Being A Jerk is An Important Part Of Gaming?

90 Blood Elf Paladin
12890
I think there's room for good banter in any competitive environment, I think we should try to avoid the political correctness slope at all costs, that's only going to make things less fun for everyone, grow a thicker skin people.

That said I think it's perfectly reasonable to punish those who say things with the intent to offend, and it really isn't that hard to tell the difference between those who are just playing around, and those just being jerks for the sake of being jerks
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90 Human Mage
1140
Having jerks is so important in gaming. Its the difference between wiping a few times in a pug dungeon run with people who dont know how to play, or getting things done quickly by blurting out the (and sometimes kicking) the problem.

Same thing with raid teams, don't sugar coat peoples mistakes or they'll think their frequent screw ups are "okay."

All im saying is being too nice can hurt peoples game play also, sometimes boasting is well deserved.


Complete difference between being a jerk and being .... well professional. I own a business, when I fire someone because they aren't hauling their own weight.. I don't have to be a posterior fedora about it.. But I can be truthful and professional. Two totally different things.
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90 Pandaren Monk
11705
No wonder the kids are the way they are today..

I would've gotten my butt whooped if I talked like the kids talk today..
then again, when I was a kid there weren't school shootings or back talk in schools..


Yup, it's apparently child abuse to whip your child. Don't see how or why, personally. I got my mouth washed out with soap for cussing before I was a teenager. If I did something wrong, I got my butt whooped when dad got home. Bad grades? Grounded. Sent to my room. No television. No video games. No movies. No phone calls. No allowance.

Am I scarred for life? No. Not in the very least. I learned to respect people, to take responsibility for my actions, both good and bad. I think I can say I grew up to be a pretty decent woman.

Unfortunately, it's like Thorodan said; it's easy to be a jerk to someone who was a jerk to you first. Some days it's easy to ignore them and move on, and some days I stop and get just as mean as they are.
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90 Draenei Shaman
12740
Just the other night, someone asked a simple question in chat, and the first response he got was "google it, noob". It was a questiong that required a YES or NO reply, but instead of being nice or helpful, it was "cooler" to just slam the person questioning.


When I see someone asking a perfectly innocent question in chat I always whisper them the answer they need.

We have a guy in our guild who constantly tells people they should know the answer to any question they ask in guild and if they don't then they should google it.

I got so annoyed with him saying that to other people that I started saying the same thing every time he asked something in guild. I didnt realise up till that point how many things he actually asked and was telling him to google things every 10 minutes or so. It didn't take long for him to get annoyed with me. He obviously didn't see the irony.

Its not going to kill people to be polite. Someone posted earlier that if the net was bought out in the 50s or 60s it would be no different but I completely disagree. Back then it was Very Bad Mannered to be impolite to people and as a consequence you were eventually cut from your social circle if your behavior didn't improve. The reason we are seeing this come up so often now is because its become the norm for people to be rude instead of the exception. And some of us are just plain fed up with it.
Edited by Aalea on 3/19/2013 6:22 PM PDT
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90 Undead Warrior
8675
This was a conversation from another forum that was actually pretty interesting, curious to see what people say here.

Recently there have been a few incidents in the esports world where players/members have acted like complete dbags and have been widely publicised regarding it.

Whether it was the Corpsegrinder incident a few years ago at Blizzcon, Destiny's infamous hatespeech online (getting him bounced from team to team), other pro players having their 'little moments' or a certain LoL pro getting a massive ban for being a douche in random games, this stuff always seems to be discussed.

Now in nearly all of these cases, the relevant discussions have had a *lot* of people who defended these individuals, especially these days of youtube celebrities and streaming. Not because they like them, but because they find them entertaining - and often someone says something along the lines of 'being a jerk is an important part of gaming tradition' and is the only thing that stops it from being boring. That players should have personalities, even if that personality is being an utter salty douchebag. Because, after all, "it's just a game".

I see a lot of this being used to justify some pretty obnoxious stuff in WoW, whether it's a certain well known guild using a phasing trick to constantly crash the opposite faction's capital or shut down the new daily hub, or someone like Corpsegrinder telling Alliance players to die IRL, a lot of people wheel out the 'just a game and rivalry is good for it, or else we lose our gaming culture'.

I don't know. Okay, some friendly banter can be entertaining, but I don't find antics like some of the crap we've seen in WoW/the gaming world in general cool in the least. I also cannot seperate everything somoene says online with their personalities IRL. I'm really happy that communities and organizations are cracking down on this stuff, whether it being banning people from the ladder for spouting garbage or penalizing them in their esports careers. I think that it's needed if people ever want to get rid of the image of the 'emotionally damaged manchild progamer' and make gaming into a slightly more respected passtime.

TL/DR: What do you think? Is being a jerk an important part of gaming? Or should companies/communities/organizations continue to take steps to enforce a minimum standard of behaviour?

EDIT: Okay, please lets keep this on topic and constructive.


They will have to at some point. Contrary to popular belief, the majority of the human race do not act like fools the moment you put them behind a shred on anonymity. And since companies make money by catering to the majority rule of their customer base, they will be forced into enacting steps to keep those customers happy if they want to keep making a profit.

In this case, dbag players chase off other players, so Blizzard will and does crack down on people when they start messing with people.

That being said, what a lot of people consider "being jerks" on this game can be boiled down to "mean man said mean words", which imo should have been outgrown during junior high. I often wonder how many "problems" in the world could be better solved by people just getting thicker skin. I, personally, couldn't give less of a crap about what some faceless person across my WiFi thinks about me.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11400
I prefer a team environment. The childish rudeness I find in LFR lately really detracts from the game. I was in an LFR tonight where the main tank was berating people for their DPS, calling them retards, and really being mean to players.

It doesnt make the game fun to have a rude idiot in the group. In the second group I was in, I was pleased to see that after one person began berating the group and - someone let him have it then requested that all the other members eliminate the offensive jerk from the raid. I have never seen a boot so fast. From now on I think I'll take the same action.

There is no room for such things. People are here to have a good time, not put up with some childish jerk trying to make others feel bad.
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Gaming in general and the gaming industry attract social deviants.
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90 Human Warlock
9720
That's a pretty big generalisation just there.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
3485
Having been an online gamer since the mid 90's when MUDD's and Ultima Online were the only forms of mmo's, I can say from experience that online gaming has definately had a change of face over time. While the games have gotten bigger, more fun, and more widespread, the communities have really gone down the toilet


I started playing MUDs back in 92 and then the whole game was PvP, there was only one zone where player killing was not permitted, and if someone killed you they could take your stuff. Griefing went on hardcore. Behavior hasn't gotten worse, bad behavior is just more publicized.
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90 Human Warlock
9720
Though police are bad even in video games. If somebody wants to be a jerk that is there right.


It is a choice they make, whilst at the same time, they are also making a choice to behave in a socially unacceptable manner. Society determines what is acceptable and unacceptable, and claiming that any behaviour is ok because everyone has a RIGHT to do what they please are missing the whole point of what being a member of society, and a community means.
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90 Worgen Warrior
9430
Having jerks is so important in gaming. Its the difference between wiping a few times in a pug dungeon run with people who dont know how to play, or getting things done quickly by blurting out the (and sometimes kicking) the problem.

Same thing with raid teams, don't sugar coat peoples mistakes or they'll think their frequent screw ups are "okay."

All im saying is being too nice can hurt peoples game play also, sometimes boasting is well deserved.


Complete difference between being a jerk and being .... well professional. I own a business, when I fire someone because they aren't hauling their own weight.. I don't have to be a posterior fedora about it.. But I can be truthful and professional. Two totally different things.


This.

There's never a need to be a jerk. But there's definitely a need to be assertive and unafraid to confront someone when the time calls for it.
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85 Night Elf Druid
3655
TL/DR: What do you think? Is being a jerk an important part of gaming? Or should companies/communities/organizations continue to take steps to enforce a minimum standard of behaviour?


Important? I wouldn't agree with that sentiment. I would however say, many people default to irrational behavior simply because there are no real consequences or repercussions in a virtual world.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6135
Though police are bad even in video games. If somebody wants to be a jerk that is there right.


No, its not. Read Rousseau's Social Contract if you would like to understand why it is not a right. Behavior within a group needs to conform to societal norms, or you risk creating all kinds of problems.

Verbal abuse can even be prosecuted under assault laws in various jurisdictions.

You are right that thought police ARE bad, in any instance. No one should tell you how to THINK. However, "action" police are useful. Go ahead and think about how cool it would be to steal a million dollars from a bank... no harm in that. Actually do it, and you will--hopefully and most likely--find yourself in prison. Thoughts are your right, actions are your responsibility.

If you think someone is an idiot, keep that thought to yourself. The only value in saying it is to make yourself feel better/superior than that person. That's it. It is an entirely selfish behavior, with no value to anyone but you, and potential harm to the other person.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
6075
don't sugar coat peoples mistakes or they'll think their frequent screw ups are "okay."

All im saying is being too nice can hurt peoples game play also, sometimes boasting is well deserved.


Honesty without compassion is brutality.

As Dr. Neil DeGrasse Tyson says:
You can't just put the facts out there and say "Here's the facts; you're either an idiot or you're not". You have to say "Here are the facts, and here's a sensitivity to your state of mind". And those facts, plus that sensitivity, creates impact.

Being aggressive, pushy, blunt, pompous, or downright condescending does nothing other than put the other person on the defensive. In no way does it improve anyone's abilities, nor does it steer them towards improved performance. They most likely will not take your words in any sort of positive way. Best case scenario, it'll ruin someone's fun. But in the worst cases, they'll just perpetuate that negativity towards someone else. And that sort of catalyst is bad for the WoW community as a whole.
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90 Human Warlock
9720
don't sugar coat peoples mistakes or they'll think their frequent screw ups are "okay."

All im saying is being too nice can hurt peoples game play also, sometimes boasting is well deserved.


Honesty without compassion is brutality.

As Dr. Neil DeGrasse Tyson says:
You can't just put the facts out there and say "Here's the facts; you're either an idiot or you're not". You have to say "Here are the facts, and here's a sensitivity to your state of mind". And those facts, plus that sensitivity, creates impact.

Being aggressive, pushy, blunt, pompous, or downright condescending does nothing other than put the other person on the defensive. In no way does it improve anyone's abilities, nor does it steer them towards improved performance. They most likely will not take your words in any sort of positive way. Best case scenario, it'll ruin someone's fun. But in the worst cases, they'll just perpetuate that negativity towards someone else. And that sort of catalyst is bad for the WoW community as a whole.


This. Wonderfully put; I applaud how succinct this is.

There is such a misconception that to get some message across you need to beat people down to learn it, and that you are some sort of benefit to them and others for doing it.

Posting their ilvl, their damage or generally calling someone's mistakes out (heaven forbid we makes mistake) in a manner that is negatively derogatory is not to benefit them, it's to make you feel bigger about yourself.

Feel good? Time for a reality check on how you get your thrills in life as a contributing human being.
Edited by Fyreswrath on 3/20/2013 1:39 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Death Knight
10005
@ the title: Nahhh. However, being a jerk is often considered mandatory on the internet. I even thought I was the nicest person in the world before LFR was implemented. I LOVE calling jerks on their crap--especially when they're screwing up some part of a fight.

That said, we're seeing a "school bully" situation most of the time in the game. I do what I can to stand up for victims. It helps to be a smartass. :D
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90 Dwarf Monk
7645
these "people" have been getting me nastier and nastier lately, to the point i feel like I'm starting to resemble them.

Help.

For instance, i just did a lfd group to finish capping valor.

Hunter is being a general tool, taunting everything in sight, i ask him to stop politely. once. He ignores for several pulls. Then, I begin to ask without being terribly polite.

The healer says "just kick the idiot" which i think is uncalled for, so i say "what would be the point? Almost everyone in this game is a troll now."

He (the hunter) then pulls the entire next few rooms and MD's them all to me, then leaves.

After we wipe, I say, rather angrilly "see? This player base = awful people. That guy is the represntative sample. ALmost everyone in this game is that fing guy."

Healer then calls me an idiot for not kicking him. I then bring up that she also didnt kick him, so doesn't that make her an idiot?

Why was i so damn mad? this is a video game. Help me stop being a bitter jerk >.>
Edited by Aladster on 3/20/2013 3:11 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
8530
Lol, You get all the flavors like the ice cream or not...
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