies are trimming costs out of their income statement. The game right now is to get ridiculously lean while maintaining the same level of revenue, and a strong cash reserve just in case. It just hasn't been good for hiring (especially given that you're talking about a U.S. company, which has extra costs to having full time workers around).

As for the "how dare you not like Illidan" post.

- Actually yes, they outright say in the mission that the bodies were mutilated. Illidan slaughtered three entire villages on his way up the coast.

- Illidan only turned on Kil'jaeden in failure. Other than that, he was perfectly willing to go all the way with his attempts to carry out Kil'jaeden's bidding.

- You can bemoan conservative values all you want, but the Night Elves spurn the Arcane and the Fel because both corrupt the user, and both have negative effects on the world. Look no further than felwood if you need further evidence. I know that for some people a prejudice alarm goes off which causes people to fly into moral outrage as they level towering polemics against the alleged prejudiced individual, but here, as it so often is, there are existing facts which go far beyond "you hate him 'cause he's different!"

- Calling Maiev clingy in reference to Illidan I think is your problem. You've let your own extrapolation get in the way of what happened. Yes, she made decisions which she felt were for the greater good - not a lot unlike what Tyrande did in the Barrow dens - but the situation was such that it was either a matter of rescuing Tyrande or stopping Illidan. Given Malfurion's urgency when he learned of what Illidan was doing, I'd say the latter was more important.

Which, again, given that Illidan had massacred three fishing villages, drowned half of the watchers, and was planning to cause a second sundering, was actually true. He might have been an anti-hero once, but this is kick-the-dog stuff already, and Maiev was absolutely justified in trying to put a stop to that.
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