Blizzard, your daily model hurts healers.

100 Blood Elf Priest
12745
03/21/2013 02:18 PMPosted by Indyana
Why would you need 476 for dailies?

Well, my warlock did them (even IoT) perfectly happily in his 437 greens, but (1) I'm a bad melee and (2) Ret sucks at low gear levels, so my pally gets roflstomped even on Golden Lotus in ~460 gear. I gave up on dailies permanently on that character after eight consecutive deaths from an unavoidable double pull.

And I have no clue how to play Prot, nor do I want to learn. I played it a bit in Cata, but it felt stupid then and I can't imagine it feels any less stupid now. The only tank spec I've ever been able to stomach was DW Frost tanking on my DK in Wrath.
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90 Gnome Priest
11895
03/21/2013 02:04 PMPosted by Kaels
It's already easy.

Play a paladin and say that. As far as I can tell, it's physically impossible to gear Ret past 476 without compromising your Holy spec. And even 476 would require an inordinate amount of time in 5mans or BGs.

He's technically correct.

Increased drop rates for T14 LFR means it is kinda easy to gear up an OS.
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100 Night Elf Druid
6150
03/21/2013 02:18 PMPosted by Indyana
On top of that I just go Tank for my healing off specs...it's way better for doing solo stuff.


On my druid I agree, but it's funny to hear this from a shaman.

All healers have lower DPS than other roles, but all that I have played still have enough to solo non-elite mobs, which is what most dailies consist of (questing too). Maybe some of the Tap to Faction bosses would give you trouble if there was literally nobody else fighting them, but that's not likely to happen on Isle of Thunder any time soon.

Anyway, healers also have excellent staying power. You can usually outlast and take down multiple mobs even in bad gear if you know what you're doing, and if you can't kill them you should definitely be able to get away and reset them (and next time get one at a time -- very few quests require you to tackle forced multipulls, except for the MoP mini-mobs with like 1/4 the HP of regular mobs and hardly any damage).
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12745
03/21/2013 03:01 PMPosted by Skootalloo

Play a paladin and say that. As far as I can tell, it's physically impossible to gear Ret past 476 without compromising your Holy spec. And even 476 would require an inordinate amount of time in 5mans or BGs.

He's technically correct.

Increased drop rates for T14 LFR means it is kinda easy to gear up an OS.

I probably should have added "without inflicting your horrible OS on an innocent group of strangers."
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90 Human Monk
11325
It's already easy.


Did you read what I actually posted? I mean, I actually detailed exactly why your ignorant response is flawed. I can't be any more clear than I already was.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12745
Guess it could have been a pvp thing that changed that. I remember at one point prot pallys in holy gear were doing well in arena.

Yep. They changed it in Wrath. My ex played a pally at the time, and got all manner of laughs out of prot healing.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11205
Anyway, healers also have excellent staying power. You can usually outlast and take down multiple mobs even in bad gear if you know what you're doing, and if you can't kill them you should definitely be able to get away and reset them (and next time get one at a time -- very few quests require you to tackle forced multipulls, except for the MoP mini-mobs with like 1/4 the HP of regular mobs and hardly any damage).


This is very true, but the problem that I'm reading a lot of and have experienced a bit of myself is: yes, it's doable. It takes ages, and without decent aoe abilities, there's very little benefit to pulling multiple packs and whittling them down, like you would with a tank spec. I'm certainly not on the bleeding edge of progression, so I can't speak to that experience. I will say that I WANT to experience most of this game, including the grindy bits, and I try to be fairly well rounded (except pet battles-I have no interest in those).

However, many nights, I only have an hour to play between when I get home from work and when I need to go be responsible and whatnot. I find myself thinking, "Do I want to spend the next hour poking a mob with denounce, or getting roflstomped in my bad ret gear? Nope."

I probably should have added "without inflicting your horrible OS on an innocent group of strangers."


This is why I can't bring myself to do LFD or LFR as ret :x
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90 Night Elf Druid
11915
Did you read what I actually posted? I mean, I actually detailed exactly why your ignorant response is flawed. I can't be any more clear than I already was.

I read your whining and reject your opinion.

Anyone can do dailys as dps with a 425 ilvl. You can buy BoE greens for gold or JP blues. It's not hard. I know some people are perpetually poor even though quest rewards give more gold than ever, so crafted gear is outside their budget. That doesn't matter because you don't need purples for the daily quests which are all easy.

Also, LFR will give you offspec items. The bosses will continue to drop tokens to exchange for tier gear. Once if you have the item for your main spec, the next time it drops you can get your dps piece.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
Also, LFR will give you offspec items. The bosses will continue to drop tokens to exchange for tier gear. Once if you have the item for your main spec, the next time it drops you can get your dps piece.


Yes, it will give you tier pieces even if you already have the piece. But um...that does not an offspec set of gear make. :) You need other things, too. Weapons, boots, belts, bracers, necks, rings, trinkets...
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12745
03/21/2013 05:12 PMPosted by Mitimem
LFR

03/21/2013 05:12 PMPosted by Mitimem
bosses

03/21/2013 05:12 PMPosted by Mitimem
drop tokens

Hahahahahahahahahaha
(breathes)
hahahahahahahaha lolol...wait, you're not done?
03/21/2013 05:12 PMPosted by Mitimem
the next time it drops

OMG LOL! You're good!
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90 Night Elf Druid
11915
OMG LOL! You're good!

Apparently you haven't noticed the increased drop rate.

But more importantly, you don't need ilvl 476+ gear to do dailys.

Yes, it will give you tier pieces even if you already have the piece. But um...that does not an offspec set of gear make. :) You need other things, too. Weapons, boots, belts, bracers, necks, rings, trinkets...

Are you compiling a list of BoE's and JP items you should buy to fill out your set, because that's all it takes.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
Are you compiling a list of BoE's and JP items you should buy to fill out your set, because that's all it takes.


I am a Priest. My offspec uses the exact same gear as my main spec. However, as you can see, I am Disc/Holy, which means I don't have a DPS offspec. Now, that doesn't mean that I have a problem doing dailies. However, to say it's "quick" and "easy" in bad gear is kind of silly. :-\ Dailies are MUCH easier now that I have gear.

Also, on my characters that DO have a DPS or tanking offspec, it just seems painful in the lower level gear. Especially on my Shaman.

My point, however, is that tier gear isn't really "a second set" if you don't have things like weapons and trinkets. So you really cannot say "you can collect a second set in LFR while healing" when that just isn't true.
Edited by Tiriel on 3/21/2013 9:48 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Paladin
10855
03/21/2013 09:22 PMPosted by Mitimem
OMG LOL! You're good!

Apparently you haven't noticed the increased drop rate.

But more importantly, you don't need ilvl 476+ gear to do dailys.

Yes, it will give you tier pieces even if you already have the piece. But um...that does not an offspec set of gear make. :) You need other things, too. Weapons, boots, belts, bracers, necks, rings, trinkets...

Are you compiling a list of BoE's and JP items you should buy to fill out your set, because that's all it takes.


True.. you DON'T NEED ilvl 476+ gear to do daily quests...
But The lower your gear is, the longer it will take you to complete the dailies you want to complete..

If you want to do Daily quests at an optimal rate then your going to want to have decent gear..
And despite what people have said Retribution Paladins do scale with their gear
So yeah.. you CAN pick up a set of 324 Green gear...
But your only kidding yourself if you somehow think that it will make you face pawn all the quest mobs that need to die...

And for many of us the choice is: Pick up an inferior set for our off spec.. or use our decent Main-spec gear which quite frankly would out DPS our OS gear...
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12745
Apparently you haven't noticed the increased drop rate.

Nope...can't say that I have. My warlock is 2 for 36 since the patch. My paladin is 2 for about 43 since launch.
Edited by Kaels on 3/21/2013 11:37 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
11915
Oh you poor Holy Paladins. Suck it up. I've played this toon as Resto/Feral since early Cata. It's not hard keeping a set for both specs and they don't share gear at all. You can talk all you want about druids can use Balance and Shaman can use Elemental, but many of us choose not to because it's not remotely difficult to have an agility set so we play the spec we prefer. I have yet to go out of my way to obtain OS gear and with an average ilvl of 472 even the new dailys are a breeze.

I also have a Paladin I don't play often with very crappy gear and have no trouble doing dailys. With pre-raid gear you can do 40k dps, which is plenty to kill quest mobs. Daily mobs are normally around 300-500K HP with a few mini-boss mobs with 2000-3000K. If you can't quickly blow through quest mobs as Ret with a 458 ilvl then you need to spend some time learning the class mechanics.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12745
With pre-raid gear you can do 40k dps

Maybe you can. I do about 23k.

If you can't quickly blow through quest mobs as Ret with a 458 ilvl then you need to spend some time learning the class mechanics.

I don't want to learn Ret class mechanics. I want to play a healer. If I absolutely must play a spec that I hate to do some part of the game content that's required to optimize my healing, I expect it to be so trivial that I can faceroll it without learning anything whatsoever about the spec (like leveling was). Dailies, especially 5.1 and later dailies, do not meet that bar.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
03/21/2013 11:37 PMPosted by Mitimem
Oh you poor Holy Paladins. Suck it up.


This is really, really not helpful or constructive.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
12580
03/21/2013 11:59 PMPosted by Tiriel
Oh you poor Holy Paladins. Suck it up.


This is really, really not helpful or constructive.


His tone may be a bit gruff, but he's right. Several options exist to help with this *problem,* and the fact that some of these whiners don't want take the initiative to utilize at least one of them shouldn't be acceptable to anyone, quite frankly.

I need no help blazing through dailies AE-style, but I can tell you for certain that if I saw a healer offering their services in chat, I'd grab them in a second.

I just hope they can keep up, because I won't be inclined to wait for them. Dailies are a chore that I really try to push through as quickly as possible.

Riôt
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12745
His tone may be a bit gruff, but he's right. Several options exist to help with this *problem,* and the fact that some of these whiners don't want take the initiative to utilize at least one of them shouldn't be acceptable to anyone, quite frankly.

If I decide to play a DPS or tank character, I can do absolutely everything in the game, from soloing old content to dailies to scenarios to dungeons and raids, in just one spec with one set of gear. I can level a destro lock and be a destro lock at all times in all places. I may not be perfectly optimal in every fight; if I want to optimize, I may want to learn a second spec of the same role and possibly collect some alternate gear pieces and/or reforge when I switch specs. But I'm always adequate, and if I do dual-spec, I'm still playing the same role and my offspec feels like the same class.

If I decide to play a healer, I am not only suboptimal but incredibly bad at certain significant parts of the game unless I have a second spec. This was always true, but in MoP, one of those parts of the game suddenly became a key component of what I'm expected to do to optimize my healer.

When I complain about this, I'm told to use my offspec. Just in using an offspec of a different role at all, I'm already going beyond what a DPS or tank has to do to optimize their mainspec.

Then when I say my offspec sucks, I'm told to get gear for it; this is a major time investment that DPS and tanks don't have to make.

Then when I say that even with gear that's supposedly adequate, solo content is still miserable, I get told that I have to actually research and learn to play this melee offspec that I never wanted to play in the first place?

No. I'm sorry. That is not reasonable. That is not acceptable. I am willing to push the button to switch into Ret. I am willing to put the buttons from the "Core Abilities" tab of the spellbook on my bar and hit them when they light up. I am not willing to go to EJ, look up a Ret rotation, and practice for hours on a training dummy to try to become a good ret paladin. I don't want to be a ret paladin! I don't like the spec, I'm not interested in the spec, I think MMO melee is awful and I hate it and I wish it were dead. I rolled a paladin to play Holy.

What you're telling me is basically the same as "you have to go learn to play a rogue to grind dailies on to gear up your priest." No. No, I will not. And I am not unusually lazy or whiny for thinking that's unreasonable. It is not whining to ask for a way to progress my character on the same terms as everyone else: in the spec that I want to play, in the gear that I've earned by playing that spec.
Edited by Kaels on 3/22/2013 2:02 AM PDT
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