PvP Shadow 5.2

90 Undead Priest
2450
So is FDCL and Divine Insight dead? What is the spec right now? ^^
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FDCL and DI are still the best.
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90 Human Priest
0
In 2's arena

FDCL/Mind Bender and DI/Power Infusion (depends on team combination)

In 3's and RBG

FDCL and DI
Edited by Lilangeljt on 3/11/2013 8:34 PM PDT
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100 Undead Priest
7780
Tried Insanity, I am finding FDCL a lot better. Spikes can be cast on the move, while you need to root yourself for a huge amount of time to benefit from Insanity.

You could try Insanity on RBGS tho...
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100 Night Elf Priest
TnC
5895
Wow, u guys must be a bunch of PvEr's...Insanity is much better...FDCL is still just a dot and proc talent with BS rng crap, and is not dependable. Insanity gives you the ability to control when u burst; and the burst is much stronger. However FDCL might be good with some kind of shadow cleave comp just for the all around pressure. Otherwise, being able to time your (very strong) burst with your team is much more beneficial. If your complaining about having to cast, you shouldn't be playing a priest, frost mage or demo lock is clearly the class for you. Learn to pump fake and ur fine, don't just pick the talent that gives u instant cast procs out of laziness, that's silly.
And please don't take mind bender. These posts are hurting my soul right now.
I personally run SW:I and DI...but Power Infusion works too if u like it. But anyone telling u FDCL is the best, or mindbender is ever even viable, needs to reroll another class.
#SMH
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90 Troll Priest
4770
I 100 % agree ohhh but if you play a good player you will be stunned. Well we have similar abilities too, How about you time your mind flay, lets say when you have used your pysfiend, they have burned cooldown, then fear.

Watch the enemy die while they can do nothing about it!

Oh but orbs are hard to get........wow go play a mage!
Edited by Izlo on 3/12/2013 7:03 AM PDT
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90 Human Priest
0
But anyone telling u FDCL is the best, or mindbender is ever even viable, needs to reroll another class.


Doctapurp as I said in my post for 2's depending on your enemies team combination it might be viable to use Mindbender.

If you play against a good warrior and rogue combination (melee cleaves) you will be very lucky to get Vampiric touch for FDCL off and enough Shadow Orbs to use your SW:I.

However again I posted it is more recommended for 3's and RBG that players use FDCL because in these fights their is more pressure providing openings for your dots and SW:I.
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100 Night Elf Priest
TnC
5895
[quote]If you play against a good warrior and rogue combination (melee cleaves) you will be very lucky to get Vampiric touch for FDCL off and enough Shadow Orbs to use your SW:I


FDCL gives u midspike procs, mindspike does nothing for shadow orbs, making VT irrelevant for using insanity...idk what point ur trying to make other than proving my point even further for me...

Yes, in RBGs and certain team comps in arena, as I said earlier, FDCL might be useful for the sole purpose of heavier multi-target pressure and to pressure the healer(s) more. Very specific scenario and role to be filled though.

However I still can't agree with you on mind bender. The mana return is sub par, and the damage output (compared to shadowfiend) is insignificant...a trinketed shadowfiend is critting for 30k plus.
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90 Undead Priest
9845
The spec varies:

Arena Spec:
1: Roots
2: Phantasm (5 second freedom, removes slow) / Body & Soul (if going against caster comp to dot and kite around pillars)
3: MB against classes with interupts every few seconds: Mages, DKs, Warlocks, Enhance shammy.
3: Insanity against teams where they won't be interupting much: IE low level capping in 2's and such.
4: Spectral guise. No exception Angelic Bulwark when being focused doesn't give enough of a lead when you can just spectral guise, get off a free VT/SW:P on the target. Or even drop targets of the player 100% of the time against ranged. Juking warriors; Spec guise is still the #1 talent this tier in everything but PvE.
5: DI or if using SW:I you should go with PI because the burst capabilities are high.
6: Divine Star. Lower cooldown than halo and cascade, heals you approximately 60k, damages them about 20k, heals your team-mate 25-30k x2. Removes enemies from stealth.

Glyphs:
Dark Binding
Mass Dispel

Optional:
Vampiric Embrace - Your VE will now heal 100% your damage, best used while bursting a target, and you're low HP.
Inner Sanctum - 6% reduced damage from spell attacks.

BGS/RBGS spec:

1: Roots / Psyfiend (psyfiend only fears one, it was a buff to RBG fearing) Just remember people CC psyfiends.
2: Body & Soul: Helps your FC get around faster if you life grip him, or if you put a shield on him.
3: Solace and Insanity; Although FDCL gives you multiple procs of mind spike; you rarely if ever kill someone outside focused bursts in higher RBG levels. So the additional single target burst while popping all your offensives makes this the go-to talent to get some kills.
4: Spectral Guise - Drops target if you are being focused. Spec Guise -> PW:S to run away, and reset the fight. Hide in back to cast.
5: Divine insight - No exceptions.
6: Cascade; or if you're on the 'kill squad' to go secure bases/kill EFC's, go with Halo.

Glyphs:
Dark Binding
Mass Dispel (since thats the primary role of a Spriest to turn the game quicker)

Optional:
Vampiric Embrace
Mind Blast - Your MB crits now root the target for up to 4 seconds, shares a DR with void tendrils. Helps if you have a melee cleave / pesky healer who likes running away.

If you're bad at not being focused:
Inner fire, Inner Sanctum (direct defensive glyphs)

Psychic Horror to lower the CD for the disarm on melee (passive defensive)

As always: Reforge priority

6% spell hit > Haste > 10%+ Crit > more crit =/ mastery

If having problems conserving mana, reforge for more mastery.

More mastery = more chances for VT to tick twice = double mana return.

Reforge priority goes off of the level 45 talents; insanity requires a higher focus into crit because of the direct help towards your burst.

10% crit is mandatory before moving anywhere else as it has proven in multiple battlegrounds to lead to a direct over-all damage as well as direct push.. but you'll be a bit starved on mana if you're forced to use off heals.
Edited by Lustx on 3/12/2013 9:00 AM PDT
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90 Undead Priest
4890
Holy crap Im going to try some of those ideas Lustx, nice!
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90 Undead Priest
9845
Holy crap Im going to try some of those ideas Lustx, nice!


Just remember:

Gemming also gives shadow priests direct defensive or power returns:

PvP power increases your damage done 1% : 320 up until the maximum possible power, 18,000.

Resilience also seems to have a diminishing value somewhere between 8000-10,000 for our class, I just haven't found the exact number yet.

5.1 my resilience in my current gear would have granted 69.2% resilience (i'm a blacksmith)
Which right now, it's giving me 67.2%. (gemmed for resil, but not sacrificing sockets, still 9859/11000 possible for me)

Classes with passive defensive forms (shadow priests/boomkins 15% damage reduction) who are capable of still pushing out heavy DPS (dk's are excluded because melee is thrown into the fight 24/7) are allowed to sometimes lose some resilience in order to increase their power.

15% damage reduction after 65% resilience translates into approximately 4% resilience.

Ever since the new scaling of resilience implemented in 5.2 the gear has changed *slightly* for boomkins and shadow priests; the aim should be somewhere between 7500-8000 for priests in battlegrounds, and boomkins around 8000-8500 (they stand out A LOT more than a shadow priest in shadow form would.. plus we blend with our apparitions). By 'the new resilience scaling' I mean that lower resilience gives more over-all resilience.

Previous to 5.1; my 'burst set' was 61.2% resilience, 57.72% power (53.5% with a trinket)
5.2 my resilience is 63.7% in the same gear, same resilience points (7507) and the power remained the same. You can see this if you gear up an alt, getting 4 piece mal you can have 63% resilience; its to lower the 'gear disparity' between classes. (take in mind, every point of resilience after 60% translates into 2.5-2.7% reduced damage overall per point with a diminished value at 70%)

This being said, Shadow Priests can 'cheat' gearing for pure resilience in battlegrounds (rated) because we are still elusive classes.. minus invulnerable to ranged attacks until we spec guise every 30 seconds.

But in Arena's, unless you do battlegrounds mostly, or have an incredibly good partner for CC's (I roll Spriest/Warrior or mage, maybe Demo Warlocks) You are going to need a lot of resilience to stay alive. To push rating, you NEED resilience for the simple reason, people stack resilience in arena's to force the enemy team to attack a target taking approximately 1:3rd/33% of all incoming damage. (67% resil).

In general.. the rules for shadow priest gemming with our passive defensives, we don't NEED to be gemming resilience unless you are good at your class AND pushing rating.

It's actually WORSE for us to stack resilience in battlegrounds unless you're being a straight up idiot rushing into their entire team, over extending, in an attempt to get a fear bomb (which you should only do after a solar beam, vortex, ring, and even then RoP would be a better option). It's arguable for 2's too, since in 2's if your with a good partner you can just blow the enemy up before they have any idea what to do (for capping).

3's - gem resilience, up to about 65% would be safe.
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90 Undead Priest
8845
@LustX -

I'm sitting at 9779 Resil per my armory. I didn't forgo any socket bonuses, but prioritized resil. I was planning on doing both RBG and arena, with arena's being casual and RBG being far more of a priority.

I've read various conflicting accounts of this. Some say gem pure resil no matter the scenario. Some say PvP power > all. Some say int > pvp power.

I'm curious what you have to say about this. I've just gotten back into priest, and exclusively pvp, and have been looking for some kind of solid info for gemming for RBG's directly.

It seems you're advocating getting around 7500-8000 resil for RBG's. My question would be, do you replace with Int or PvP power? Is there a stat weight break down I haven't found?

Also, would it be worth it to get some PvE DPS trinket to replace a PvP trinket? The only real one would be the high PvP power one, since the anti-cc one is rather mandatory.
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90 Undead Priest
9845
@LustX -

I'm sitting at 9779 Resil per my armory. I didn't forgo any socket bonuses, but prioritized resil. I was planning on doing both RBG and arena, with arena's being casual and RBG being far more of a priority.

I've read various conflicting accounts of this. Some say gem pure resil no matter the scenario. Some say PvP power > all. Some say int > pvp power.

I'm curious what you have to say about this. I've just gotten back into priest, and exclusively pvp, and have been looking for some kind of solid info for gemming for RBG's directly.

It seems you're advocating getting around 7500-8000 resil for RBG's. My question would be, do you replace with Int or PvP power? Is there a stat weight break down I haven't found?

Also, would it be worth it to get some PvE DPS trinket to replace a PvP trinket? The only real one would be the high PvP power one, since the anti-cc one is rather mandatory.


With the idea of focusing primarily on 2's (capping arena pts/week then going to RBG) you'd want to focus primarily on power but not sacrificing anything..

Assuming you have full malev (most of my mal is from s12 double upgraded)

The gem sockets go as follows:

META - Burning Primal Diamond
Red Sockets - Intellect + Power (mysterious)
Blue - PvP Power (forgot name)
Yellow - PvP Resilience and Power (vivid)
Prismatic - PvP Power

Mind you: You'll still be enchanting your chest with the +200 resilience enchant.

Jade Spirit on weapon
Int on bracers (or mastery)
Haste enchant on gloves
Pandaren step on boots
Greater Spellthread on legs
Greater Crane Wing enchant on shoulders (or secret if you're an inscrip like me)

Technically, the BiS wrists are unobtainable in PvP, the heroic wrists available from HoT prove to become an increasingly better item compared to tyrannical. (+300 intellect and +150 main stats over it) yet would require you to gem it with a vivid gem or pure resil gem.

The style of stacking PvP is you NEED to play more defensive though, I like to call it more of a "glass cannon spec" as if you're interupted; which isn't likely in BG's if you're not on the very front lines of where eveyrones fighting, then you're going to die. Plus you need some healers that you can trust.. so If you're running RBG randoms, I suggest stacking resilience anyway; for the simple reason some healers are just idiots.

Some effective RBG styles:
Defensive; control(doesn't matter what PvP Power you are)
keep VT on all targets, with SW:P (this is one of the SMALL places where FDCL would be good over insanity) and use mass dispel ON COOLDOWN against them when its a big AoE pull (it removes one buff from each target affected, or one debuff from a friendly affected; up to a maximum of 10 targets. / might be more since our max AoE hittable targets got buffd from 10-20 for all classes 5.2.) This is the common role RBG leaders selling carries to shadow priests want.. because they're basically just asking you to be a dot protection and mass dispeller. You will be using Psyfiend for this spec, its used to CC people in RBGS; it only affects a target once now so it will hit 5-6 DIFFERENT people for a full 5 second duration. (psyfiends fear is lower than other forms of fear) Try to root players inside of a boomkins solar beam if possible if you choose void tendrils over this.

Offensive; Control Same playstyle as above, you should be stacking power for this. Your job is to use Cascade ON COOLDOWN, and dot up multiple targets. When your team is AoE gripped into a RoF or if a dot cleave has dots on multiple of your RBG team; you move outside of your group, and cast mass dispel on them. (call it out so a healer can dispel you right after). This allows you to change the pressure on dot cleaves as the damage they need to do has been greatly reduced as now they need to re-apply everything in the time it'll take you to ge t another mass dispel.. then you do it again. NOTE: you also use mass dispel on pallys when they bubble, or mages when they block. 0.4 seconds and its dispelled before they realize it. (fast reflexes help) You will be using a Psyfiend in this spec, you have to place it close to the battle but somewhat out of sight so its not just 1 shot out of nowhere.

Full out Offensive Don't use in RBGs, unless its the worthless 1-1500 bracket where people don't know how to play even coming into it. You stack power, dot everything, and ONLY mass dispel if your team is in a RoF. When there are multiple people within 5-15 yards from eachother (atleast 3) you Mind Sear. Cascade on cooldown, only use MD for when people bubble. This is where the MB glyph comes in handy, it helps your team focus a healer.. plus if you crit a healer with MB while he's in a boomkins solar beam you can pretty much gaurantee heavy starter pressure with the extra 4 second root. Take note: Mind Sear WILL break CC's, polymorphs, fears, ETC. which is why you shouldn't use it in higher rated RBGS even though it allows for a FAR greater damage done. (I can easily break 15M/game, over 20M easily if they have somewhat decent healers)

PvP trinkets are BiS. PvE trinkets are based on a RPPM random procs per minute, with a significantly less chance to proc in PvP environments than PvE. So even if the item gives you say 10,000 spell power, but it takes 8 minutes to come off cooldown..
Your on-use trinket could have come back 8x giving you 18Kish SP in the same amount of time + a passive PvP power boost. The PvE trinket also might just never even proc at all; so despite it being heroic.. it could be just worthless. They nerf'd trinkets PPM before such as cunning of the cruel for lv 86's vs lv 85's.. same trinket, but less PPM.
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90 Undead Priest
8845
Some good info in there, thanks for the response.

Thoughts on offensive dispel spam? Not worth the global vs dotting?
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90 Blood Elf Priest
11465
solace and insanity is so much fun. FDCL could be the better choice in a 3v3 scenario if you're going to get trained, but if you're getting trained it will be hard to get off any VTs. therefore insanity indirectly encourages smarter playstyle (i.e setting up ccs to burst instead of instant cast spam)

and it isn't difficult to juke in a casual scenario(bgs), most mongoloids will spam their interrupt as soon as they see a cast bar. and you won't have a problem casting insanity in rbgs because smart teams will focus their interrupts on healers.

and honestly, FDCL is boring. if you like instant cast spam you'd have more fun playing a mage (har har)
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90 Undead Priest
9845
Some good info in there, thanks for the response.

Thoughts on offensive dispel spam? Not worth the global vs dotting?


Honestly, it depends. If my RBG team decides to send me on the "kill squad" to kill the EFC, I'll dot up the EFC, start purging, fear the healer, preferably through a wall, root them, then start dpsing FC. if the FC gets out of the roots, silence him..

Usually me and the other DPS can win within the first 1-3minutes of an encounter against a FC..

It's the fact that dispel magic is VERY VERY situational. During a burst 'kill target' its better to be focusing your damage on them rather than to be spamming dispel magic. Unless its a team like a resto druid, monk, then purging with your shaman (you should have a shaman.. they're over powered in support) will atleast make them have to struggle harder to get them up. But because shadow has insanity, its NOT worth the potential of critting 40-60k mind flays with your burst.

But against an EFC where he has every buff in-game, and you know they can only re-apply; let's say blessing of kings. It's worth it to purge off his other 7 buffs, or a eternal flame hot or something significant (especially against a disc priest healer) than it would be to just start out bursting them.
If it can give you a drastic advantage quickly, then its worth it. If dispel magic dispelled 1 beneficial spell from everyone around it, it would be worth the mana and GCD to use in clashes.. but that's why mass dispel is so awesome.

Your offensive dispels IS mainly mass dispel, as it removes 1 buff from EVERYONE, and people RARELY, if ever, re-apply their buffs periodically through a battleground unless it is called out in skype/mumble/vent. Over time this can add up drastically, a buffed up team versus a totally unbuffed team (remember, only 8 buffs in the game, which is about 2 minutes of a clash) can lead to a massive DPS difference if the other priest isn't performing or if the other team isn't purging your team too.. even if your team is careless in re-applying dots.

So if you run double shadow priest: Every minute you can make the enemy team have essentially NO buffs up. Too bad double shadow priest is a bad composition though.
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Wow, u guys must be a bunch of PvEr's...Insanity is much better...FDCL is still just a dot and proc talent with BS rng crap, and is not dependable. Insanity gives you the ability to control when u burst; and the burst is much stronger. However FDCL might be good with some kind of shadow cleave comp just for the all around pressure. Otherwise, being able to time your (very strong) burst with your team is much more beneficial. If your complaining about having to cast, you shouldn't be playing a priest, frost mage or demo lock is clearly the class for you. Learn to pump fake and ur fine, don't just pick the talent that gives u instant cast procs out of laziness, that's silly.
And please don't take mind bender. These posts are hurting my soul right now.
I personally run SW:I and DI...but Power Infusion works too if u like it. But anyone telling u FDCL is the best, or mindbender is ever even viable, needs to reroll another class.
#SMH


Sigh.. I really hope no one is actually taking this guy seriously..

Purp.. you have never played in the 3's arena on your priest. You fail to realize that DP will get dispelled at higher rated play. Also, Insanity ticks for about 21k. Save up two MS procs before you burst and you have already out damaged insanity. 1 MS proc = about 39k dmg. With 2, that brings you up to around 80k dmg WITHOUT the possibility of being interrupted.

And unless you are a random BG hero, you are gemmed wrong buddy.
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90 Worgen Priest
8530
Wow, u guys must be a bunch of PvEr's...Insanity is much better...FDCL is still just a dot and proc talent with BS rng crap, and is not dependable. Insanity gives you the ability to control when u burst; and the burst is much stronger. However FDCL might be good with some kind of shadow cleave comp just for the all around pressure. Otherwise, being able to time your (very strong) burst with your team is much more beneficial. If your complaining about having to cast, you shouldn't be playing a priest, frost mage or demo lock is clearly the class for you. Learn to pump fake and ur fine, don't just pick the talent that gives u instant cast procs out of laziness, that's silly.
And please don't take mind bender. These posts are hurting my soul right now.
I personally run SW:I and DI...but Power Infusion works too if u like it. But anyone telling u FDCL is the best, or mindbender is ever even viable, needs to reroll another class.
#SMH


Sigh.. I really hope no one is actually taking this guy seriously..

Purp.. you have never played in the 3's arena on your priest. You fail to realize that DP will get dispelled at higher rated play. Also, Insanity ticks for about 21k. Save up two MS procs before you burst and you have already out damaged insanity. 1 MS proc = about 39k dmg. With 2, that brings you up to around 80k dmg WITHOUT the possibility of being interrupted.

And unless you are a random BG hero, you are gemmed wrong buddy.


Actually he is right. Rogues are very strong and offer alot of control making it much easier for you to cast. Rogue Spriest Shaman is going to be very strong this season. PI/Insanity will prolly be the best talents if your going to run with a rogue because the on demand higher burst that PI/Insanity gives you is better. This isnt even coming from me this is coming from one of the best spriests in the world (craze) and this is what he said would work best if your playing with a rogue and he said FDCL/DI will prolly be better if your playing shatterplay or maybe even shadowcleave if that comp makes a comeback this season.
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90 Undead Priest
8560
@lustx

I'm not seeing anywhere close to 40-60k on insanity vs geared players. Even w/dmg trink & lightweave up. Maybe through the whole channel if its critting.

I tested it on a few geared guild members recently, was exceptionally dissapointed.

My experience was, (in testing 1v1) trink+ bender + purge (vs mage shield / druid hots) and swp spam (for first tick dmg) did roughly 2x dmg with no interupts.

The highest insanity tick i saw was 21k, with trink up and them facing away with 0 defensives...in full mal. Granted bender was only hitting for 17k, but i could los, avoid dmg and gain mana + dmg every minute. If i dispel the ice barrier...i do more dmg in 1 swp than a 6 gcd insanity would.

Same for pally absorbs, disc shield, earthshield, druid hots. Even just a fort takes 10% hp off in 1 gcd dispel. In testing vs non random bg players, insanity seems to be terrible for pvp. I javent seen any high rated priests opt for it either and skillcapped forums seem to lean fdlc/bender.

Honestly i thing solace was > in 5.1 for pvp. It only cut an instant cast by 1/3rd and was a guaranteed 60k dmg, and u didnt have to stand still for an eternity to use it, screaming for an interupt/burst opportunity.
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