The F is wrong with my hps?

90 Pandaren Shaman
12830
The last couple weeks I've been having some serious issues with hps in our 25 man raid. I'm very frequently last, hovering between 45-50ish thousand while the rest of the healers are 60k+.
The only fights I seem to do even marginally well on are Megaera and Durumu. Our Primordius attempts/kill tonight I couldn't seem to break 40k, this is using ascendence+ele mastery, keeping stream down, tide when raid needs help. Keeping HR on melee and chain heal was lackluster because they are constantly running around killing adds.

Generally in our raid I'm assigned to melee and am expected to drop HR and chain heal them. From what I've found this isn't working well since most of these fights melee are running back and forth and only stand in my rain for a few seconds.

So where is my problem? Our raid leader looked at logs and seemed to think I chain heal too much. Is it my stats? Gems? Glyphs/talents? I know looking at logs I should be doing much better, but despite a bunch of changes to try and help get my hps up it's just not happening :/

Here's a log of our last Megaera kill. Can anyone give me some advice here? Pleaaaase!

Edit cause I forgot to link the log http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-hcdwu0fockvaitq3/sum/healingDone/?s=725&e=1234
Edited by Alliene on 3/17/2013 9:34 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
7640
You're a shaman, better get used to it this tier.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
8360
You're a shaman, better get used to it this tier.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
8360
not enough riptide

to much chain heal

seemingly arbitrary amount of haste... you should be gemming/reforge spirit > crit > int

stalk glaciationz, he's one of the best US resto shamans
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90 Goblin Shaman
10345
i mean... on megeara i dont see any glaring problem. I see a disc priest spamming PoH/SS, 2 pallys 1 of which is clearly just EF'ing his way to victory... lot of absorbs there to push through.

7 healing ji kun just sounds painfully boring in general i dont know what to say about that. Still a lot of AoE heals and really shouldn't be any AoE damage unless you are doing platforms? And really just about everyone is better than a shaman for platforms...

durumu... 7 min+ kill and sub 2M from HTT seems odd to me. I know I lean almost too heavily on HTT... maybe with your healers you dont need it?

Primordius... theres about a 24 page thread above this that discusses the problems with healing fights like Primordius this tier. Seems like you could get more out of HST. Again more out of HTT. Definitely more RT. Definitely more single target heals... I see 14 HW cast and no HS/GHW. Only 18 ES hits (thats 2 casts).

You could do better in spots and your RL is right that chain heal in its current state is not worth spamcasting really under any circumstances but especially if you aren't following a RT and I find it hard to believe you are given the low RT healing. Even still, fights with burst single target damage (primordius) should require some burst single target healing. And even on AoE fights you are almost better off chain healing off a tank, or single targets on a tank while rain on melee... couple of spot riptides... and using chain heal sparingly.
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90 Night Elf Druid
15480
Not for nothing and it looks like you are swapping talents but not sure what you are going after with gemming haste then reforging out of it. I been messing with higher haste (3764) even though it is still inconsistant. Above that unless you are looking for the next tick of RT it is kind of counterproductive. Also your spirit is incredibley low. Not sure if that is hurting your HR uptime or not.

I find PE to be better that EF for 25 man content. You can glyph Fire Elemental and get it up twice per fight and one Earth Elemental in between. But that is really just a personal preference thing i guess.
Edited by Sadiemay on 3/18/2013 5:38 AM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
17270
If other healers are doing well to keep the raid at high health (mastery) you get owned. If other healers are getting the raid topped off completely (ELW/HR/RT) you really get owned.

Even Meg isn't a totally stacked fight, being able to immediately pop Light of Dawn / WG / Uplift after each poison bomb while you place a Healing Rain that gets largely - 60% overheal - is probalby the biggest issue.

Next week run it with 1 less healer and see if you do better.

Otherwise... riptide needs to be rolling on both tanks. Your riptide% at only 5% says on Meg that wasn't the case. You are the raid's only resto shaman, and keeping up the 10% health buffs on the tanks when it is easily possible is part of your "raid buff" responsibility. It is nearly as bad as forgetting to drop stormlash or mana tide.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
17990
you should be gemming/reforge spirit > crit > int


OP, please do a bunch of your own research into gemming, reforging, and stat priority before you believe any given black and white statement about what shaman *must* do stat-wise. Things are not always as clear as people make them out to be.

For example, the idea that intellect is always worse than a secondary stat needs more explanation. This tends to be most relevant to gemming, simply because secondary stats have double the budget on gems as primary stats. Thus a lot of healers will take an int flask and eat int food, but use spirit gems. However, for shaman, int still might be worse than spirit even at a lower ratio, given the way MTT works. Opinions seem to vary about this.

Additionally, there are many shaman who would find excluding mastery from the discussion of secondary stat priority to be a bad idea, and I don't know that I've ever seen any person stat that crit should be valued above intellect.
Edited by Taymage on 3/18/2013 2:03 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
15835

stalk glaciationz, he's one of the best US resto shamans


who is glaciationz and why should he be stalked lol wtf
Edited by Noxnzee on 3/18/2013 2:30 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12830
Thanks everyone, some very helpful stuff here! My gems are next on my list to fix, I just didn't follow through when I reforged. Keeping riptides on tanks is something I've been *trying* to do more consistently, sometimes there's so much shiz going on though I forget.

So in the mind of doing less chain healing, I was under the impression that HS was a huge mana hog? I don't use GHW that much because honestly even with tidal waves up the person is usually topped by the time it goes off, which is why I lean toward HW more.
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90 Tauren Druid
8435
If I might add something here...I suspect if you've seen a massive drop in your Hps compared to 5.1...

It's probably because you have 2 Resto Druids who were likely utter garbage in 5.1 and now are pretty good, particularly with shrooms in 25m.

Resto Druids have taken quite a leap in 25man, so someone else is going to have less heals.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12960
If I might add something here...I suspect if you've seen a massive drop in your Hps compared to 5.1...

It's probably because you have 2 Resto Druids who were likely utter garbage in 5.1 and now are pretty good, particularly with shrooms in 25m.

Resto Druids have taken quite a leap in 25man, so someone else is going to have less heals.

This is hardly the root of the problem.
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105
Aggregate logs for 25 man ToT show that the average Shaman is 35% behind the top healer on the average fight. In T14, that difference was only 10%. Simply put, Shaman are pretty much absolute garbage in terms of throughput this tier, and it isn't unexpected that you would be at or near the bottom and see a relative performance from from T14 to T15.
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90 Human Paladin
15450
You are healing with 2 paladins, a disc priest, 2 resto druid and a monk. You will be overhealing like crazy and that makes your numbers look bad. On that particular fight for example, healing rain is your no. 1 heal, which is typical for most shaman on this fight, and that spell was at 60% overheal. It is tough for Shaman right now. Especially in your case with 3 absorb healers. At least one of the paladin was specced into SS. If he was specced into EF, your numbers will look even worse. Your raid should probably go down to six healers. Either make one of the druid go boomkin or one of the paladin go ret.
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90 Night Elf Druid
11915
For example, the idea that intellect is always worse than a secondary stat needs more explanation. This tends to be most relevant to gemming, simply because secondary stats have double the budget on gems as primary stats. Thus a lot of healers will take an int flask and eat int food, but use spirit gems. However, for shaman, int still might be worse than spirit even at a lower ratio

Spirit falls into a special category for healers. A generalized statement is to say that Intellect > Spirit and is absolutely true in so far as you should always use gear with Intellect, trinkets excepted. What's special about Spirit is that how much you need depends heavily on your playstyle and raid comp. There's no magic number like a haste breakpoint or even a rough estimate of a good number. Some need a massive amount of Spirit and others have so little that you're shocked they don't OOM in the first two minutes, but it works for them.

Yes stat priority may be different on gems, but that's because the formula is different. The generalized stat priority of Intellect > Spirit > Mastery is dealing with the stat weights of a single point of those stats. It's entirely possible, but not implicitly true that 2 Spirit > 2 Mastery > 2 Crit > 1 Intellect or 2 Spirit > 2 Crit > 2 Mastery > 1 Intellect.

Additionally, there are many shaman who would find excluding mastery from the discussion of secondary stat priority to be a bad idea, and I don't know that I've ever seen any person stat that crit should be valued above intellect.

And many Shaman find the effectiveness of their Mastery decreased because their healing team has a high amount of absorbs thanks to Paladin and Disc. They then prioritize Crit for increased Resurgence and Ancestral Awakening procs, which allows for lower Spirit, which in turn can be reforged to Crit. A high Crit build can be surprisingly mana efficient and a very productive member of the healing team, especially in 10m. Even without a single point of Mastery from gear, enchants or gems Shaman will always have a rating no lower than 30%, which helps if they have to occasionally burst heal low health players. The viability of the Crit > Mastery build really does depend on the comp.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
8360

stalk glaciationz, he's one of the best US resto shamans


who is glaciationz and why should he be stalked lol wtf

the guy that ranks top 10 on a lot of fights on WoL

and by stalked i mean study all of his logs on every fight, look at his gear, his talents, his glyphs, etc.

OP, please do a bunch of your own research into gemming, reforging, and stat priority before you believe any given black and white statement about what shaman *must* do stat-wise. Things are not always as clear as people make them out to be.

i resto resto all of 5.1

03/18/2013 02:02 PMPosted by Taymage
For example, the idea that intellect is always worse than a secondary stat needs more explanation.

doesn't matter if you heal for 93487593847259839732845 if you can only do it once. That's the essence of stacking spirit and crit. Being able to have 100% activity and not going oom is very important to keeping health at a safe level

However, for shaman, int still might be worse than spirit even at a lower ratio, given the way MTT works. Opinions seem to vary about this.

i only go by opinions of people who have more progression than me, or outperform me on the meters, and all of them stack spirit crit

Additionally, there are many shaman who would find excluding mastery from the discussion of secondary stat priority to be a bad idea, and I don't know that I've ever seen any person stat that crit should be valued above intellect.

my understanding was that it is fairly undisputed that mastery is our worst stat. the ONLY time i have stacked mastery on my shaman was when we had to deal with a tank that would go from 100% to 20% in two hits constantly, at which point mastery would necessary to keep him up, but we booted him for that reason and mastery is back to being worse than crit and haste
Edited by Imgandiloljk on 3/18/2013 7:31 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
16345
If I might add something here...I suspect if you've seen a massive drop in your Hps compared to 5.1...

It's probably because you have 2 Resto Druids who were likely utter garbage in 5.1 and now are pretty good, particularly with shrooms in 25m.

Resto Druids have taken quite a leap in 25man, so someone else is going to have less heals.

This is hardly the root of the problem.


I'll leaf you with this- it may stem from the druid healing buff, but shammies are pretty lackluster because of the lack of stack-and-stay-stacked fights.
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90 Draenei Shaman
7640
50% mastery or close to is the approximation for most people. Anything above that (especially this tier with the lack of stacking and the spread mechanics) crit is extremely valuable for not only regen but for AA procs as Img stated. I've found LifeInGroup5 and Totemspot to be the best guides on what stats are best and when, because crit and mastery are only relevant to the content you are doing.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12830
I just wanted to note that Magaera is the only fight we run with 7 healers. One of the paladins (shennin) is normally our MT. Why the officers decided to run with 7 healers for this I'm not sure. All other fights we run with 6, and it's usually the 2 druids, priest, pally, monk, and myself. I originally respeced some of my haste into mastery and some into crit. I think at least for right now our raid still dips low enough on some fights that I get some use out of mastery still...

I'm interested to see how my #'s change tomorrow with more single target healing, and hopefully I'll be able to get more use out of HT. Right now I usually only get to drop HT when a RL calls for it :/
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90 Blood Elf Monk
8360
I just wanted to note that Magaera is the only fight we run with 7 healers. One of the paladins (shennin) is normally our MT. Why the officers decided to run with 7 healers for this I'm not sure. All other fights we run with 6, and it's usually the 2 druids, priest, pally, monk, and myself. I originally respeced some of my haste into mastery and some into crit. I think at least for right now our raid still dips low enough on some fights that I get some use out of mastery still...

I'm interested to see how my #'s change tomorrow with more single target healing, and hopefully I'll be able to get more use out of HT. Right now I usually only get to drop HT when a RL calls for it :/

i dont get people fixation on shaman mastery... i have yet to hear ONE compelling argument why mastery would trump crit on at least ONE fight
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