Heroic 10M Council

90 Orc Warrior
13520
Looks like Blood Legion and Evodus are better than Paragon now that attrition of being a 10 man group has weakened them.


6/10 I was almost trolled.
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100 Dwarf Death Knight
18230
Paragon seems to have killed H Council after NINE hours of attempts.

Not looking forward to tonights raid one bit.


You have the opportunity to pass them.
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90 Troll Druid
13510
Paragon seems to have killed H Council after NINE hours of attempts.

Not looking forward to tonights raid one bit.


That's outrageous. 9 hours for them = 24 for us lesser people
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90 Pandaren Monk
HC
9450
That's outrageous. 9 hours for them = 24 for us lesser people


Speaking of which, not every guild has a roster that most that have their t15 4pcs before raiding hardmodes on the first week. :x

If it takes 9 hours for them to kill that boss in an obscene amount of gear, i dont even want to think about it.
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1 Blood Elf Paladin
0
9 hours, and thats with multiple raids feeding the mains gear

good lord. :x
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12960
Yah. Seriously. 10 mans = free loot guys come on PRESERVE THE SANCTITY OF RAIDING.
BUFF ALL 10 MAN HEROIC BOSSES.
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90 Pandaren Monk
18305
Paragon seems to have killed H Council after NINE hours of attempts.

Not looking forward to tonights raid one bit.


So can we now say that council heroic is OK and doesnt need any nerfs?

Look at the 25 man guilds that killed it also and it ranges from 3-11, so 9 isnt that bad. You also need to realize 9 hours isnt full of attempts. It involves respecing reforging regemming and discussing strats.

They are also doing it undergeared as to what the gear expected to kill it in is designed for. They can do it because they are good players and know how to play the game.
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90 Orc Warrior
13520
Paragon seems to have killed H Council after NINE hours of attempts.

Not looking forward to tonights raid one bit.


So can we now say that council heroic is OK and doesnt need any nerfs?

Look at the 25 man guilds that killed it also and it ranges from 3-11, so 9 isnt that bad. You also need to realize 9 hours isnt full of attempts. It involves respecing reforging regemming and discussing strats.

They are also doing it undergeared as to what the gear expected to kill it in is designed for. They can do it because they are good players and know how to play the game.


At first I though you were being facetious but then I looked at your post history. Paragon is the best guild in the world by a country mile. I don't think a single heroic boss in t14 except zorlock and sha took them more than 9 hours but I could be wrong. The point is if it took them 9 hours in the gear they're in, most heroic 10 man guilds will wipe for days to that boss.
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100 Troll Rogue
21855
Yah. Seriously. 10 mans = free loot guys come on PRESERVE THE SANCTITY OF RAIDING.
BUFF ALL 10 MAN HEROIC BOSSES.

At this point there aren't many people who claim one difficulty is inherently harder, in fact I suspect that is the minorty position now.

On topic I'd say it looks like council is going to be one of the last bosses killed by everyone, 10 or 25. The guilds that are killing it are doing it at 520+ ilvls and barely getting by, for us mere mortals it'll probably be weeks at the earliest.

Also looks like another 10 man got it, 6 hours.
http://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu/destromath/Moonz
Edited by Fierydemise on 3/13/2013 6:41 PM PDT
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1 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Paragon seems to have killed H Council after NINE hours of attempts.

Not looking forward to tonights raid one bit.


So can we now say that council heroic is OK and doesnt need any nerfs?

Look at the 25 man guilds that killed it also and it ranges from 3-11, so 9 isnt that bad. You also need to realize 9 hours isnt full of attempts. It involves respecing reforging regemming and discussing strats.

They are also doing it undergeared as to what the gear expected to kill it in is designed for. They can do it because they are good players and know how to play the game.


with all due respect, if paragon takes more time to down a boss than blood legion, it's overtuned.
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90 Pandaren Monk
18305


So can we now say that council heroic is OK and doesnt need any nerfs?

Look at the 25 man guilds that killed it also and it ranges from 3-11, so 9 isnt that bad. You also need to realize 9 hours isnt full of attempts. It involves respecing reforging regemming and discussing strats.

They are also doing it undergeared as to what the gear expected to kill it in is designed for. They can do it because they are good players and know how to play the game.


with all due respect, if paragon takes more time to down a boss than blood legion, it's overtuned.


Thats the typical have no proof but will just make stuff up to say its overtuned.

Looks like a guild Moonz killed it in 5 hours. So what does that mean?

You have no clue as to what went on during those 11 hours. For all we know they could have took a sleep break and actually killed it on their first attempt at it. (highly unlikely but still).

Thats the problem with the 10 man raiders. You dont use any actually evidence that shows thats somethings overtuned. Instead you make up stuff that has nothing to actually do with it. 25 mans have killed it and 10 mans havent so its overtuned! More 25 man guilds have killed it than 10 mans its overtuned! A higher percentage of 25 mans have killed it than 10 mans so its overtuned. 25 mans can class stack and 10 mans cant(which they really can, look at paragon) so its overtuned! 25 mans can run multi instances and feed their mans and 10 mans cant(again actually they can) so its overtuned. There are the same amount of adds so its overtuned.

Only on rare occasions have some actually put out real info in attempts to show its overtuned but its rare.

Paragon,blood legion, exodus, method, stars, etc all have players close to the same skill level that any one of them could get a kill first. Its not like saying that the 200th ranked 25 man guild killed it before paragon, or that it took blood legion 10-15 attempts while it took paragon 150+/- attempts.

Its ok though, now you can start the 10H Megaera is overtuned because 6 25 mans have killed it and 0 10 mans have (even though they are the same ones that killed council first also).
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90 Orc Warrior
13520
Paragon,blood legion, exodus, method, stars, etc all have players close to the same skill level that any one of them could get a kill first. Its not like saying that the 200th ranked 25 man guild killed it before paragon, or that it took blood legion 10-15 attempts while it took paragon 150+/- attempts.


Do you have any proof for this?

We have three years of proof that Paragon is on a whole 'nother level from BL, Exodus and Method. They've killed heroic end bosses like LK and Ragnaros WEEKS before the second kill. Those aren't flukes.

The problem with you is you have no idea what you're talking about and you think that because you have an opinion your opinion matters at all.
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1 Blood Elf Paladin
0
im not inclined to believe the best guild in the history of the game suddenly got bad all of a sudden.

BL is good, but not paragon/method good.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
We have three years of proof that Paragon is on a whole 'nother level from BL, Exodus and Method. They've killed heroic end bosses like LK and Ragnaros WEEKS before the second kill. Those aren't flukes.


I think you're being unfair to the current BL and Exodus. Just look at T14, the guilds you mentioned all completed the tier within days of each other.
Edited by Ceddya on 3/14/2013 9:36 AM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
17805
03/14/2013 09:36 AMPosted by Ceddya
We have three years of proof that Paragon is on a whole 'nother level from BL, Exodus and Method. They've killed heroic end bosses like LK and Ragnaros WEEKS before the second kill. Those aren't flukes.


I think you're being unfair to the current BL and Exodus. Just look at T14, the guilds you mentioned all completed the tier within days of each other.

The gap may have closed but the gap still exists. Until someone proves us otherwise Paragon has been the premier raiding group over the years.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
The gap may have closed but the gap still exists. Until someone proves us otherwise Paragon has been the premier raiding group over the years.


Perhaps, but using the fact that Paragon took longer than BL to kill the boss to show that it's 'overtuned' on 10M seems flawed when another EU 10-man raid with lower rankings than both guilds did it in 5 hours, which is ust slightly longer than the top 25-man guilds did.
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90 Worgen Druid
17805
03/14/2013 09:53 AMPosted by Ceddya
The gap may have closed but the gap still exists. Until someone proves us otherwise Paragon has been the premier raiding group over the years.


Perhaps, but using the fact that Paragon took longer than BL to kill the boss to show that it's 'overtuned' on 10M seems flawed when another EU 10-man raid with lower rankings than both guilds did it in 5 hours, which is ust slightly longer than the top 25-man guilds did.

Oh, I'm not really using it as any metric other than I don't want to touch it after getting Horridon, lol. STRAIGHT TO TORTOS! But we won't really know much of anything until the dust settles.
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90 Orc Warrior
13520
03/14/2013 09:53 AMPosted by Ceddya
The gap may have closed but the gap still exists. Until someone proves us otherwise Paragon has been the premier raiding group over the years.


Perhaps, but using the fact that Paragon took longer than BL to kill the boss to show that it's 'overtuned' on 10M seems flawed when another EU 10-man raid with lower rankings than both guilds did it in 5 hours, which is ust slightly longer than the top 25-man guilds did.


Moonz may have had more paladins available or something. Either way, you're right that it is very hard to compare guilds like this but at the end of the day I am still convinced that paragon just plain better than everyone else.
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90 Orc Warrior
13520
Gone are the days of simple bosses with disgusting dps requirements. I hope.
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