Mana Neutral Heal?

90 Dwarf Shaman
7455
It seems I've gotten to the point in gear/spirit where my healing wave is more or less mana neutral. In the time it takes to cast it, ive regen'd back almost all of the mana to cast it, and when you factor in resurgence, it ends up being mana positive.

Essentially, I've found that from the start of the fight, as long as i can stand still, i can constantly cast healing wave on everyone as a filler, and with glyph of healing wave, I heal myself quite a bit as well. Obviously when the situation calls for it I can riptide->GHW, or healing surge, or use a cooldown, and i keep UE->HR and HST down on CD, but I've just noticed that this has been a relatively large bump in my healing to essentially have a mana free heal as a filler spell.

Do all healers reach a point in gear where they have a similar option? Is this a shaman specific thing?
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Priest
12955
Do all healers reach a point in gear where they have a similar option? Is this a shaman specific thing?

Some healers (paladins in particular) have unusually-expensive small heals, but everyone will eventually reach a point where their mana remains stable while casting their small heal.

"Mana-free" is a misnomer, however. These spells still cost mana; if you cast them, you still have less mana available for other spells. For classes that have better uses for their mana (holy/disc priests, druids), wasting mana on spamming single-target direct heals is not a good idea. Even shamans have to budget, since at low gear levels, it's possible to spend enough mana on HW to prevent you from keeping HR, Riptide, and HST on cooldown throughout the encounter, especially in longer encounters.
Edited by Kaels on 3/14/2013 12:26 PM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Priest
8790
Every filler heal has a certain level of regen that makes it more or less mana neutral.

As kaels said, most healers don't have a small single target direct heal worth spamming. Disc won't ever spam heal outside of fishing for DA procs or trying to get weakened soul off someone for a small cost.

It's not shaman specific though.
Edited by Fereveralone on 3/14/2013 12:46 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Troll Shaman
17270
Getting up to the point in spirit where you can do the following:
Cast UL-HR nearly on CD
Cast HST on CD (often recalling with glyph of totemic recall)
Cast Riptide on CD
Cast HW as filler
...

That's the magic point for a shaman up to where spirit is extremely valuable for resto shamans.

After that, spirit's primary value becomes the very expensive (mana-wise / spirit-wise) upgrading of HW to HS/GHW/CH. And of course Mana Tide for other healers.

After that, most shamans elect to either stack more spirit for mana tide / more flexibility with big tank heals, or they elect to stack crit for larger riptide/HST/HR/HTT numbers and a smaller boost in regen. That's a raid size / your role within your healer core / personal issue.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Paladin
10855
I know that back in Dragon Soul I got to a point where Holy Light (The Paladin's smallest heal) was pretty much mana neutral.. and so I found myself using it as a filler spell especially because Beacon of Light transfers 100% of the heal to the Beacon target.. so I could keep healing both tanks AND still be ready to burst heal when needed...

Was some good times...
Reply Quote
92 Human Priest
5160
holy light on my pally is pretty close to mana neutral, and is pretty useful with beacon.

however on my priest i almost never use the "heal" spell.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Monk
5520
God forbid you try and actually cast surging mists lol (mana crash), but soothing mist can be channeled almost nonstop.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
7275
God forbid you try and actually cast surging mists lol (mana crash), but soothing mist can be channeled almost nonstop.


ughh, i had a bad ground in shadow pan monastery (they litterally would sit right on the outside ring that the last boss does). i thought i knew what a mana crash was, until i had to spam a couple of those... i was wrong... very wrong :(
Edited by Jarshie on 3/16/2013 6:02 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150
I'm at the point that Holy Light is mana neutral. HS is mana neutral (because of the cooldown), which combined with EF/WOG/LoD (Mana Free) is nice. Because of the 4 sec cooldown on HS, the global, 2 sec cast on HL, and global on EF/WoG/LoD, I can pretty much chain cast these all day without issue. It's just a matter of inbound damage.

HR, DL, and FoL are Mana Stupid. The problem is, I can't control inbound damage, so I have to use these.

Insight procs are the real trick. If you can get swings in, you'll stay topped off (when combined with Plea and racial).
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Priest
12960
03/14/2013 12:18 PMPosted by Druik
It seems I've gotten to the point in gear/spirit where my healing wave is more or less mana neutral.


No, it isn't. It costs the same it always did. If you hadn't bothered to cast it, you would have gained mana from your normal regeneration instead of spending it on Healing Wave.

The idea of a 'mana neutral' heal is a particularly pernicious form of mental error. You don't cast heals because you can. You cast heals because you need to cast them.
Reply Quote
100 Human Paladin
14120
03/19/2013 02:57 PMPosted by Medeyn
It seems I've gotten to the point in gear/spirit where my healing wave is more or less mana neutral.


No, it isn't. It costs the same it always did. If you hadn't bothered to cast it, you would have gained mana from your normal regeneration instead of spending it on Healing Wave.

The idea of a 'mana neutral' heal is a particularly pernicious form of mental error. You don't cast heals because you can. You cast heals because you need to cast them.


When healing, I cast Holy Light when the damage profile doesn't require more, and I'll overheal with Holy Shock for the point of holy power I gain from it. There's no point in casting Holy Light if no damage is going out though.

On my disc priest, I'd never cast Heal, because Atonement through Smite/HF is equivalent, just with damage added!
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
No, it isn't. It costs the same it always did. If you hadn't bothered to cast it, you would have gained mana from your normal regeneration instead of spending it on Healing Wave.

The idea of a 'mana neutral' heal is a particularly pernicious form of mental error. You don't cast heals because you can. You cast heals because you need to cast them.


Is this a joke post? How could you possibly misinterpret his post to this extent?
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150


When healing, I cast Holy Light when the damage profile doesn't require more, and I'll overheal with Holy Shock for the point of holy power I gain from it. There's no point in casting Holy Light if no damage is going out though.


I'll cast HL to start stacking Absorb shields on key people or "problem children" (aggro wh#$%s) during low damage times between HS refreshes as I build HoPo for EF's on the tanks, if my mana is good. If not I'm swinging for insight procs.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Priest
12960
Is this a joke post? How could you possibly misinterpret his post to this extent?


No - it's sad that you think it was a joke.

One of the most common mistakes healers make is presuming that dead time has to be filled with something or they're not doing their job.

Healers are not dps. You cast what you need to cast and nothing more. Once you learn this, quite a few of your concerns over mana will evaporate.
Reply Quote
90 Gnome Monk
7430
03/20/2013 12:56 PMPosted by Medeyn
Is this a joke post? How could you possibly misinterpret his post to this extent?


No - it's sad that you think it was a joke.

One of the most common mistakes healers make is presuming that dead time has to be filled with something or they're not doing their job.

Healers are not dps. You cast what you need to cast and nothing more. Once you learn this, quite a few of your concerns over mana will evaporate.


Unless you are doing trivial content there is generally going to be something to heal. Also, many healers have added benefits to casting their mana neutral spell even if the healing itself isn't specifically needed-generating shields, procs, secondary resources-for use later when the crap hits the fan. If you aren't OOMing there's no reason not to use your filler heal even in a mostly overheal situation. If you find yourself running out of mana then you obviously need to review your ability usage decisions.
Reply Quote
03/22/2013 02:24 AMPosted by Linnelle


No - it's sad that you think it was a joke.

One of the most common mistakes healers make is presuming that dead time has to be filled with something or they're not doing their job.

Healers are not dps. You cast what you need to cast and nothing more. Once you learn this, quite a few of your concerns over mana will evaporate.


Unless you are doing trivial content there is generally going to be something to heal. Also, many healers have added benefits to casting their mana neutral spell even if the healing itself isn't specifically needed-generating shields, procs, secondary resources-for use later when the crap hits the fan. If you aren't OOMing there's no reason not to use your filler heal even in a mostly overheal situation. If you find yourself running out of mana then you obviously need to review your ability usage decisions.


For the OP (shaman) casting healing wave as filler is not ideal even for its secondary benefits. Ancestral vigor is more easily and more efficiently maintained by riptide. The mana regen you gain from a healing wave crit in resurgence is not as much as you could gain from casting a telluric currents lightning bolt instead.

So, as far as a shaman goes, spamming healing wave when there is little to nothing to heal isn't optimal.

However, as you pointed out, if you are in a situation where there is next to nothing to heal you generally arent going to go oom anyways.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
16765
03/19/2013 02:57 PMPosted by Medeyn
The idea of a 'mana neutral' heal is a particularly pernicious form of mental error.


Doesn't mana neutral just mean the spell throttles your mana bar? In which case the term was used correctly by the OP.

The term mana-free would be technically incorrect though.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
6495
This thread is full of trolls who just want to correct people on the internet.

Yes OP, other classes have spells like this too. I can pretty much heal a 5 man and never go under 99% with "Heal" on my priest.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
16765
When reading through the thread, I actually thought this was one of the kinder ones this forum has seen.
Reply Quote
90 Goblin Priest
14695
Do all healers reach a point in gear where they have a similar option? Is this a shaman specific thing?


The option is a lie.

You can spam HW at 0 spirit or 20k spirit, it always costs the same. The idea behind the break-even point for mana cost/cast time vs. regen rate is a logical fallacy. Mana regen is about being able to have the mana to cast the most effective spells for the duration of any given encounter. I'm not saying there are never times to cast HW/heal/holy light/nourish/etc, but the idea that it becomes suddenly viable at an exact level of spirit is false. Just like rapture for disc doesn't just magically become worth going for at 9150 spirit (when you break even with pw:s cost). If you're going oom it probably just means you're sacrificing too much efficiency for throughput, and need to reanalyze what you're casting given your current level of regen.

If you were just wondering purely out of curiosity, then, as others have said, all healers have a moderately efficient single target heal.
Edited by Crzed on 3/22/2013 5:03 PM PDT
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]