Season 12 RBGs, Cheaters, and Rewards.

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90 Human Priest
18395
Anyone who did RBGs on a regular basis knows you did nothing at all. You banned players who were unintentionally involved in a problem you didn't fix for months. In addition, a huge percent of the legitimate high end players who should have gotten Hero of the Horde/Alliance missed out on it because you didn't remove the obvious exploiters. There are still people sitting on the ladder, who are not banned, and received a Hero title with their 3k rating and negative win/loss ratio. These are obvious exploiters, and if you had taken any amount of time to look into this, they would have been immediately banned.

It disgusts me that you even try to come in here and spin your actions in a positive manner when all you did was fail an entire community.


/thread
Community Manager
03/15/2013 12:50 PMPosted by Serious
really weird that the Original post got deleted by a moderator, yet you can read it being quoted in the first blue post. i sense this topic will soon be fed to the forum yeti


Yep. I don't know why my first post was deleted lol. It still shows up in Nethaera's response to me. Shrug.


The original poster can delete as well, though I'm not sure if this is what occurred. I've continued to read btw. I just don't have anything more that I can add to the discussion right now. I'll continue to keep an eye on this discussion among others.
100 Orc Hunter
17005
I'm curious, where is the evidence of CHEATING here? How do you know the people you identified as "unworthy" of their rbg ratings wintraded or exploited in any way?

You realize it's perfectly fine to get carried in arenas raids challenge modes or rbgs, either by friends or people selling these services for gold?


It's obvious there were players cheating the system when their Win/Loss Ratio shows them losing more games then winning.

I've gone 6-0 in a night and at most, moved up the ladder 100-150 points. These jokers who got titles lose 9 games, win 5 and get titles? Really???????

It's blatant cheating and they don't deserve it. It diminishes the value of people who actually got the title legitimate and now they are all looked at, the legit and the cheaters, as schmucks who win traded and exploited to get their titles.

And this kind of cheating makes one wonder what that says about a Premier Game in the Industry? Is the Benchmark Gold Standard of MMO's full of Cheaters at the highest of levels. What does it say about World First Guilds? What does it say about anyone who plays at the highest of levels? The same people get titles over and over, is that fair? Is it even real? Is it staged? Do the "stars" and "pros" of WoW get preferential treatment? How do we know they don't?

I <3 Blizzard Entertainment; the history, the humble beginnings, and the Games they created so I say these things with all due respect. This company is proof of the American Dream. And because of that, I want the game to be fair, not full of cheaters.
100 Orc Death Knight
16420
Blizzard, pay 5 college students $12 an hour to check anyone in the top several percent for irregularities. Anything they flag can have one of your CS pro's double check and either dismiss or permaban. This is such a ridiculously preventable issue, doubly so considering this isn't exactly new
Edited by Heartlis on 3/15/2013 3:34 PM PDT
100 Gnome Warlock
8075
Blizzard, pay 5 college students $12 an hour to check anyone in the top several percent for irregularities. Anything they flag can have one of your CS pro's double check and either dismiss or permaban. This is such a ridiculously preventable issue, doubly so considering this isn't exactly new
90 Human Death Knight
7580
I'm curious, where is the evidence of CHEATING here? How do you know the people you identified as "unworthy" of their rbg ratings wintraded or exploited in any way?

You realize it's perfectly fine to get carried in arenas raids challenge modes or rbgs, either by friends or people selling these services for gold?


With records like 11-7 and 9-8 it's completely impossible to attain those rating normally without exploiting in some fashion. I shall explain it for you. Maximum pts per RBG win is 192*, now you do the math. 11 or 9 wins at 192 rating per win ... lol HoTA title, seems legit right? Sure if you are completely blind or retarded.

So the maximum points achievable for 9 wins is 1728, not 2850 lol
and for 11 wins it is 2112, not 2.7k. 5 wins definitely does not equal 2.7k, mathematical impossibilities dictate they cheated. This is the ONLY possible solution.

*(IF the team you beat is always at least a couple of hundred rating above you to get maximum allowable points per win, which is also impossible at 3k CR because there AREN'T any normal teams above that rating in US servers, on Korean or Russian servers sure, but then again its common knowledge those have the highest incidence of exploiters, you should have seen the records on the top of the Korean servers that were posted on AJ)

Also this thread will be shutdown soon because it points out the glaringly appalling job Blizzard has done policing PvP exploits and exploiters. You heard it here folks.
Edited by Erunbauko on 3/15/2013 6:57 PM PDT
90 Undead Warrior
18120
This is ridiculous;

Over on EU there are people with Gladiator that are playing toons entirely in greens and PvE blues. This rampant cheating isn't even restricted to RBG's.
(I can't link the armoury as it's obviously against the ToU but he's there.)

What's the point of even trying to climb ladders to get the only rewards when there are so many people buying, win-trading, DDoSing and exploting their way to these things?
The player-base themselves seem to be better at finding these people than employees - Which is something I rarely say. I am legitimately concerned because I had to deal with this in RBG's this season while it was my only venue for PvP - And now I'm seeing it in arenas as I'm about to pick them up for the first time.

Are we going to move away from Ladder play for the tangible rewards or something? Or are things actually going to be fixed? (Which is going to be hard considering participation.)
Because at this rate it's extremely hard to take anybody with the high titles seriously when it's common knowledge to PvPers of all skill levels that a good chunk of ".5%'s" aren't even playing their own toon or wintraded.
90 Undead Warlock
9445
calm down folks, this isnt the first nor the last time there will be an end of season controversy.
although we have to give props where props is due... this is the most in yo face! pvp sensation in recent memory. its shenanigans like this that helped me decide to give up on ranked competitive progression in the World of Warcraft.
100 Goblin Rogue
15925


The original poster can delete as well, though I'm not sure if this is what occurred. I've continued to read btw. I just don't have anything more that I can add to the discussion right now. I'll continue to keep an eye on this discussion among others.


It was deleted by the moderator, the alt-o-magic addon tells you whether the poster deleted it or the moderator since it's hidden in the website's API otherwise. The add-on stated that it was deleted by a moderator.

Also, can you directly respond to Rainbow's post please? You stated earlier that you "punished those you were able to identify," but here we have seen that almost no one was punished, so does this mean that you essentially weren't able to positively identify ANY wintraders (especially considering the ones above 2800 CR are incredibly obvious lol?)
I assume they take their time in these situations to try find all the players involved with the exploitation (assuming they worked with several groups), which would take time, instead of banning the individual right then and there. However, I would like to know what they are going to do to those who got cheated out of their hard earned prizes to remedy the situation. Will they count all the cheaters and redistribute the prizes to those who earned them, or will they just ban the cheaters and wash their hands of this.
Community Manager


It was deleted by the moderator, the alt-o-magic addon tells you whether the poster deleted it or the moderator since it's hidden in the website's API otherwise. The add-on stated that it was deleted by a moderator.

Also, can you directly respond to Rainbow's post please? You stated earlier that you "punished those you were able to identify," but here we have seen that almost no one was punished, so does this mean that you essentially weren't able to positively identify ANY wintraders (especially considering the ones above 2800 CR are incredibly obvious lol?)


It's been restored.

I can't give specifics on the actions taken. It's not something we normally do though I know people would like those specifics. There definitely were actions taken against players. We had to positively identify them as abusing the system and it's not always cut and dry. Again, we're not simply ignoring it or letting it slide. We will continue to work toward better ways to address it. It's just not going to happen overnight as much as any of us would like it to. We want to make sure that when we do take action to improve the system that those actions are the best possible ones.
100 Human Mage
15920
Is the Benchmark Gold Standard of MMO's full of Cheaters at the highest of levels
Yes, has been since people exploited the first boss in MC shortly after MC was released.

03/15/2013 03:31 PMPosted by Rexzoolza
What does it say about World First Guilds?
Many world firsts are tainted by cheating and exploits.

03/15/2013 03:31 PMPosted by Rexzoolza
What does it say about anyone who plays at the highest of levels?
Lack of morals. Those driven to win will do so at any costs usually. Look at Lance Armstrong as a example.

03/15/2013 03:31 PMPosted by Rexzoolza
The same people get titles over and over, is that fair?
For a few it is, for many they exploit and are left alone for various reasons.

Do the "stars" and "pros" of WoW get preferential treatment? How do we know they don't?
Simply put, yes they do. The "star" players in pvp and pve often go lightly punished or unpunished when someone like you or me may end up with account closures and this is after the "star" players have multiple violations.
90 Blood Elf Priest
11465
the accolade system in this game is a joke. the rank 1/gladiator spots are monopolized by tournament players/exploiters, and the RBG ladders are clogged by exploiters.

what really gets me is looking back at the season 3 title distribution, an average of 400 teams per battlegroup were getting gladiator. let me emphasize a little bit more on that.. FOUR HUNDRED TEAMS. and in season 12, an average of 12 teams got gladiator. what gives guys
55 Orc Death Knight
0
I love how you guys tell us to identify them when that is your job. Pay me and ill keep watch of the brackets, like damn. I don't think you realize how much this has affected mist pvp. The aftershock from all this bleeds into season 13 because you decided to keep t2 upgraded from s12 better than t1 of next season.
90 Orc Warrior
11360
It's been restored.

I can't give specifics on the actions taken. It's not something we normally do though I know people would like those specifics. There definitely were actions taken against players. We had to positively identify them as abusing the system and it's not always cut and dry. Again, we're not simply ignoring it or letting it slide. We will continue to work toward better ways to address it. It's just not going to happen overnight as much as any of us would like it to. We want to make sure that when we do take action to improve the system that those actions are the best possible ones.


Nelth you talk about future changes and how to improve and bans, but what many of us are focused on is whether or not blizzard actually cares enough to redistribute titles. If you guys don't give a our fairly earned titles it will be a bit disappointing and the staff will be looked down upon, kind of like how the season was looked down upon.
My two copper pieces here...

How about changing up the rating system to a basis of most games played and highest ratio of wins and losses?

I'll stick to non-rated BGs in the meantime...
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