Is it just me or is t15 a tad overtuned.

100 Blood Elf Paladin
18840

Any other words of wisdom you have, in case the best ele shamans in the world are doing anything else wrong?
03/17/2013 12:43 AMPosted by Naumu
See my edit: I personally feel that Healing Stream Totem is a far superior glyph for ele


Just like you feel this fight is overtuned/etc? yeah, keep going. Please.


Did you feel that that was clever? because it was entirely offtopic.
Edited by Isiildur on 3/17/2013 12:46 AM PDT
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90 Orc Death Knight
8590
I've run with several self-proclaimed normal mode groups. These are the same groups that needed the nerfs to Horridon's add health and Council health in order to down them. I feel that this is the type of group that Blizzard intends for normal modes to be tuned for. They will not down Durumu in its current state.


As far as I can tell from your previous posts, you think this boss is overtuned because everyone has to be alive the whole time to beat the enrage given the dps in an average normal mode guild.

How is that a problem? Should Blizzard tune encounter's assuming 1-2 people will be dead for most of the fight? Should normal mode encounters be possible to 8 man for a normal mode guild with great dps?

I mean, this sort of thing is exactly what casuals asked for; multiple threads were made complaining that a group could, say, do the mechanics of garalon perfectly but still wipe to the enrage (that's a close paraphrasing), and how that shouldn't be the case for normal modes. And now, it isn't. If you handle the mechanics properly you win.

How much further down is there to go from here? Players didn't want to have to dps properly, so the dps checks were lightened. Now you don't want to dps properly or do mechanics properly?

I mean, I'm not even against the idea of targeted nerfs but this seems extreme.
Edited by Jastann on 3/17/2013 12:49 AM PDT
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100 Troll Hunter
11555
Did you feel that that was clever? because it was entirely offtopic.


Actually no, it wasn't. Nice try though.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7565
03/16/2013 11:54 PMPosted by Jessaurus
Shadow Priest: Shadow Word: Pain spam?


LOL! Basically. I have time to refresh Vampiric Touch, then I SWP spam until Mind Spike or Mind Blast instant procs. I do sometimes stop for hard casted Mind Blast if that allows me to get my 3rd Shadow Orb for Devouring Plague. Don't make me relive the horrors, Isiildur :(


Mindbender helps. Also, body and soul your way to the front of the maze, refresh VT, blast. This is, admittedly, a tough fight for spriests.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9510
03/16/2013 11:53 PMPosted by Isiildur
People are really calling Durumu overtuned? I felt like he was one of the easier bosses in the instance.


And how many times did you wipe tonight before you downed it? Because you wiped 16 times prior to tonight's raid. Megaera took you 17 by the way.


Yes, we wiped whilst learning the mechanics. I, speaking alone, felt it was easy. That doesn't mean I speak for my whole raid.

Just because you wipe to a boss for a while doesn't mean you need to scream overtuned.
Edited by Wolf on 3/17/2013 1:08 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Death Knight
15825
Nah man, obviously if you don't kill it in sub 20 pulls then it's overtuned. It's not like it's a brand new raid or anything and normal modes will be the only real content for some raid guilds for two major patch cycles.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
I wiped 60 times to Elegon on Normal and it is hands down one of my favorite normal mode fights ever.

This isn't really to say that the argument above about needing half a hundred wipes to assess a fight is true - it isn't, it's just the usual condescension on this forum. I could tell immediately that Horridon and Council were not meeting their design goals as far as tuning, it didn't take even 5 pulls (and I was correct).
Edited by Mahourai on 3/17/2013 10:43 AM PDT
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100 Undead Priest
15320
I wiped 60 times to Elegon on Normal and it is hands down one of my favorite normal mode fights ever.

This isn't really to say that the argument above about needing half a hundred wipes to assess a fight is true - it isn't, it's just the usual condescension on this forum. I could tell immediately that Horridon and Council were not meeting their design goals as far as tuning, it didn't take even 5 pulls (and I was correct).
You wiped 60 times on Elegon Normal and downed Horridon in 4? That makes absolutely no sense - did you switch raid groups / guilds in between because those numbers don't add up, sir.
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90 Human Paladin
15450
You wiped 60 times on Elegon Normal and downed Horridon in 4? That makes absolutely no sense - did you switch raid groups / guilds in between because those numbers don't add up, sir.


Keep in mind when most people did Elegon they were way undergeared. Not to mention most of them were probably pretty rusty from slumming in 30% nerfed DS for almost a year. Also the raid group was probably newly formed back then, and people were still learning to work together.

To put it in perspective, first week on MV we only downed dogs. Second week Feng. So about one boss a week. This tier we did 4 bosses in week one and 5 bosses in week two. We got Qon to ice phase in 3 attempts.
Edited by Rasul on 3/18/2013 11:25 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
I wiped 60 times to Elegon on Normal and it is hands down one of my favorite normal mode fights ever.

This isn't really to say that the argument above about needing half a hundred wipes to assess a fight is true - it isn't, it's just the usual condescension on this forum. I could tell immediately that Horridon and Council were not meeting their design goals as far as tuning, it didn't take even 5 pulls (and I was correct).
You wiped 60 times on Elegon Normal and downed Horridon in 4? That makes absolutely no sense - did you switch raid groups / guilds in between because those numbers don't add up, sir.


I didn't say we defeated Horridon in 5 pulls.You don't have to beat Horridon to know it was overtuned at launch, a boss targeted at 8/16N doesn't look like that. Also it was a different raid group and the strat we were using on Elegon was wrong (we wiped for 2 days single-targeting the pillars in p2 and taking waaay too much time but almost phasing cleanly a bunch - amounted to about 10 wipes with the correct strategy).
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1 Blood Elf Paladin
0
guilds without heroic gear will struggle, as several fights are intended for well over 500+ ilvl, mechanics done perfectly or not, you still have a dps requirement.

I guess blizzard wants people to hit a wall, farm more gear, and gradually get past it. you cant faceroll it like say, terrace.
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90 Troll Hunter
7765
Its not overtuned, just more challenging mechanics wise. Which is good.
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Its not overtuned, just more challenging mechanics wise. Which is good.


I think you will find that normal mode guilds would rather it be overtuned. They are not going to mystically develop coordination; they could get valor gear in time. We're on 80 wipes on Horridon. Furthest was very start of door four. We went 16/16 so we're better than the intended audience of this boss (which is "you'll only struggle when you reach council" if you didn't get 16/16).
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90 Blood Elf Priest
0
I hate to admit it, but our experience would indicate T15 is balanced right about where Blizzard would like to see it. We're a casual guild (2 nights/week or less when life intervenes) that went 16/16N in T14. I think we're exactly the sort of guild they feel should be downing one new boss per week.

We killed Jin'rokh the first raid night, wiped on Horridon the rest of the week.

Sunday we downed Horridon with an ilvl average of 494.6 or so after a total of 31 pulls I think. Our gear is a little behind what's intended for that fight, so it took us a fully-clean run to down him (no deaths).

We got good drops for our comp and have ilvl average 498 going into council this week (we'll have more if LFR is kind). I believe we'll down it but it won't be easy.

Everything I see (reputation limits for VP gear, LFR unlock schedule, etc) tells me to expect 1 new boss per week until about 5/12 then I think we have a shot at getting two or more per week as we catch up the the gear curve we've been chasing all expansion (we started week 4 of T14 since some wanted to play monks and didn't have 4 hours per day to devote to leveling).
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95 Dwarf Death Knight
16855
after clearing normal, I didnt find many bosses to be a dps check or gear check (before people jump all over the fact I'm 515 and 16/16h, this is coming from someone who can very well extrapolate how the content would play out with ~15% less gear, which is below Lei Shen's tuning) correct execution was the most important thing.
Edited by Azane on 3/19/2013 2:27 PM PDT
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Saw that Megeara nerf coming, though they probably should have only nerfed the damage output and left the head HP alone. Using 4 healers on a 10man normal mode shouldn't be the easiest way to kill a boss.
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90 Orc Shaman
13750
My poor brain cells.
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95 Human Priest
18050
after clearing normal, I didnt find many bosses to be a dps check or gear check (before people jump all over the fact I'm 515 and 16/16h, this is coming from someone who can very well extrapolate how the content would play out with ~15% less gear, which is below Lei Shen's tuning) correct execution was the most important thing.


Maegara week one practically felt like Heroic Empress in terms of damage and healing required. Sure, we four healed and killed it, but we should not have even felt like that would make sense with our history.

P.S. We also thought you had to two heal Consorts for some reason, which made us wonder why everyone called them jokes. Amusing side story regarding number of healers.

Saw that Megeara nerf coming, though they probably should have only nerfed the damage output and left the head HP alone. Using 4 healers on a 10man normal mode shouldn't be the easiest way to kill a boss.


Agreed. I wouldn't even object to keeping the HP at the original values from week 1 but dramatically lowering some of the damage.
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