Sandstorm next for the nerfbat?

90 Undead Rogue
4535
You can really complain all you want, but it's a pretty average weather.

I do think though that sunlight and arcane winds need improvement. Those really suck or are bugged atm.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12545
You can really complain all you want, but it's a pretty average weather.

I do think though that sunlight and arcane winds need improvement. Those really suck or are bugged atm.


Arcane Winds is bugged to hell and back. It doesn't provide its benefit in several cases. The few effects that are supposed to benefit from Arcane Winds aren't particularly good even if they did receive the benefit of Arcane Winds (which they don't).

Sunlight is different. Sunlight is a fantastic weather effect that only appears on terrible pets. Replace a Darkmoon Hatchling's middle ability with Sunlight and I guarantee you'll be seeing it in comps. Give Magic Lamp the choice between Sear Magic/Sunlight, and you'll have people complaining about the OP-ness of the Lamp. And so forth.

The reason Sandstorm is 'overpowered' in some people's minds has nothing to do with the effect and everything to do with the Anubisath Idol. It has a decent basic attack, a damage reduction effect and an evasion effect piled on top of the Humanoid ability and a pile of healing.

But you don't see people complaining about Grinder with regards to Sandstorm, since Grinder's attacks are at cross-purposes with Sandstorm.
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This thread makes me sad, because I adore my silithid hatchling...
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90 Blood Elf Priest
BnB
14295
The only reason people don't like sandstorm is because stall is a more boring/slower meta than the burst of 5.1. The lesson to learn is that not liking something does not make it overpowered.

If you think sandstorm is on the same level as FFF or chew you are either lying to yourself or delusional.
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90 Goblin Shaman
15185
Except its not overpowered.. I'm not even sure you know what overpowered means based on your statement that Sandstorm is worse than the FFF's original ability set.

"Bring a decent Magic type" is far less egregious than "Bring 2+ pets to control the weather and avoid any DOTs or multi-hit moves", and that was against something that was clearly bugged bypassing Mechanical and Undead racials... and it was STILL easier and less demanding to respond to.

The reason Sandstorm is 'overpowered' in some people's minds has nothing to do with the effect and everything to do with the Anubisath Idol. It has a decent basic attack, a damage reduction effect and an evasion effect piled on top of the Humanoid ability and a pile of healing.
But you don't see people complaining about Grinder with regards to Sandstorm, since Grinder's attacks are at cross-purposes with Sandstorm.

If something is format-breaking just by being on a pet whose typing/moves aren't counter-productive, then it IS overpowered. You may as well say abilities that benefit from going first should only be on slow pets.

My issue with Sandstorm isn't Anubisath, though Anubisath being debatably overpowered is largely because of Sandstorm. A short-cooldown long-duration weather effect shouldn't just outright cripple half the pets and moves in the game. No single move in the game except Sandstorm has that kind of impact.

The only reason people don't like sandstorm is because stall is a more boring/slower meta than the burst of 5.1. The lesson to learn is that not liking something does not make it overpowered.

Actually, you're ALMOST right for once, except for the part where you're completely wrong and rudely antagonistic as usual. The only reason people don't abuse Sandstorm's obvious overpoweredness IS because it creates a slower stalling environment. Sure it's overpowered as hell and building around it is practially a guaranteed win against 95% of possible random builds, but it's also very slow. Even if I wanted to abuse it, I'd just get bored at dragging things out so long.

Unfortunately, being boring isn't ACTUALLY a balance check on something being blantantly overpowered. It's very obviously and clearly overpowered, it completely warps the entire metagame... the ONLY thing keeping it from the spotlight IS that it is boring and slow. That doesn't make it balanced, that just makes it unpopular.
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10 Pandaren Monk
0
Anubisath being better than pre-nerf FFF? LOL

The idol really isn't that OP. It's a good pet, sure, but it definitely doesn't "warp the entire metagame." There are plenty of top tier teams out there that can deal with Idol with no problems.

BTW Magic types weren't the counter to the old FFF. It just pounced them to death like any other type. Conflag was the counter.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12545
03/24/2013 03:33 AMPosted by Thundere
If something is format-breaking just by being on a pet whose typing/moves aren't counter-productive, then it IS overpowered. You may as well say abilities that benefit from going first should only be on slow pets.


You normally only see Stun effects on slow pets. And you don't see people whining about Living Sandling - they have both Sandstorm and a non-DoT set of attacks.

My issue with Sandstorm isn't Anubisath, though Anubisath being debatably overpowered is largely because of Sandstorm. A short-cooldown long-duration weather effect shouldn't just outright cripple half the pets and moves in the game. No single move in the game except Sandstorm has that kind of impact.


Shell Shield? Stoneskin? They're arguably better than Sandstorm in most cases since your opponent doesn't benefit from them.

Also, abilities like Sandstorm are actually counter-able. All you need is a single pet in your comp that can deal with it and you're set because there's no limitation on you swapping in that pet. If you're facing a Gilnean Raven, you'll get hammered for nearly 1000 damage before you even get to move if you try to swap in a 'counter'.
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100 Tauren Druid
17515

"Bring a decent Magic type" is far less egregious than "Bring 2+ pets to control the weather and avoid any DOTs or multi-hit moves", and that was against something that was clearly bugged bypassing Mechanical and Undead racials... and it was STILL easier and less demanding to respond to.


I think this is where many people will have difficulty taking whatever argument you're making seriously. The notion that, even if it were OP, Sandstorm is worse than FFF was is just absurd. What you're saying isn't even accurate. The reason the FFF was too strong wasn't because Wind-Up/Pump were bugged and ignoring ressurection racials (that was something that would be fixed no matter what was done with the FFF); it was too strong because it did a crazy amount of damage that one-shot most anything.

Also, when many people want to bring weather effects anyway (i.e., a Darkness team), having weather to turn off Sandstorm isn't a problem.

Actually, you're ALMOST right for once, except for the part where you're completely wrong and rudely antagonistic as usual. The only reason people don't abuse Sandstorm's obvious overpoweredness IS because it creates a slower stalling environment. Sure it's overpowered as hell and building around it is practially a guaranteed win against 95% of possible random builds, but it's also very slow. Even if I wanted to abuse it, I'd just get bored at dragging things out so long.

Unfortunately, being boring isn't ACTUALLY a balance check on something being blantantly overpowered. It's very obviously and clearly overpowered, it completely warps the entire metagame... the ONLY thing keeping it from the spotlight IS that it is boring and slow. That doesn't make it balanced, that just makes it unpopular.


And we're back to the main point; the fact that Sandstorm is not overpowered. It effects both sides equally, and you are able to turn it off if you choose (and many groups are running with their own weather effects anyway). The main thing its going to do that doesn't effect both teams equally is shut down DoT attacks and to a lesser extent multi-hit attacks. Something that uses bigger hits which easily overpower the idol's weak self-healing? Sandstorm won't do much to help you. I've also bolded part of what you said, because its a little silly. A team that you've put some thought into building synergistically has a good chance to win against most completely randomly assembled teams? SAY IT ISN'T SO.

One final thought, your entire point is based on conjecture. I don't think I've actually heard of anyone doing this specifically. Even if they did, there aren't really the pets for it. On the broom, Sweep is probably better than Sandstorm. I would assume Grinder doesn't even benefit from the Sandstorm, being an elemental; same with the sandling. Your only hope of people actually using this team seems to be the Idol (perhaps in multiples) and/or the Guardling that isn't even available till at least May. Both humanoid pets which probably isn't ultimately the best idea if it did catch on.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
BnB
14295
A short-cooldown long-duration weather effect shouldn't just outright cripple half the pets and moves in the game


It actually effects all of them, just like darkness does. You have a point in here somewhere champ?
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