muscle memory != atonement

100 Human Priest
18035
It looks to me that the hpm statements in the OP are comparing fistweaving to mistweaving hpm, and then saying priests are better because they always atonement. For hpm comparisons, atonement is a lot like fistweaving when you consider heal-spamming akin to mistweaving. The mana consumption of priests are still a little higher than monks after accounting saved gains from using chi as a resource, mana tea, and muscle memory.

But priests know this, which is why every priest stacks ludicrous amounts of spirit on everything.

I've relooked through a lot of the "discussion" here and this will be my last post.
Edited by Twistedmind on 3/18/2013 3:51 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Monk
8360
It looks to me that the hpm statements in the OP are comparing fistweaving to mistweaving hpm, and then saying priests are better because they always atonement. For hpm comparisons, atonement is a lot like fistweaving when you consider heal-spamming akin to mistweaving. The mana consumption of priests are still a little higher than monks after accounting saved gains from using chi as a resource, mana tea, and muscle memory.

But priests know this, which is why every priest stacks ludicrous amounts of spirit on everything.

my statements have been:
- that the monks atonement healing is 63% the healing per mana of mistweaving
- that priest atonement is (i havn't done the math, going off of my guild priest testimony) required for higher healing per mana.
- fistweaving = less healing; priest atonement = more healing

as for you mana claims, that is false.

jab + tp = 3% mana (factoring for chi and mana tea and muscle memory) for ~42000 healing = 4.6 hpm
smite = 1.89% with evangelism for ~ 60k healing (of what i've seen in priest videos) = 10.4 healing

so basically, everything you're saying is wrong

I've relooked through a lot of the "discussion" here and this will be my last post.

that's a relief
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96 Tauren Priest
10205
I've relooked through a lot of the "discussion" here and this will be my last post.


I'm sorry but your exiting comment just comes across as smug whether you meant it to or not. It makes you just seem pretentious, not going to lie. If you do not feel this thread has substance or is not looking at the issue critically enough just say it, it might do some good, definitely better than the quoted ambiguous and vague exiting comment.
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100 Undead Priest
10715
(i havn't done the math, going off of my guild priest testimony)


It is difficult to take you seriously when you openly admit that you have no idea what you are talking about, yet in spite of this you go on to make broad and sweeping comparisons based solely on this.
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90 Pandaren Monk
12990
And if you like doing damage from a ranged, you kind of should be playing a priest. It just seems like the points being made here are: the rotation is too unforgiving if I misclick; priests can weave between healing and dps easier because they're at range and archangel is a 'great' boost to their hps. But evangelism isn't always at 5 stacks, and archangel isn't as big of a boost as you think it is. What that means is atonements aren't always super mana efficient, and the sheer numbers priests can push are mostly being taken at a full 5 stacks evangelism or a fully consumed archangel. I could also see the argument being made that absorbs from crits are doing "more" healing, but archangel/atonement isn't a walk in the park.


I don't think anyone specifically desires to be doing "more" damage from ranged, just doing damage that is meaningful in melee, especially considering how much of our kit is based around it and effectively becomes useless at ranged. Most of the flaws you listed are superficial in lieu of the assertion that your kit is designed to switch with much greater efficiency and much less "commitment". The fact that you even consider your healing CDs and abilities part of both your Atonement and traditional healing kits that boost their effectiveness, and that it *is* useful and used on non-gimmick encounters, is a testament to this.

As I said, our ranged kit at best does nothing positive to our melee kit and visa versa, and at worst they actively hamper each other, and in turn affect the legitimacy of "switching modes" at all. Thus, one or the other is always going to be all but useless for prestigious situations (ranged healing in 5.1, meleeing in 5.2), when they were both presented as realistic raiding options prior.
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8 Dwarf Priest
0
I'm dismissing the "I accidentally hit Jab twice and now I'm out of mana" arguments not because I don't feel for you playing with 1 second globals and lag, but because all melee classes do damage this way so it's unlikely to change.


using this reason to dismiss this healer concern is about as terrible a decision as walking into traffic would be. i don't see any plausible way to buy into the premise this guy is selling, that encounters are based on the serious consideration of dps losing their resource, or even that if dps spend their resources badly the consequences are as serious as they are to healers.

this isn't to say dps, or anyone, can play terribly and still win though. just that generally healers make up a smaller % of the raid team, so if one screws up, you've lost more. in a 10-man for instance if one healer screws up, that can often be 50% of your healing team just made a serious mistake. its simply a much larger concern for healers.

so not that there should never be any negative consequences for a misclick, but blizz really needs to watch out when they make the consequences so severe for healers. honestly, their track record on class balance doesn't do them any favors when it comes to these issues. this is a new class, and people should want to play it. people should enjoy playing it. but instead of giving players options and freedom to take the class, and mix and match abilities how they want, they're essentially telling everyone "there is one pretty bland way to play this class from ranged, and now one pretty bland way to play it from melee. if you don't press these buttons exactly as a fistweaver, you are going to be terrible because that is how we designed it."

the thing is, its not as if jab-jab uplift was such an awesome style of play. the point is there was the option to seamlessly move between that and the melee abilities at any time, and back again, whenever the situation called for it. the way it is now, it is like the yare just trying to put gameplay in this tiny little box, where everyone plays the game exactly the same way, and that seriously appears to me, to be the result of a complete void of imagination on their parts, which is slowly bleeding out into the game and resulting in the total death of all personalized ways to play a class.

i mean i just hope this trend doesn't spread beyond what it already has, and would be nice if it reversed. its bad enough as it is to see what they are doing to the new class.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
8360
(i havn't done the math, going off of my guild priest testimony)


It is difficult to take you seriously when you openly admit that you have no idea what you are talking about, yet in spite of this you go on to make broad and sweeping comparisons based solely on this.


at 30k spell power
smite with holy fire = ~40k healing (~7 hpm w/ evan)
heal = ~40k healing (~7 hpm)

grace is irrelevant since you can just slap on one heal every 15 seconds and atonements are that target will get the bonus... this is also ignoring the + healing from mastery.... so yeah

just looking at smite and heal, which would probably be the alternative, they have the same healing per mana efficiency, except one does damage... this is also table math and spell ration based on wowhead data. This is ignoring archangel and the obviously superior holy fire healing to heal.

are you satisfied? prepared to present an argument yet? or will you continue to be useless in every thread you post in?

edit: i also couldn't help but notice you got !@#$ on by my guilds disc priest w/ equal gear
Edited by Imgandiloljk on 3/19/2013 2:19 AM PDT
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